"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[MonoBiblical]

We cannot say that God HAS wisdom...
we must say that God IS wisdom.
Wisdom is God.

Perhaps alwise, but is all wisdom itself God? Wisdom applies to human beings. Human beings aren't allowed to create Satan or order him to give Job boils, or even Valentinian confusion!

 

[MonoBiblical]

To CATHOLICS, Faith is believing and obeying God’s will.

This is a flat out lie. Faith alone is true if that is the Roman Catholic definition. Faith is not a good definition of pistis.

I know Catholics emphasize faith more than trust.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Paul did not state the proof was in the unity.....that is false. He was simply exhorting the church to be of one mind in that 1 Cor 1:10 verse.

When Paul said....in his first letter to the Corinthians...
“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Cor 1:3-19 NASB)

In order to retain “grace and peace” in any congregation, unity was key to keeping out the thoughts of men. If all remained in the teachings of the Christ, then no diversions or division would have occurred.....but an apostasy was foretold and Christendom believes that it never happened. What has resulted is exactly what Jesus warned about...a counterfeit faith that included every division you can think of.

What masquerades as Christianity today is not even close to the original.

I really don't quite know how to explain faith to you. Faith doesn't need "proof". And we can be going by faith and still make mistakes.....and if/when we do, God is able to correct us, as long as we are willing and teachable. This is not an exact science as many people would love it to be.

I know exactly what faith is as it is clearly stated in Scripture....
Heb 11:1...
“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (NASB)
Faith needs assurance based on evidence. Blind faith is a trap. It is bated with things that appeal to human wisdom....so it is divided into so many disunited denominational Christians, who are all vainly hoping that they are right. Where is the assurance of what they hope for if it is not clearly understood?

What is it that we see with eyes of faith that is not visible to our literal sight?

I see so many with sporadic appeals to Scripture when it is evident that they have no idea where it fits in the big picture. Unless we have a big picture of why we are here and what God intended for the human race at the outset, nothing will make a lot of sense.

What is your big picture Lizbeth? Why are we here, and why did God create us as mortal humans on this tiny, insignificant planet? Were we created to live this trouble filled life....only to have death at the end of it?

What is it all about?

 

[Aunty Jane]

the unity of ecumeincism is of anti christ . come not nigh its doors and heed not its love .
for its love is of a harlot . And it has infected most every single place now known to man .
And grows daily . So , YEAH THAT AINT THE UNITY WE SUPPOSED TO UNDER . NOT even close .

Amigo, what makes you think I am a supporter of ecumenism? Would I be a JW if I thought unity at all costs was how to be a Christian? If we don’t stand out as different to the world, and are no part of Christendom, then we may as well do what Judas did....reject Christ and die.

I was raised in Christendom and now I would not touch it’s teachings with a barge pole.
I find no unity at all with the teaching I was raised with....I studied the Bible and found out what Jesus really taught.

As one who is very vocal about Christendom, I am bemused by the fact that you still accept their primary doctrines. Have you studied the Bible carefully and the origins of those primary doctrines to see if Jesus really taught them?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

Are you aware that God became MAN?
Are you aware that when GOD BECAME MAN He was limited in His abilities??

This is where I find it difficult or rather impossible to accept your view here. Are you suggesting that the Eternal Word, God the Son suppressed His Deity and all that entailed in His activity for 9 months in the womb, saying to Himself, "Waiting, Waiting", and then as a babe and infant pretended that He could not have a Divine Conversation with Mary, but had to pretend to be a young human?

I have already quoted the following two verses, and there is no hint that his wisdom was directly derived from His Divinity, but rather from his education and growth in understanding:
Luke 2:40,52 (KJV): 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

And there are other OT passages that speak about the source of his wisdom and also the education of Jesus:
Isaiah 11:1–5 (KJV): 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Isaiah 50:4–9 (KJV): 4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. 5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. 7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed. 8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me. 9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

Your understanding of John 1:14 is most incorrect if I may so so.
NOTHING was developed in John 1:14.

When it came to the time of His Ministry, John states that they beheld His Glory, and he explains this as that Jesus "was full of grace and truth". This is consistent with all of the above, in that he developed wisdom and understanding, he developed the fullness of the Divine Character.

The question that you cannot answer is this:
WHAT is the WORD mentioned in John 1:1 ?
THAT WORD becomes flesh.
WHAT became flesh?

