Beslan

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Tyrel

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Jan 16, 2007
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(kriss;19306)
Well if we lived in other times I might agree but its time to wake- up time grows shorttake your head out of the sand and face reality you better start learning who we are dealing with. http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/al-mahdi.htmlhttp://al-mahdi.atspace.com/dajjal.html
With all due respect, as one who was almost Muslim, and as an evangelist who has worked primarily with Muslims, I have to say, my head is far removed from the sand.
 

Tyrel

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Jan 16, 2007
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Dear Amy,Here is an example;(Wakka;19292)
Those monsters raped and killed school children in Beslan!
 

Amy

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Aug 7, 2007
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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19332)
Dear Amy,I can understand where you are coming from. However, when the Crusades happened people taught that the Bible clearly allowed for the Chosen people of God to exact his judgment. Thus, since Israel had lost that rite, and the Church had become that institution, the Church had the right to wage war. This is not something we today would consider to be true. However, the people of that age would have debated with us greatly. While I can understand that you are pointing to these things because you think that the violence is irrevocably a direct result of the teachings of Islam, I think that you are in the wrong for more than one reason.First, though I agree with your interpretation of the Qur'an, there are many Imam's who would debate those passages, and who, in their own eyes, have practiced their religion to the fullest, without ever having done the things depicted in your pictures. What I am saying is that, while your point is perhaps valid, I think you are attacking the uncivilized world, not Islam. Islam's teachings, just as Christianity's, are interpreted first, then taught. In my eyes, you are attacking Islam, because of the interpretation of Third world Muslims.Again, while I mostly agree with your interpretation {though Jihad requires that no women or children [or innocents] be killed}, what are you proving here to us Christians?Think about who is reading these things. There are some Christians, who are far removed from Islam and know little to nothing about it. These posts will only help them be less accepting and loving towards Muslims. Furthermore, they have been given a grossly inaccurate picture of Islam as a whole. Then there are some Muslims, who are not drawn any closer to Christ, but are either hurt, or simply think it's ridiculous to portray Islam in such a light because of the Third World.What you posted, while I agree is true, I argue is misleading for the Christians who know little about Islam, along with not being valid points to bring up against Islam in so far as debating is concerned.I myself have not had the opportunity to go to the middle east. My x-pastor has, but that's not me. Perhaps one day I will, though I doubt it. The Muslims I have spoken to and evangelized, are those here in Canada. They know their religion as I know mine. Just as when one of their friends would attack me with the question of the Gospel of Barnabas, and they put their heads down in shame, I also put my head down in shame when one brings such a weak point as this against Islam.You cannot attack Islam on the grounds that people have killed other people in the Third World, many of whom were Muslim. That is ridiculous.My point is that your posts do not do anything good. They don't make Christians more prepared to tackle the falsehood of Islam. They don't make Christians more ready to evangelize. They don't make Christians more aware of the Religion itself. They don't bring Muslims closer to considering the truth of the Gospel.I see nothing useful or good in your posts except an innocent purity, or zeal. Zeal perhaps misused. Now, please understand, I don't mean to insult you or come off abrasive. However, I would never send a Muslim to you if this is all you would present to them. I would never send a Christian wishing to learn about Islam to you either. I generally tell Christians to go to Muslims and ask them about their faith. Ask for a Qur'an and they will gladly give you one, then you can study it for yourself, and if you need help, I'm here. That's what I tell people.I do not mean to be insulting. I simply am stunned and saddened by your posts. Not because they aren't true, but because these are the points you bring up against Islam. I don't know what you've been through, but if a young girl was raped by a Priest and for the rest of her life argued that the Church is evil because of sex scandals and the like, their points would be just as invalid {except that, as you are correct in saying, the source of your examples is likely the old interpretations of the Qur'an itself}. The fact that Muslims have different interpretations means that different interpretations are possible, and thus the Qur'an doesn't necessarily teach that. You can attack the interpretation of Islam in the Middle east with these points, but you cannot tackle Islam as a whole with these points. Even if you could, would you truly wish to approach the subject this way? Is this the best way you have to do this? Have you found no manner more effective and above all loving?All I am saying is that I believe you are feeding hate. What love do you see in your posts? I myself see no love. Please don't take offense. I do not come to offend. I simply want to understand how in the world you consider what you are doing is 'Christian'. Is this how Jesus would have approached it? I can't really get my head around it. You are an intelligent Christian who knows Islam seemingly inside out. How can you be convinced that the manner in which you are preaching is appropriate? How can you be convinced that this manner will bring clarity like the dawn? You aren't even bringing it back to Christ as the central theme. You seem, to me, to simply be attacking Islam for the flaws you see. How? Why? I don't understand it. Is putting Islam down leading anyone closer to Christ? Have you seen Muslims react positively to this? NO; it's not about numbers or pleasing man, but if by the end the Muslim isn't angry with Christ, but instead is upset at what you have said, perhaps you didn't do an awesome job. If nobody has ever reacted by coming closer to the Truth, then perhaps you are pushing them away.Now, you don't have to listen to me. If you are convinced that the manner in which you are teaching Christians, and evangelizing Muslims, is correct, then ignore me. I, however, am likewise convinced that these posts will never and would never, save by some miraculous act of God, bring any Muslim closer, or bring any Christian clarity.~Truth without love is brutality.
Nowhere, I repeat nowhere in bible it says we need to defend God and everywhere in Islam, it dose. You have weak knowldege about Christianity and none what so ever about Islam. You just know muslim version of Islam, all good stories shared with you by your friends. Have you ever made an effort to know the truth or go to these people who suffer and hear them cry?You don't care about those who suffer in other parts of the world. You don't want anyone to talk on their behalf. Not one line that you have said was in the favour of those who lead miserable life because of this cult. You just want to waste time making useless speeches on behalf of some muslim friends you have in your safe world. Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan !Truth can be misleading is the joke of the century that I have heard. It is you who is really naive and living in a cocoon. Truth is, you should be ignored and I would really appreciate that you ignore my post in future by not showing up in them.
 

