"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[Davy]

Son, let me take this chance to teach you something today that you might not have discovered yet with the Spirit of God. Thank you for allowing me to speak once again. ....

What you wrote after the above is mostly just canon fodder... strays off topic, and even shows conceit against God's Word, as if you assume you actually know what God's Word is talking about regarding Jesus of Nazareth as Immanuel (God with us).

In John 4, Apostle John said "God is a Spirit". Jesus Christ before... He was born in Mary's womb also was a Spirit, because He is part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. And that was already clearly proven that Jesus is part of The Godhead per that Hebrews 1 Scripture I showed.

Furthermore, the Matthew 1:21-23 Scripture is very clear, and needs no special interpretation. It speaks for itself showing that Jesus of Nazareth is GOD The Son. So your little 'wriggle' trying to go around that clearly written Bible Scripture that explains... the meaning of Jesus' Name "Immanuel" in Isaiah 7 is certainly showing your foolishness and your vain heeding of a CULT.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Short-sighted truth that seems to lack completeness.

Regarding John 5:23: Jesus was sent by his God and Father to fulfill God's will, and thus, honoring Yeshua is an act of obedience to God's command, not an acknowledgment of Yeshua as divine. Don't be so quick to the draw.

Read Yeshua's own statements regarding John 5:23, in John 5:19 and 5:30, where Yeshua denies equality with his God and emphasizes doing only what he sees his God, the Father doing.

The honor given to Yeshua is derived from God, and dishonoring Yeshua is seen as dishonoring God, not because Yeshua is God, but because he is God's authorized messenger or agent of our salvation.

And as I read your post, I see you ignored my advice to extent your reading past Hebrews 1:8 to know that Yeshua has a God as said many times in scripture. Hebrews 1:9 should do it.

God, his Father, speaking to the Son of God....
(Heb 1:9) You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows.

Why not look at the whole chapter?

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

>> Can you grasp what is said above???
God spoke to the prophets through and in His Son AND CREATED THE WORLD AS WELL. ( Also confirmed in Col 1:16-17). Jesus is God , Who in His preoncarnate self, spoke to them (as we see in Exidus 3:14). He reiteriterates this when He says, "I AM HE" in John 8:24, 28. You'll die in yours sins unless you believe that!

Jumping to vs. 8. Keep in mind the Father is talking about and to His Son for the remainder of the chapter.

8 But regarding the Son He says,

“Your throne, God, is forever and ever,
And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your companions.”

>>God the Father is speaking to God the Son. Then in the following verse the Father calls Him LORD. And reiterates that He is the Creator!<<

10 And,
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of Your hands;


Scratching you head? Confused? You need to get this right or else John 8:24 will bite you.

 

[Davy]

God did not come in human form; He sent His Son instead. It's so simple to understand; it's not hidden. Just read carefully what the Scriptures say and don't make wrong assumptions based on what other people have told you.

John 3:16 UASV+

(16) For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that whoever believes in him will not be destroyed but have eternal life.​

Jesus of Nazareth IS... GOD come in the flesh.

That was Apostle John's specific point in 1 John 4, that those who refuse to believe Jesus is GOD come in the flesh are not of God, but are antichrists.

 

[Davy]

Well you missed out that verse (John 3:16), so you're doing likewise! We can't quote every single relevant verse in the Bible when we comment on a topic - there are often too many verses to quote. That doesn't mean that we are picking and choosing. I picked a relevant verse, that's not difficult to understand, which does not harmonise with what you believe, so you should ask yourself, what does it mean? How does God giving His only begotten Son harmoise with your idea that God's Son is God (which is absurd!)?

That above is only making excuses to not heed The Word of God. Even in study of a highly technical subject, one does not simply 'forget' earlier methods and techniques learned, one's understanding instead BUILDS... to maturity and wisdom of the subject.

Thus it is EASY to recognize when people like you come here to smear the actual Word of God with your creating disagreement within God's written Word. How is that being done, you might ask? If a previous verse example that does not cover a detail given in a later Scripture, like John 3:16 which does not also cover the concept of Paul's falling away, that still does not mean to eliminate the IF conditions that Paul taught in his Epistles.