The Word LOGOS has a wide range of meaning, but in part it speaks of the Character of God and also His Plan and Purpose which became focused and fulfilled in the birth, ministry, trials, suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus. John 1:14 speaks initially of how this LOGOS became revealed in the ministry of Jesus and his character.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Lizbeth]

When Paul said....in his first letter to the Corinthians...
“Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (1 Cor 1:3-19 NASB)

In order to retain “grace and peace” in any congregation, unity was key to keeping out the thoughts of men. If all remained in the teachings of the Christ, then no diversions or division would have occurred.....but an apostasy was foretold and Christendom believes that it never happened. What has resulted is exactly what Jesus warned about...a counterfeit faith that included every division you can think of.

What masquerades as Christianity today is not even close to the original.

I know exactly what faith is as it is clearly stated in Scripture....
Heb 11:1...
“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (NASB)
Faith needs assurance based on evidence. Blind faith is a trap. It is bated with things that appeal to human wisdom....so it is divided into so many disunited denominational Christians, who are all vainly hoping that they are right. Where is the assurance of what they hope for if it is not clearly understood?

What is it that we see with eyes of faith that is not visible to our literal sight?

I see so many with sporadic appeals to Scripture when it is evident that they have no idea where it fits in the big picture. Unless we have a big picture of why we are here and what God intended for the human race at the outset, nothing will make a lot of sense.

What is your big picture Lizbeth? Why are we here, and why did God create us as mortal humans on this tiny, insignificant planet? Were we created to live this trouble filled life....only to have death at the end of it?

What is it all about?

You're reliance on the carnal mind is evident and that is why you don't understand things of the Spirit. We're to walk by faith (which is of the Spirit), not by sight. And this is why we also need to test the spirits. But there is no point discussing this with you.

 

[saved by grace 101]

We can all make up excuses for believing or not believing what is generally accepted by Christendom’s many denominations.....but these excuses are not accepted if we are genuine students of the Bible, and not just sponges absorbing “theology” from a corrupted religious system.


Go back to the first century and see the parallel.....the majority of the Jewish people accepted what was served up to them by their religious leaders....it was hundreds of years of adopted teachings and traditions along with blatant departures from their Scriptures....but taught to them as Scriptural truth.

Jesus came to set things straight but the environment was hostile.

It was the majority who rejected the truth he taught, whilst a minority accepted his teachings and became his disciples.

We have the same situation again...an accepted but corrupted religious system is dictating the beliefs and practices of the majority, and telling any who dispute them that they are being misled.....who was misled in Jesus’ day? It was the misinformed majority, and when Jesus was to return, it was going to be the same situation again.

He said that “few” would be found on the road to life, whereas the majority would be on the wrong road, to “destruction”....(Matt 7:13-14)....in spite of having a lot of company, that destination is not something anyone would choose willingly.

Those who choose badly will pay the price....so we need to make informed choices, not ones imposed by a divided and disagreeing religious system. The devil can make black look white and vice versa....can we tell the difference?

Getting back to the verse I quoted. To me, Jesus was saying, if someone seeks glory for God, rather than any praise for themself, they would be a man of truth and there would be nothing false about them. That makes a lot of sense to me

 

[saved by grace 101]

Paul did not state the proof was in the unity.....that is false. He was simply exhorting the church to be of one mind in that 1 Cor 1:10 verse.

I really don't quite know how to explain faith to you. Faith doesn't need "proof". And we can be going by faith and still make mistakes.....and if/when we do, God is able to correct us, as long as we are willing and teachable. This is not an exact science as many people would love it to be.

A well known evangelist once said:
''Faith begins where logic ends''

 

[Hiddenthings]

A well known evangelist once said:
''Faith begins where logic ends''

An interesting statement. If it is applied to miracles, then perhaps it holds true; however, if the evidence of God is found in creation, then it does not. Blind faith is not the biblical model, as Scripture tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

 

[saved by grace 101]

An interesting statement. If it is applied to miracles, then perhaps it holds true; however, if the evidence of God is found in creation, then it does not. Blind faith is not the biblical model, as Scripture tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

We live by faith not by sight 2Cor5:7
Paul gave the example of Abraham. He believed God that he would have a son, even at his age. Logic said he could not, but faith believed

 

[Hiddenthings]

We live by faith not by sight 2Cor5:7
Paul gave the example of Abraham. He believed God that he would have a son, even at his age. Logic said he could not, but faith believed

Correct however what makes up that faith?
Did you read the Bible?
Did you look upon Creation?
Did you like David behold the written book of Creation and learn? The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork?
Did that work create in you a Spiritual Person who holds to Spiritual visions of the future.
All of this provides evidence that calls for faith in an unseen God, faith that itself could not exist apart from the evidence.