Amy

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Aug 7, 2007
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(thesuperjag;19312)
I agree with you dear sister Amy. No flesh should stop anyone from telling truth. As telling the truth is not come from the flesh, but by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:17) Amy, you are doing a marvelous job in exposing Islam right where it needs to be done. Hey, we all may have different talents.
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...Some same and some different talents. At the same time, The Body should work together. And we should not give up on people,
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as there is still time to repent for everybody...I repeat WE NEED TO WAKE UP!Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Thank you so much for your encourangement my little brother :pray:As long as their are people in the world who want to know the truth, I shall be always at service for them.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Can this world get any more sad at all? This is getting completely out of hand and untrue...Dear BT...First of all, How can Catholic be Christians if they don't study the bible, yet let the church (literal building) be their authority?Secondly, do you not know that Islam tortured truth, also murdering, fornication,...and all that bad stuff to people...that the Word says that I posted on this topic on page 2?Thirdly, obviously, it sounds like you want to do nothing, and just let evil take over.Men loves darkness rather than light.
 

Tyrel

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Jan 16, 2007
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(Amy;19337)
Nowhere, I repeat nowhere in bible it says we need to defend God and everywhere in Islam, it dose. You have weak knowldege about Christianity and none what so ever about Islam. You just know muslim version of Islam, all good stories shared with you by your friends. Have you ever made an effort to know the truth or go to these people who suffer and hear them cry?You don't care about those who suffer in other parts of the world. You don't want anyone to talk on their behalf. Not one line that you have said was in the favour of those who lead miserable life because of this cult. You just want to waste time making useless speeches on behalf of some muslim friends you have in your safe world. Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan !Truth can be misleading is the joke of the century that I have heard. It is you who is really naive and living in a cocoon. Truth is, you should be ignored and I would really appreciate that you ignore my post in future by not showing up in them.
How sad.Dear Amy,I care very much that Every Muslim in the world comes to Christ. I also care about the suffering in the Third World, and everywhere else right now.I do not think your implications that I don't know Christianity well is unfair, and comically contrary to reality. My study of Islam, is certainly incomplete. However, I am not ignorant. I do not make this appeal for any past Muslim friends, or present. I make this appeal for you Amy. I am not hurt personally. My Muslim friends would not pay much attention to you once they realized how illogical you are choosing to be, and they'd probably tell me to give up on you, as many of my Christian brothers who have observed your posts already have. Call me stubborn, but I see a great deal of potential in you. For now, I will leave you with this to mull over;Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan ! Try evangelizing anywhere without love.I hope you rethink what you said. When you are calm, please let me know.Dear Superjag,(thesuperjag;19340)
Can this world get any more sad at all? This is getting completely out of hand and untrue...Dear BT...First of all, How can Catholic be Christians if they don't study the bible, yet let the church (literal building) be their authority?Secondly, do you not know that Islam tortured truth, also murdering, fornication,...and all that bad stuff to people...that the Word says that I posted on this topic on page 2?Thirdly, obviously, it sounds like you want to do nothing, and just let evil take over.Men loves darkness rather than light.
1. Catholics are zealous Christians, who study the Bible, the history of the Church on earth, the history of the Jewish people, the writings of tradition and many other things. They are most certainly Christians.2. Islam is a lie. However, to attack it based on what Muslims have done is ridiculous. If a man suggested something perposterous, I would not discredit his point by showing what a poor family man he was, but rather I would attack what he claimed.3. I don't understand how me saying this is not the best way, is me saying there is no way. I want to do something every day. However, this path is not loving. It is not righteous. It is a temptation. Don't buy into it. Muslims aren't evil, and Islam is simply false. Don't demonize things.First it's the Muslims are monsters. Then it's the Catholics aren't Christian because I disagree with some of their doctrines. Then it's the Devil authored the different Translations of the Bible, save for the one I read.Calm down and try to observe in love. Understanding will follow.In hope, Tyrel.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.Do you know the meaning of this verse allah is not our god, mohammad is not our prophet. Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. supporting false religions that worship false gods, cohorting with the enemies of godAll religions are not OK with God.Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Now if you want to defend idol worshipers,false religions fine but dont chastise those that preach truth because its unpleasant or politically incorrect
 