 

[Davy]

Better translations:

....

Nah, the KJV translation is just fine. You obviously haven't figured out who Apostle John is speaking about in John 1.

 

[JustMe]

Why not look at the whole chapter?

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

>> Can you grasp what is said above???
God spoke to the prophets through and in His Son AND CREATED THE WORLD AS WELL. ( Also confirmed in Col 1:16-17). Jesus is God , Who in His preoncarnate self, spoke to them (as we see in Exidus 3:14). He reiteriterates this when He says, "I AM HE" in John 8:24, 28. You'll die in yours sins unless you believe that!

Jumping to vs. 8. Keep in mind the Father is talking about and to His Son for the remainder of the chapter.

8 But regarding the Son He says,

“Your throne, God, is forever and ever,
And the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of joy above Your companions.”

>>God the Father is speaking to God the Son. Then in the following verse the Father calls Him LORD. And reiterates that He is the Creator!<<

10 And,
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the works of Your hands;


Scratching you head? Confused? You need to get this right or else John 8:24 will bite you.

Ronald, slow down and read all of it carefully as you are missing the context and some of the clauses in the process.

Look at your first part for example, God is not in the habit of inheriting things he already owns, although his immortalized son is...peace out

 

[JustMe]

What you wrote after the above is mostly just canon fodder... strays off topic, and even shows conceit against God's Word, as if you assume you actually know what God's Word is talking about regarding Jesus of Nazareth as Immanuel (God with us).

In John 4, Apostle John said "God is a Spirit". Jesus Christ before... He was born in Mary's womb also was a Spirit, because He is part of The Godhead of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. And that was already clearly proven that Jesus is part of The Godhead per that Hebrews 1 Scripture I showed.

Furthermore, the Matthew 1:21-23 Scripture is very clear, and needs no special interpretation. It speaks for itself showing that Jesus of Nazareth is GOD The Son. So your little 'wriggle' trying to go around that clearly written Bible Scripture that explains... the meaning of Jesus' Name "Immanuel" in Isaiah 7 is certainly showing your foolishness and your vain heeding of a CULT.

I see that you are not interested in understanding the word of God. More of the same head butting and obstinance, as a goat.

(Isa 7:14) Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa 7:14 is a the original foretelling of what you read in Matthew. You are just regurgitating what I've already said and have not written anything different that counters what I have just told you.

(Mat 1:23) The virgin shall be with child and shall give birth to a son; and they shall call his name Immanuel, which means God with us.

From your writings, such a wretched, ignorant and degrading attitude you have, one I guess speaks volumes to your true and fake 'Christian' identity.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ronald, slow down and read all of it carefully as you are missing the context and some of the clauses in the process.

Look at your first part for example, God is not in the habit of inheriting things he already owns, although his immortalized son is...peace out

This is and has been a futile argument with the Non-Trinitarians. I just hope for your sake, John 8:24 doesn't apply to you because you do not think Jesus is GOD. I have many Jehovah Witnesses in my family whom I love and so I am very hopeful the Lord does not regard equality with God as something you must grasp.
The Light of the World = God
The Bread of Life = God
The source of Life itself, physical and spiritual = God
The Alpha and Omega = God
The Resurrection = God
The Truth = God

 

[JustMe]

This is and has been a futile argument with the Non-Trinitarians. I just hope for your sake, John 8:24 doesn't apply to you because you do not think Jesus is GOD. I have many Jehovah Witnesses in my family whom I love and so I am very hopeful the Lord does not regard equality with God as something you must grasp.
The Light of the World = God
The Bread of Life = God
The source of Life itself, physical and spiritual = God
The Alpha and Omega = God
The Resurrection = God
The Truth = God

If there's one single area of truth that is needed to be reemphasized to you Ronald, it's this, that the Son of God is truly the Messiah of God, as a son of man, and not God himself. It is impossible for him to be both. It never makes any sense that God's Messiah is also God. That's it!