 

[saved by grace 101]

W

Correct however what makes up that faith?
Did you read the Bible?
Did you look upon Creation?
Did you like David behold the written book of Creation and learn? The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork?
Did that work create in you a Spiritual Person who holds to Spiritual visions of the future.
All of this provides evidence that calls for faith in an unseen God, faith that itself could not exist apart from the evidence.

Well personally, I did not have faith in God because of what was made, I just believed
The evidence is there, as you said, but that evidence did not cause me to believe

 

[Hiddenthings]

W

Well personally, I did not have faith in God because of what was made, I just believed
The evidence is there, as you said, but that evidence did not cause me to believe

If you read Psalm 19, you see two books: the Book of Creation and the Book of the Law (the Word). Together, they create in a person a new book of life. The kind of faith you are speaking of is the end result, the finished work of these two books. It is impossible to truly believe in God apart from them; faith cannot arise from nothing, it is simply impossible.

 

[saved by grace 101]

If you read Psalm 19, you see two books: the Book of Creation and the Book of the Law (the Word). Together, they create in a person a new book of life. The kind of faith you are speaking of is the end result, the finished work of these two books. It is impossible to truly believe in God apart from them; faith cannot arise from nothing, it is simply impossible.

Im only being honest with you, I did not consider creation when I believed in God and His son and accepted Christ as my saviour. But are we thinking about two different things?
Isn't Paul talking about our walk with God, wasn't the evangelist. You don't need faith, if you can understand something by logic, would you agree?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Im only being honest with you, I did not consider creation when I believed in God and His son and accepted Christ as my saviour. But are we thinking about two different things?
Isn't Paul talking about our walk with God, wasn't the evangelist. You don't need faith, if you can understand something by logic, would you agree?

God’s truth is logical, meaning it can be perceived and understood through rational thought. Even a simple command like ‘Do not kill’ is logical, and breaking this law can have disastrous consequences for the person who transgresses it. By obeying that command, honoring life and even loving your enemies you are expressing faith in God. Though you cannot see Him, your actions demonstrate that you live as if He exists.

It's a challenging question.

Romans 2:14–15 “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

A unbeliever can obey God's Law but they do not have faith as faith requires

11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:6.

Faith is the complete acceptance of all God has promised (Rom 10:16,17); it is the means of salvation (Eph 2:8)

 

[Hiddenthings]

@saved by grace 101

Faith is an act of honor toward God, and it requires time to exercise. God made “great and precious promises” to the fathers and tested them by withholding the timing, requiring them to wait patiently. As Scripture says, “And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise” (Hebrews 6:15). Likewise, let us not grow weary under a similar test: “a patient continuance in well doing” is the revealed principle of our acceptance (Romans 2:7). This involves enduring a long period with nothing to rely on but confidence in God’s pledged word, that is, faith “without which it is impossible to please Him” (Hebrews 11:6). Through this process, we are prepared to join the tried sons of God and, at last, rejoice together in the Lord: “Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him; let us be glad and rejoice in His salvation” (Isaiah 25:9).

 

[saved by grace 101]

God’s truth is logical, meaning it can be perceived and understood through rational thought. Even a simple command like ‘Do not kill’ is logical, and breaking this law can have disastrous consequences for the person who transgresses it. By obeying that command, honoring life and even loving your enemies you are expressing faith in God. Though you cannot see Him, your actions demonstrate that you live as if He exists.

It's a challenging question.

Romans 2:14–15 “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them.

A unbeliever can obey God's Law but they do not have faith as faith requires

11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:6.

Faith is the complete acceptance of all God has promised (Rom 10:16,17); it is the means of salvation (Eph 2:8)

And faith is a gift from God, which I just accept/believe.
Maybe Im just a simple person, and see things differently to you

 

[Hiddenthings]

And faith is a gift from God, which I just accept/believe.
Maybe Im just a simple person, and see things differently to you

You must be careful that your faith is not blind....do you understand why?

 

[saved by grace 101]

You must be careful that your faith is not blind....do you understand why?

Was Abrahams faith blind when he was prepared to offer his son as a sacrifice, the son through whom God had promised a nation would come?
I would call that blind faith, though I accept you may not

 

[Hiddenthings]

Was Abrahams faith blind when he was prepared to offer his son as a sacrifice, the son through whom God had promised a nation would come?
I would call that blind faith, though I accept you may not

Abraham had many encounters with the angel up to that point and was repeatedly preserved and delivered despite his own failings.

As I said it's impossible for faith not to have evidence.

Was Isaac himself an answer to prayer?
Did logic suggest for the promises of God to eventuate Isaac must live!

Hebrews 11:17–19 (ESV): “By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, ‘Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.’ He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.”

Abraham believed in the resurrection from the dead (no such thing as an immortal soul!)