Tyrel

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Jan 16, 2007
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Kriss, Do you know the meaning of those verses?The first, is if anyone is recognized as a Christian, do not acknowledge him as such, so that your rebuke might wake him up to the realization, and thus save him. Paul, the writer of this, went to all gentiles, went to their temples, and preached to them lovingly. I have already pointed to Acts 17, when Paul was in Athens. He went to their temples, he observed their religion, and THEN he explained the Gospel, using the TRUTH already found in the Religion. This is my approach with Islam.However, do not apply your first verse to Muslims. They are not called our brothers. They recognize that they are not Christian. To not sit with them, is like not going to the drunkards and Tax Collectors, because they are unholy company to sit and eat with. Jesus even went and ate with a gentile, in his house. Recall Isaiah 65:5. Apply that to unbelievers, to pagans, to tax collectors and prostitutes, to rapists and murderers. We are to love them. The verses from revelation, I can't decide if you're applying them to me, or the Muslims. Muslims aren't cold in their religion. Amy would even argue that the fact that they practice it so well is the problem. They are wrong, not lukewarm. If you're applying it to me, I won't defend myself. Think what you will of me, but know that you've never met me, and I've studied this faith longer than you know. You have no Idea how cold or hot I am. My suggestion, and my practice, is to not make rash judgment calls about a person who you've only communicated with anonymously.{also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah, Dieu, God, Elohim. These are synonymous. They are just in different languages. YHWH, is not.}I am most certainly not chastising Amy because she is boldly speaking the Truth, or because it's considered politically incorrect in the United States {which I DON'T reside in or care for} to talk about it. I am Canadian, and I talk about these things all the time. However, I rebuke the manner in which she is presenting the material.As I said, Truth without love is brutality. This is why the Scriptures command clearly;"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"~1 Peter 3:15Gentleness is not what I see. Respect I have not seen in anything posted. Gentleness and respect. Why do we preach with this? Why do we practice "Apologia" like this? Because Truth without Love is Brutality.Time to stop demonizing them. They aren't "pagan", they don't worship a "false god" or "false gods", they simply have a false prophet. However, they have so much in the Qur'an leading them towards Christ. It's incredible. If only one would stop to show them. Like in Surah Yusuf, where we can prove that the narrative is more "Christian" than even the biblical account, and points to the fact that Jesus died on the Cross. I use the Qur'an to lead them to Christ. I do not attack Islam on the basis of what Muslims have done. Those Muslims may have thought they were doing the right thing, but the Muslims everywhere else who didn't do that often don't agree. If we are to preach to them, then do it LOVINGLY. I will reiterate for emphasis:Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan !Try evangelizing anywhere without it!
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19350)
Kriss, Do you know the meaning of those verses?The first, is if anyone is recognized as a Christian, do not acknowledge him as such, so that your rebuke might wake him up to the realization, and thus save him. Paul, the writer of this, went to all gentiles, went to their temples, and preached to them lovingly. I have already pointed to Acts 17, when Paul was in Athens. He went to their temples, he observed their religion, and THEN he explained the Gospel, using the TRUTH already found in the Religion. This is my approach with Islam.However, do not apply your first verse to Muslims. They are not called our brothers. They recognize that they are not Christian. To not sit with them, is like not going to the drunkards and Tax Collectors, because they are unholy company to sit and eat with. Jesus even went and ate with a gentile, in his house. Recall Isaiah 65:5. Apply that to unbelievers, to pagans, to tax collectors and prostitutes, to rapists and murderers. We are to love them. The verses from revelation, I can't decide if you're applying them to me, or the Muslims. Muslims aren't cold in their religion. Amy would even argue that the fact that they practice it so well is the problem. They are wrong, not lukewarm. If you're applying it to me, I won't defend myself. Think what you will of me, but know that you've never met me, and I've studied this faith longer than you know. You have no Idea how cold or hot I am. My suggestion, and my practice, is to not make rash judgment calls about a person who you've only communicated with anonymously.