And we don't have to even couch your view and mine in terms of labels of what you and I might represent, as with the common "isms" flung around on this site and anywhere on any media format."

If and when you do understand this most critical point that Yeshua speaks through his Father, literally, as the Messiah, since his anointing on earth, and it is believed in faith in your heart then I know for certain that John 8:24 neve applies to you, ever.

This is my hope and love I give to you, that you know truly who is the Son and the Father...Amen

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If there's one single area of truth that is needed to be reemphasized to you Ronald, it's this, that the Son of God is truly the Messiah of God, as a son of man, and not God himself. It is impossible for him to be both.

I have a Spirit, soul and body. My spirit has been born again, since at birth it was dead. When my body dies, my spirit separates and goes to be with the Lord. So as I possess a physical body, I also have a spirit.
God is Spirit. Jesus' spirit existed before he emptied Himself into the womb of Mary. So at birth, He had both body and spirit, both human and God, Who came down, became flesh and dwelt among us.

Give it up dude, you are wasting your time and mine..All your talk will not convince anyone to come over to your side. All 2.6 billion are very assured of our view. It's an overwhelming hands down for The Deity of Christ, hallelujah and amen.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is and has been a futile argument with the Non-Trinitarians.

Just as it is with trinitarians.....if there was one unequivocal statement from either Jesus or his Father that they are two parts of one triune God, there could be no argument.
I have never seen one.

I just hope for your sake, John 8:24 doesn't apply to you because you do not think Jesus is GOD.

The Bible doesn’t say that Jesus is Almighty God, incarnate.
There are valid reasons for rejecting this doctrine that was not made official in the RCC until the 4th century. And why did it take over 300 years to make it official?
Why would an apostate church have to make it official, through much controversy, if it was a clear Bible teaching?

I have many Jehovah Witnesses in my family whom I love and so I am very hopeful the Lord does not regard equality with God as something you must grasp.

Philippians 2:5-11 has been touted as proof of the trinity, when it is no such thing.

The New Catholic Bible renders this passage.....
“Let your attitude be identical to that of Christ Jesus. Though he was in the form of God, he did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient to death, even death on a cross. Because of this, God greatly exalted himand bestowed on him the name that is above all other names, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should proclaim to the glory of God the Father:Jesus Christ is Lord.”

So what does it really say as opposed to what many want it to say?
Let’s take it apart....
What is God’s “form”? John 4:24 tells us that “God is a spirit”....so Jesus also was in “spirit” form before his human birth, as are all who dwell in the heavenly realm....and he “DID NOT regard equality with God as something to be grasped”. Which mean the exact opposite of what is assumed by those who base their opinions on flawed translation.
Is this a Catholic Bible fighting with Catholic doctrine?

What else does it say about Jesus as a man? He “humbled himself and became obedient” to death....became a “humble slave”.
To whom is God obedient? Can God become his own slave?
Acts 4:27, 30 call Jesus “God’s holy servant”....Can God be his own servant?

When Jesus had completed his mission, what did his Father do?
“God greatly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above all other names”.....
If Jesus was God, then he already had the Highest name there is. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)
How can God “exalt” his equal self?

“so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth”
That pretty much sums up all intelligent creation...those in heaven and on earth and even those in their graves who are brought back to life in the resurrection, will exalt the Son as their Savior.

Is “bending the knee” an act of worship or a mark of respect?

“and every tongue should proclaim to the glory of God the Father: Jesus Christ is Lord.”
So Jesus is “Lord” but not God.....and all the glory goes to the Father, not the Son.

Understanding what we read is better that reading into Scripture, what we assume to understand.

I have a Spirit, soul and body. My spirit has been born again, since at birth it was dead. When my body dies, my spirit separates and goes to be with the Lord. So as I possess a physical body, I also have a spirit.
God is Spirit. Jesus' spirit existed before he emptied Himself into the womb of Mary. So at birth, He had both body and spirit, both human and God, Who came down, became flesh and dwelt among us.