{also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah, Dieu, God, Elohim. These are synonymous. They are just in different languages. YHWH, is not.}I am most certainly not chastising Amy because she is boldly speaking the Truth, or because it's considered politically incorrect in the United States {which I DON'T reside in or care for} to talk about it. I am Canadian, and I talk about these things all the time. However, I rebuke the manner in which she is presenting the material.As I said, Truth without love is brutality. This is why the Scriptures command clearly;"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"~1 Peter 3:15Gentleness is not what I see. Respect I have not seen in anything posted. Gentleness and respect. Why do we preach with this? Why do we practice "Apologia" like this? Because Truth without Love is Brutality.Time to stop demonizing them. They aren't "pagan", they don't worship a "false god" or "false gods", they simply have a false prophet. However, they have so much in the Qur'an leading them towards Christ. It's incredible. If only one would stop to show them. Like in Surah Yusuf, where we can prove that the narrative is more "Christian" than even the biblical account, and points to the fact that Jesus died on the Cross. I use the Qur'an to lead them to Christ. I do not attack Islam on the basis of what Muslims have done. Those Muslims may have thought they were doing the right thing, but the Muslims everywhere else who didn't do that often don't agree. If we are to preach to them, then do it LOVINGLY. I will reiterate for emphasis:Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan !Try evangelizing anywhere without it!
First off, wow, you are so based off of what Yahshua said in the bible. Secondly, Yahshua was not being gentle on occasions. He was not sweet and kind on those occasions...And you dare to test Christ? And you can't see the FACT that the Qu'ran has twisted truth. A false prophet is certainly not of God and Christ.Lastly, not only you are rubuking my sister, me and others.. you, BT are rebuking YHWH and Yahshua's words...In fact He doesn't need defense as He knows who is going to win.This goes for EVERY TRUE CHRISTIANS that knows this wicked truth of Islam.(ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS)
Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offence unto us, thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19350)
Kriss, Do you know the meaning of those verses?The first, is if anyone is recognized as a Christian, do not acknowledge him as such, so that your rebuke might wake him up to the realization, and thus save him. Paul, the writer of this, went to all gentiles, went to their temples, and preached to them lovingly. I have already pointed to Acts 17, when Paul was in Athens. He went to their temples, he observed their religion, and THEN he explained the Gospel, using the TRUTH already found in the Religion. This is my approach with Islam.However, do not apply your first verse to Muslims. They are not called our brothers. They recognize that they are not Christian. To not sit with them, is like not going to the drunkards and Tax Collectors, because they are unholy company to sit and eat with. Jesus even went and ate with a gentile, in his house. Recall Isaiah 65:5. Apply that to unbelievers, to pagans, to tax collectors and prostitutes, to rapists and murderers. We are to love them. The verses from revelation, I can't decide if you're applying them to me, or the Muslims. Muslims aren't cold in their religion. Amy would even argue that the fact that they practice it so well is the problem. They are wrong, not lukewarm. If you're applying it to me, I won't defend myself. Think what you will of me, but know that you've never met me, and I've studied this faith longer than you know. You have no Idea how cold or hot I am. My suggestion, and my practice, is to not make rash judgment calls about a person who you've only communicated with anonymously.{also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah, Dieu, God, Elohim. These are synonymous. They are just in different languages. YHWH, is not.}I am most certainly not chastising Amy because she is boldly speaking the Truth, or because it's considered politically incorrect in the United States {which I DON'T reside in or care for} to talk about it. I am Canadian, and I talk about these things all the time. However, I rebuke the manner in which she is presenting the material.As I said, Truth without love is brutality. This is why the Scriptures command clearly;"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"~1 Peter 3:15Gentleness is not what I see. Respect I have not seen in anything posted. Gentleness and respect. Why do we preach with this? Why do we practice "Apologia" like this? Because Truth without Love is Brutality.Time to stop demonizing them. They aren't "pagan", they don't worship a "false god" or "false gods", they simply have a false prophet. However, they have so much in the Qur'an leading them towards Christ. It's incredible. If only one would stop to show them. Like in Surah Yusuf, where we can prove that the narrative is more "Christian" than even the biblical account, and points to the fact that Jesus died on the Cross. I use the Qur'an to lead them to Christ. I do not attack Islam on the basis of what Muslims have done. Those Muslims may have thought they were doing the right thing, but the Muslims everywhere else who didn't do that often don't agree. If we are to preach to them, then do it LOVINGLY. I will reiterate for emphasis:Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan !Try evangelizing anywhere without it!
Say what you want you are 100% wrong you play with the devil you get burnt and if you believe this statement {also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah, Dieu, God, Elohim. These are synonymous. They are just in different languages. YHWH, is not.}you made dont tell me how much you know and yeah I know exactly what I posted, if you dont recognize Gods laws you dont follow our God In my book loving them means not encouraging them to follow a false God If they cant handle the truth so be it God will handle itfuthermore they have one idea convert to Islam or die show me that in Gods word.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Allah - the Moon God The Archeology of The Middle EastThe religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre- Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre- Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.The reader must know that Ismael was a Hebrew. Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites. " In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon- god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see: Deut. 4:19;17:3; II Kngs. 21:3,5; 23:5; Jer. 8:2; 19:13; Zeph. 1:5, etc.) When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period. A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms." During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists. The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al- ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being." This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god. Al-Kindi, one of the early Christian apologists against Islam, pointed out that Islam and its god Allah did not come from the Bible but from the paganism of the Sabeans. They did not worship the God of the Bible but the Moon-god and his daughters al-Uzza, al-Lat and Manat. Dr. Newman concludes his study of the early Christian-Muslim debates by stating, "Islam proved itself to be...a separate and antagonistic religion which had sprung up from idolatry." Islamic scholar Caesar Farah concluded "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews." The Arabs worshipped the Moon-god as a supreme deity. But this was not biblical monotheism. While the Moon-god was greater than all other gods and goddesses, this was still a polytheistic pantheon of deities. Now that we have the actual idols of the Moon-god, it is no longer possible to avoid the fact that Allah was a pagan god in pre-Islamic times. Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky? CONCLUSION The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm Further information: thoroughly study the links in this file and also in The Cult of the Moon God The Vatican and Islam Yeshua Communications Network. Copyright 1997-8, All Rights Reserved.http://www.yeshua.co.uk
 