If you study original language words Ronald, you would understand that your “spirit” is not an entity that simply dwells within a fleshly body and can live a separate life apart from the flesh....and you would also understand what a “soul” is....these are two completely misunderstood words that facilitate belief in Christendom’s three foundational beliefs....the trinity, immortality of the soul, and hellfire.....none of which exist in Scripture...only in church interpretation.

If you don’t understand what resurrection is then you will easily be misled....Jesus taught resurrection, not immortality of the soul.....there is not a single “soul” in heaven. A “soul” is a living, breathing creature, not something that is “born again” whilst still in the flesh.

If I asked all those on this site what being “born again” means, how many answers would I get? If they don’t all agree, then who is making false claims? There is only one uniting spirit of God...Jehovah does not speak with a forked tongue....it’s the other fellow who does that.

Give it up dude, you are wasting your time and mine..All your talk will not convince anyone to come over to your side. All 2.6 billion are very assured of our view. It's an overwhelming hands down for The Deity of Christ, hallelujah and amen.

And therein lies the problem of overconfidence (1 Cor 10:12).....can the 2.6 billion be in error, when Jesus plainly stated that “few” are on the road to life? The “many” are speeding along the superhighway to death, never imagining that this is their destination. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23) Majority rules is a satanic deception. The devil clearly has the majority....are you among them?

Perhaps your JW relatives have the same prayer as you do.....should they hold their breath?

 

[bro.tan]

In (Rev. 12:7-9) (v.7) and there was war in heaven: Mi-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, (v.8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. (v.9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out unto the earth and his angels were cast out with him. Now even though we are reading this out of Revelation this war in heaven took place before man was created. Let's look at; (Luke 10:18-19) (v.18) and the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. (v.19) And he said unto them, I beheld SATAN AS LIGHTING FALL FROM HEAVEN. (The word beheld means; from the Strong Concordance; to be a spectator of, behold, consider, look on. That's correct; Jesus was right there and probably was the one that told Michael, to throw Satan out.

 

[TazzJazz]

You should always read some previous posts in the thread instead if just jumping in there. Usually the answer to your question was already presented.
Here In post #99, reveal the truth:

Revelation 5:13: All creation worships "Him (Father) who sits on the throne and the Lamb".
John 5:23: "That all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him".
Hebrews 1:6: The Father says, "Let all the angels of God worship him".

>>> Out Father honors and calls the Son God<<<

"But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God [Theos], is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom" Heb. 1:8

Please look at the surrounding verses of those Scriptures you quoted.
Many times, just the immediate context (maybe the chapter the quoted verse is in) will reveal a different aspect,
even contradictory, to the idea being proposed.The differing concepts
need to agree, to ensure we have an accurate understanding.

For instance, you quoted Heb.1:8. But in Hebrews 1the very next verse)9, and vs.3, they reveal a different picture than
what you are proposing.

Also the Greek word "proskuneo", rendered worship in most Bibles, doesn't only mean that.
At Genesis 23:12, the Septuagint uses "proskuneo" in reference to Abraham's action tpward the sons of Heth.
I guarantee you, Abraham wasn't worshiping them!

Hope you have a good day.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Please look at the surrounding verses of those Scriptures you quoted.
Many times, just the immediate context (maybe the chapter the quoted verse is in) will reveal a different aspect,
even contradictory, to the idea being proposed.The differing concepts
need to agree, to ensure we have an accurate understanding.

For instance, you quoted Heb.1:8. But in Hebrews 1the very next verse)9, and vs.3, they reveal a different picture than
what you are proposing.

Also the Greek word "proskuneo", rendered worship in most Bibles, doesn't only mean that.
At Genesis 23:12, the Septuagint uses "proskuneo" in reference to Abraham's action tpward the sons of Heth.
I guarantee you, Abraham wasn't worshiping them!

Hope you have a good day.

See post 122.

 

[keithr]

If a previous verse example that does not cover a detail given in a later Scripture, like John 3:16 which does not also cover the concept of Paul's falling away, that still does not mean to eliminate the IF conditions that Paul taught in his Epistles.

I've no idea what that means. It's just gobbledygook to me!

 

[Davy]

I've no idea what that means. It's just gobbledygook to me!

Well, I guess what I wrote is only for those who have the ability to think abstractly, because it is a deeper Bible understanding. So I'll make it more simple, so if you deny what I'm saying, it will make you look foolish.

In The Old Testament prophets, they spoke of an event called "the day of the Lord". In the Jeremiah 46 Chapter, God through Jeremiah warned Judah then about armies that would come upon them from Ethiopians, Libyans and Lydians, involving Egypt, which Egypt was a major power that Judah had put its trust in at those days, instead of heeding what God told Jeremiah.

Thus the following verse is clearly pointing back to that time, using the "day of the Lord" phrase...

Jer 46:9-10
9 Come up, ye horses; and rage, ye chariots; and let the mighty men come forth; the Ethiopians and the Libyans, that handle the shield; and the Lydians, that handle and bend the bow.

10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that He may avenge Him of His adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
KJV

That is written for back in Jeremiah the prophet days.

However... how is it that Apostles Paul and Peter also referred to a day of final destruction upon this earth at the END, using that same "day of the Lord" phrase? even though the days of Apostles Paul and Peter came MANY YEARS LATER than the days of Jeremiah??

Both of the following verses refer to a time at the very end of this present world... and even was still future to the days of the Apostles...

1 Thess 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
KJV

2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

OK then, do you see those events above in Paul and Peter's mention of the still future "day of the Lord"? Those contain events NOT mentioned by God through His prophet Jeremiah back in Jeremiah 46.

HOW then, do we settle that appearing discrepancy between Jeremiah 46 and what Paul and Peter said about that "day of the Lord"?? And God's Word is NOT contradicting itself by that.


Likewise, in John 3:16, Jesus there says nothing... about water baptism to go along with that Faith in Him. Yet other Bible Scripture does show getting baptized of water...

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV

The above was Jesus' command to His disciples when He sent them out in final to preach The Gospel. But He didn't mention that baptism in the John 3:16 verse.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Acts 2:41
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
KJV

Acts 8:12
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
KJV

Acts 9:18
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
KJV

Acts 10:47
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
KJV

So can we just OMIT all those above verses that include water baptism along with the Promise by Faith, just because Lord Jesus didn't mention water baptism in John 3:16?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you use a Greek interlinear with a good concordance, we see that the word used is “egō eimi” and it has a range of meanings....”egō” is “I”...and “eimi” can mean any of these definitions.....
“εἰμί eimí, i-mee'; the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic):—am, have been, it is I, was.” (Strongs)

So when Jesus answered a past tense question, he gave a past tense answer.....not “I am” but “I was” or “have been”.
John 8:58 has no connection with Exodus 3:15 at all....which in Hebrew says “I Will Be What I will Be”...not “I Am” as the meaning of God’s name.

I trust the translators of the NT.
Exactly because some words can have different meanings.

I AM is what Jesus replied.
And I've already stated what it means.

I WAS
I AM
I WILL BE

That doesn’t really answer the question, does it? If God is eternal then if the trinity is true, the son had no beginning either....yet the Bible says he did...and not just as a human.
Col 1:15 calls Jesus “the firstborn of ALL creation”...which makes him what Rev 3:14 says....”the beginning of God’s creation”.

The trinity has no beginning.
GOD FATHER always existed.
GOD SON always existed.
GOD SPIRIT always existed.

This is because the WORD OF GOD...THE LOGOS...cannot be separated from the Father.
The Spirit of God cannot be separated from the Father.

The three are one in nature, one in substance.
They all three always existed as one unit but in three persons.

Because YOU do not understand this does not mean make it untrue.

IF you believed the bible you'd believe the following:


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14​

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


The WORD was with God
and the WORD was GOD


The WORD became FLESH and dwelt among us.


As to Colossians 1:15,,,interesting that you left out the rest:

Colossians 1:15-
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Jesus is THE IMAGE of the invisible God.
By THE WORD were all things created.

The creator cannot be part of the creation.
The person that created the watch is not part of the watch.