Tyrel

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Say what you want you are 100% wrong you play with the devil you get burnt and if you believe this statement {also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah, Dieu, God, Elohim. These are synonymous. They are just in different languages. YHWH, is not.}you made dont tell me how much you know and yeah I know exactly what I posted, if you dont recognize Gods laws you dont follow our God In my book loving them means not encouraging them to follow a false God If they cant handle the truth so be it God will handle itfuthermore they have one idea convert to Islam or die show me that in Gods word.
Dear Kriss,That's incredible. Absolutely unbelievable. You still choose to not only disregard what I say in it's entirety as "wrong" because I disagree with Amy, but you dare to judge me? I don't mind, myself, but who are you? I've not once encouraged Muslims to push forward in falsehood. I have not once suggested that we shouldn't evangelize. This irrational lashing out at me is undue, and it your accusations don't even come close to being accurate. Absolutely mind boggling... Alright,Systematically then;(kriss;19355)
if you dont recognize Gods laws you dont follow our God
Are you now suggesting that I'm not Christian? What laws have I not followed through to the end? Or, are you saying that they, who don't recognize YHWH's laws and Truth, aren't trying to follow him? There are many Christian sects who are very very mislead. We don't all agree on what God's laws are. If the theif on the cross died without knowing much or anything about the Gospel, was he not still giving himself to the True God? The Pharisees worshiped the real God, did they not? Were their doctrines right? It would be ridiculous to say that they were pagans because they didn't follow God properly.(kriss;19355)
futhermore they have one idea convert to Islam or die show me that in Gods word.
Generalization. Not true of a great majority of them. I mean an overwhelming majority. (kriss;19355)
In my book loving them means not encouraging them to follow a false God If they cant handle the truth so be it God will handle it
Lukewarm comes to mind. Why are you giving up on them so easily? "If they don't accept my rebuke, that's that, they aren't saved"? What kind of attitude is that?Let me share something with you I hope will help you open your eyes.I had organized a Jesus Awareness Week event at my College. There were many Muslim girls who came in asking questions, and being quite polite about it. However, there was a strange group of Pentecostals there. They often surrounded and encamped these shy girls preaching to them, while ignoring some of the neo-pagans and just average non-religious people walking right by. I saw, to my heartbreak, that many of these Muslim Girls left crying. I was a bit detained because I was already preaching to a group of people, and keeping a friend who calls himself "the dark lord" in check, because he is as intelligent as me, and I didn't want him debating with any other Christians there but me. Just the same, when I got the chance, I went to the nearest of the Muslim girls and listened in on the conversation. They were saying that Islam puts women down, and she should break free of the evil religion. Of course, she was very hurt by this, and responded "no, that's not how it is.." Then proceeded to give an apologetic explanation of the Qur'anic passages. However, the attacks persisted, and they would divulge on examples such as some events in the Middle east. I eventually stepped in and sort of told the Christians to stop attacking her unfairly. They weren't evangelizing, as I found out afterwards. They were trying to boldly preach the Truth, so that the Muslim would either leave the event and no longer bring satanic teachings into that place {which they were not}, or would realize the truth of what they said and convert on the spot. I even took two other Muslim Girls, who were surrounded and yelled at by a crowd of about 20, out from the area where the event was taking place. Sure, the people yelling were yelling true things such as "Jesus walked on Water" and "Islam is a lie". That doesn't mean there was any Gospel in what they preached. The true Gospel comes with Love and Integrity in the highest! However, once we found a place away from the event and I was talking to them, and we were getting somewhere, and they may have even come to Christ, the pastor of this group and much of his college level youth, had found us and reinstated the yelling again. They shut me up and yelled at her until she was crying. This one was strong though. She was solid, and not moving. She argued through tears, and every time I tried to stop them from yelling senselessly, hoping the spirit would magically bring her to Christ, they simply shut me up again. I waited until I had a chance to speak, my head against a pillar, almost crying because of this .. this evil my fellow Christians had done to these two girls. I simply replied what I've been replying here again and again; "Truth without love is Brutality". I was ignored... Truth without love.. Is Brutality!In MY book, Kriss, it says to love them.
 