This is repeated in

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.


The SON is the EXACT representation of Father's nature and upholds all things.

WHO upholds all things if not God?

Father created THOUGH the Son...
The Son, as the WORD has existed forever.

We will all have to do that...it’s not an option. But the Bible does clearly state in the words of Jesus that it won’t be the deluded majority. Why do only “few” find the right path? (Matt 7:13-14) while the majority will be stunned at their rejection? (Matt 7:21-23)

Well Auntie Jane...
I would suggest that you obey what Paul taught about Jesus:
BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Acts 16:31

The “falling away” that Jesus and his apostles foretold, took place many centuries before the Reformation, which did not unite Christians, but merely split them up into ever increasing denominations....and some even pretend to be “non-denominational” by avoiding difficult topics....”pretend it’s not there and it will go away” doesn’t really work with the truth....which can sometimes be very inconvenient.

Non-denominational means you don't identify with a church.
Nothing to do with doctrine.

The “Catholic” church is what Christianity became and as foretold, it went rapidly off the rails as soon as the restraining influence of the apostles was gone.
This apostasy is old....it’s nothing new. Roman Catholicism merely politicised the church and gave it a “holy” excuse for “unholy” political bloodshed.....witch hunts, and confessions extracted by torture.

You're obsesssed with the CC.

How in anyone’s imagination they can cling to a church with such a despicable history, is beyond me.

Thanks for the history of the CC you can be here on this Forum today.
Otherwise you'd be Islamic and speaking arabic.

 

[keithr]

In The Old Testament prophets, they spoke of an event called "the day of the Lord". In the Jeremiah 46 Chapter, God through Jeremiah warned Judah then about armies that would come upon them from Ethiopians, Libyans and Lydians, involving Egypt, which Egypt was a major power that Judah had put its trust in at those days, instead of heeding what God told Jeremiah.

...

However... how is it that Apostles Paul and Peter also referred to a day of final destruction upon this earth at the END, using that same "day of the Lord" phrase? even though the days of Apostles Paul and Peter came MANY YEARS LATER than the days of Jeremiah??

These are two different things, two different phrases. The Old Testament reference is to a day of YHVH, whereas the New Testament use of the phrase is referring to Jesus:

Jeremiah 46:10 LSV

(10) And that day [is] to Lord YHWH of Hosts A day of vengeance, To be avenged of His adversaries, And the sword has devoured, and been satisfied, And it has been watered from their blood, For a sacrifice [is] to Lord YHWH of Hosts, In the land of the north, by the Euphrates River.​

1 Corinthians 5:5 KJV

(5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

The 1 Thessalonians 5:2 verse is a continuation of 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 concerning Jesus returning for his bride - the resurrection and rapture of Christians, and his later return to establish God's Kingdom on earth.

OK then, do you see those events above in Paul and Peter's mention of the still future "day of the Lord"? Those contain events NOT mentioned by God through His prophet Jeremiah back in Jeremiah 46.

HOW then, do we settle that appearing discrepancy between Jeremiah 46 and what Paul and Peter said about that "day of the Lord"?? And God's Word is NOT contradicting itself by that.

They're referring to different events.

Likewise, in John 3:16, Jesus there says nothing... about water baptism to go along with that Faith in Him. Yet other Bible Scripture does show getting baptized of water...

Obviously believing in Jesus is the most important thing, and that is what Jesus mentioned.

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV

The above was Jesus' command to His disciples when He sent them out in final to preach The Gospel. But He didn't mention that baptism in the John 3:16 verse.

The original version of verses 19-20 just said, "Go, and (teach) them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever” (Dr. George Howard's English translation of Shem Tob's Matthew Hebrew Gospel). The baptism phrase was a later addition/corruption to add support for the man-made Trinity doctrine. So we can and should omit verse 19, apart from the word "Go".

So can we just OMIT all those above verses that include water baptism along with the Promise by Faith, just because Lord Jesus didn't mention water baptism in John 3:16?

We should not ignore any verses of Scripture (but we need to allow for corruptions of Scripture by translators and copiers).

 

[JustMe]

I trust the translators of the NT.
Exactly because some words can have different meanings.

I AM is what Jesus replied.
And I've already stated what it means.

I WAS
I AM
I WILL BE

The trinity has no beginning.
GOD FATHER always existed.
GOD SON always existed.
GOD SPIRIT always existed.

This is because the WORD OF GOD...THE LOGOS...cannot be separated from the Father.
The Spirit of God cannot be separated from the Father.

The three are one in nature, one in substance.
They all three always existed as one unit but in three persons.

Because YOU do not understand this does not mean make it untrue.

IF you believed the bible you'd believe the following:


John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14​

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.


The WORD was with God
and the WORD was GOD


The WORD became FLESH and dwelt among us.


As to Colossians 1:15,,,interesting that you left out the rest:

Colossians 1:15-
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Jesus is THE IMAGE of the invisible God.
By THE WORD were all things created.

The creator cannot be part of the creation.
The person that created the watch is not part of the watch.

This is repeated in

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.


The SON is the EXACT representation of Father's nature and upholds all things.

WHO upholds all things if not God?

Father created THOUGH the Son...
The Son, as the WORD has existed forever.


Well Auntie Jane...
I would suggest that you obey what Paul taught about Jesus:
BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Acts 16:31

Non-denominational means you don't identify with a church.
Nothing to do with doctrine.

You're obsesssed with the CC.


Thanks for the history of the CC you can be here on this Forum today.
Otherwise you'd be Islamic and speaking arabic.

GG, you mentioned, "I trust the translators of the NT. Exactly because some words can have different meanings."

In my opinion, you might not realize that over 90 percent of these translators share your religious beliefs and perspectives.

Indeed, words can have multiple meanings, but you should be aware that the specific words in question come from these very biased translators who intentionally selected words that fit their views, which apparently also align with yours.

Therefore, it’s understandable why you don’t object to these distorted and gross misrepresentations of meaning in English words, such as 'I am,' translated from Greek, which would not just likely differ, they would be quite different if translated directly from the original Hebrew.

The phrase 'I am' or its variants is a common expression without any special name significance. You have been duped into believing a lie.

Believing that this expression refers not only to YHWH but also to his Son is a serious mistake and a blatant falsehood.

That’s my two cents.

 

[Aunty Jane]

GG, you mentioned, "I trust the translators of the NT. Exactly because some words can have different meanings."

In my opinion, you might not realize that over 90 percent of these translators share your religious beliefs and perspectives.

Indeed, words can have multiple meanings, but you should be aware that the specific words in question come from these very biased translators who intentionally selected words that fit their views, which apparently also align with yours.

Therefore, it’s understandable why you don’t object to these distorted and gross misrepresentations of meaning in English words, such as 'I am,' translated from Greek, which would not just likely differ, they would be quite different if translated directly from the original Hebrew.

The phrase 'I am' or its variants is a common expression without any special name significance. You have been duped into believing a lie.

Believing that this expression refers not only to YHWH but also to his Son is a serious mistake and a blatant falsehood.

That’s my two cents.

Well said....without original word studies, the distortions become the truth that the majority accept.
History is repeating because the deluded majority do not accept that satan can do that to them....the Jews didn’t believe Jesus and his apostles for the same reason....humans fall for the same lies over and over again....never learning from the lessons of the past, they are doomed to repeat them.

The “trinity” is borrowed from ancient triads, that existed long before Jesus came to the earth.
Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called “God” with a capital “G”....because “theos” (god) doesn’t just mean Yahweh. (John 10:31-33)

Immortality of the soul is borrowed from Greek mythology and perpetuates the lie satan told the woman in Eden...”you surely will not die”.

And Hellfire is also of Greek origin, grafted over Jesus reference to the “lake of fire” which was never literal, but a symbol of eternal death. “Gehenna” pictured by the city’s garbage dump where refuse was thrown into the fire for disposal. Nothing alive was ever cast there.

They can never say that they were not told. (Matt 7:21-23)