Tyrel

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First off, wow, you are so based off of what Yahshua said in the bible. Secondly, Yahshua was not being gentle on occasions. He was not sweet and kind on those occasions...And you dare to test Christ? And you can't see the FACT that the Qu'ran has twisted truth. A false prophet is certainly not of God and Christ.Lastly, not only you are rubuking my sister, me and others.. you, BT are rebuking YHWH and Yahshua's words...In fact He doesn't need defense as He knows who is going to win.This goes for EVERY TRUE CHRISTIANS that knows this wicked truth of Islam.
Yeshua was only harsh and abrasive when it was quite due. He rebuked the Pharisees. Why? Because they were doing something wrong? NO! It was because they knew better, and were disgracing God. He didn't rebuke the worst of sinners, who didn't know what they were doing, and who didn't know God. However, when the pharisee's, the healthy, not the sick, when they stepped out of line, that is when the rebuke came.The story I just told Kriss.. There was one of the youth who later argued with me that all Muslims need to be rebuked. I almost couldn't believe my ears, as I can't believe what I'm hearing in this thread. She argued that Muslims have read the Gospel and know it. I explained that they have not. What they have is the Qur'an, and they read that and often reply that they've read the Bible because the Qur'an contains all that was important from the Bible. This Girl became angry with me and rebuked me. I suggested we need to love them. She didn't agree with what my notion of love meant {which is to not blindly throw truth into their face, but discuss and reason with them in gentleness and respect}, and so rejected me. Superjag, you aren't making sense. Of course I realize that the Qur'an is false. I realize they have a false prophet. The revelation that I seem to have missed is that we don't have to worry about them and can just spout whatever hurtful things we would like, and it's up to them to accept the truth. That all we have to do is present it. I missed that memo from God, so for now, I'll continue loving like Jesus did. Uncompromisingly. I will continue practicing evangelism as scripture tells us; with gentleness and respect.You aren't considering my posts at all, which is obvious based on your apparent lack of understanding for my position.
 

Christina

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Dear Kriss,That's incredible. Absolutely unbelievable. You still choose to not only disregard what I say in it's entirety as "wrong" because I disagree with Amy, but you dare to judge me? I don't mind, myself, but who are you? I've not once encouraged Muslims to push forward in falsehood. I have not once suggested that we shouldn't evangelize. This irrational lashing out at me is undue, and it your accusations don't even come close to being accurate. Absolutely mind boggling... Alright,Systematically then;
kriss;19355]Say what you want you are 100% wrong you play with the devil you get burnt and if you believe this statement {also - The Islamic Allah is not our God. The Christian Allah is. Allah said:
Now you are being riducolus here is my post what does it say?? 1.you are 100% wrong in your statement allah is god2.I was speaking of islam if they dont follow Gods laws they dont follow our God3.I say tell them the truth if they get angry let God handle it4.My knowledge is as Ive stated and it is truth whether you want to face it or not. Now what have I said that is so shocking and insulting to you???Now if you wanna convert Muslims feel free but dont come to a christian site and defend their god and and expect a kind reception.
 

Tyrel

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(kriss;19366)
Now you are being riducolus here is my post what does it say??1.you are 100% wrong in your statement allah is god2.I was speaking of islam if they dont follow Gods laws they dont follow our God3.I say tell them the truth if they get angry let God handle it4.My knowledge is as Ive stated and it is truth whether you want to face it or not.Now what have I said that is so shocking and insulting to you???Now if you wanna convert Muslims feel free but dont come to a christian site and defend their god and and expect a kind reception.
1. I don't believe I am, Kriss. They are simply mislead. However, just as the Pharisees were mislead, but believed in the God of Abraham, so too do they. In fact, they believe in the God of Moses. They believe in the God of the Gospel. The problem is, they have no Idea what the Gospel says about him. Those that do, believe it to be corrupt. Please read the Dear Abdallah thing I just posted in another thread.2. see previous response, and previous post.3. I am attacking just that attitude. That's not love. That's not Jesus. That's not the Gospel. Don't throw harmful truths out there.4. See your third point? That is what shocks me. For shame.I am not defending their God. I am not going to defend their religion. However, I just wish to suggest to you, and Amy, that we need first to understand and respect both Muslims and Islam, before we can truly love and reach them with the Gospel.I should think that a Christian forum would be the one place where this attitude would surely not be met with insult and judgment.In hope, Tyrel.
 

Christina

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you dont seem to understand it is my duty to educate christians to the fact this is the religion of the devil it is false religion that wants to wipe out christianity they call us dogs Jews and christians are their enemies they hate us want us dead or converted to thier false god it is Satans religion They want all jews wiped off the map. I tell them the truth and do as Jesus said dust off my feet and leave. DO NOT CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINEThey want all Gods followers dead or muslims now that might be fine with you but its not with me.2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?__________________
 

Christina

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2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
 

Tyrel

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(kriss;19375)
you dont seem to understand it is my duty to educate christians to the fact this is the religion of the devil it is false religion that wants to wipe out christianity they call us dogs Jews and christians are their enemies they hate us want us dead or converted to thier false god it is Satans religion They want all jews wiped off the map. I tell them the truth and do as Jesus said dust off my feet and leave. DO NOT CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINEThey want all Gods followers dead or muslims now that might be fine with you but its not with me.
I am in awe. Do you really think this of them? Such Binary black and white portraits are almost always wrong. This isn't even generally true! Even if you should decide to not cast "pearls before swine", treating them as the swine, why then would you simply preach truth, without gentleness and respect? I am telling you from experience that they are not far from the Gospel at all. The problem is that you are presenting it in such a harmful way that it is only natural that they should recoil. Read the Dear Abdalla letters I posted.This is the most demonization I've seen in my life. For shame. Go to sleep, calm down, and then come back and read what you wrote. Is this the Gospel?In bewilderment, Tyrel.
 

Amy

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(Biblical Tetragramaton;19347)
How sad.Dear Amy,I care very much that Every Muslim in the world comes to Christ. I also care about the suffering in the Third World, and everywhere else right now.I do not think your implications that I don't know Christianity well is unfair, and comically contrary to reality. My study of Islam, is certainly incomplete. However, I am not ignorant. I do not make this appeal for any past Muslim friends, or present. I make this appeal for you Amy. I am not hurt personally. My Muslim friends would not pay much attention to you once they realized how illogical you are choosing to be, and they'd probably tell me to give up on you, as many of my Christian brothers who have observed your posts already have. Call me stubborn, but I see a great deal of potential in you. For now, I will leave you with this to mull over;Try evagelising with love in afghanistan, iran or pakistan ! Try evangelizing anywhere without love.I hope you rethink what you said. When you are calm, please let me know.
There are three kids in a school. One of them is bulling the other. The one who is bullied is too scared... shall the third kid who is a witness to this not report the teacher that something needs to be done? It's obvious what you'll be doing in this situation. Trying your best to keep the matter hush hush, because you don't releaize that probably this is not the only bully in the school, it is infact a trend to play macho and be cool. At what cost? The one who are weak? Have you lifted one finger to come up with a better plan than awareness? Need I say more? Yes, don't jump into something you have no clue about!Not a single christian have given me this intimation but many have sent me pm's appreciating my work. Where do you think I get this energy from? Because, people want to know the truth. I can prove this as I have few private messages left in my inbox (due to limited storage). People have even said that they want to know more and more... But can you prove what you what you have just said? We can see in this very thread that it is only YOU who is living in a cocoon.You see great potential in me, yes many of my other christian brothers and sisters see that too. I'll take that as a compliment.
 

Christina

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Are you completely blind ???? We have ex Muslims on this site they will all tell you the same thing do you watch the news? Ever read Sharia Law, the Caliphate????Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. These are not my words but Gods2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?These are not my words but GodsHow you defend a religion that demote your savior to a lackey of mohammadthat promises heaven is full of sex and virginsthat honors blowing up babies as a holy thing who's book says lying is acceptable if it furthers the cause Islamthat want Gods chosen people deadhave you ever watched how they teach their children to hate and kill ????(inocent 3 and 4 year olds)Theier religion is evil incarnate the oppiste of all God teaches [/B]Jesus tells me give them truth and dust off your feet and leave do not waste your time thats what cast your pearls before swine means Gods words are pearls
 
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