Best Reply to “From Eternity Past”

[musterion]

As far as your Q & A's.....nice try, but no cigar. It's a nice trick to put so much truth down with just a tiny twist of untruth in it....makes it more believeable.

Thank you for doing what I already knew would happen: accusing me of lies and calumnies without bothering to point them out, then skedaddling off into the sunset.

But your problem is that you are taking an inheritantly wrong view of God.

I'm glad you finally agree with me that one of us has a very, very wrong concept of God.

You're saying...."God cant choose to condemn some people straight off the bat....that's "morally" wrong and makes God a giant meenie!"

So now, finally, you let it out. You DO believe in a "god" that, on the one hand, begs the whole world to be saved freely and without distinction while, on the other hand, SECRETLY LIES about who He has disabled from receiving that gift but will condemn them for rejecting it anyway.

Thank you for making your true feelings about God clearer than anyone I've ever encoutered in 10 years of doing this, and thank you for doing it where everyone can see it.

 

[Rach1370]

Musterion...sigh. I did not 'scurry of into the sunset' because I am 'scared of your arguements' or feel you are putting points forward that I cannot answer. That was not my intent. My intent was to leave the discussion before a true arguement brewed through our very clear disagreements. I have learned (often the hard way) that such arguements do no good for me or the the other party...and they certainly aren't edifying for us, or stand as proof of our 'saved and forgiving' status.

However, I am happy to continue our conversation....but you must realise a few things. Firstly...you saying that my beliefs are blasphemous will not do. And I'll tell you why.....scripture paints it out. As I've shown before, the passages, verses and words used are clear...in intent and purpose. Calling me a blasphermer for reading scripture and (insert sarcasm!) believing the words used were the words meant, is just a little beyond the pale.

Which leads me to my second caveat...you made many, many accusations against me and my belief ( a belief shared by many, many Christians), and objected wildly to how I 'read' those scriptural passages that I gave to show God's elective purposes. And yet in all those accusation and assertions, you've given no scripture backing for these allegations. NOT A SINGLE ONE.

So...stop casting aspersions on my character, just because I'm pointing out the flaws in your arguement.

It's simply not ok to spend many posts going "your're wrong, so wrong, those verses you posted are wrong, of course it doesn't mean that. Oh wait, you're sick of me calling you wrong with no backing...of course, run away and prove to the world that you're calling God a liar, and cannot prove what you believe...not matter all those verses you posted. Ha! See...I'm right and you're wrong...just as I've always said! Hurrah I win!"

Can you not see how impossible it is to have a serious conversation with someone taking that tack....and to serious discussing what the bible is saying about the topic...when you have given me nothing from scripture to prove that you're not just blowing air?

If you want me to go through your "Q & As" thoroughly, fine...I'm happy to....but first I call you to put up some verses to back your case.

And, for the record...If I do decide to stop answering you because I feel it is spiralling out of control and will benefit no one here to continue, I will. And if you want to put it down as me running with tail between legs, fine....that's your petty, and you will be welcome to it.

 

[musterion]

You've said nothing new here so let's nail this down once and for all. The #1 question is still very, very simple. Please answer it.

If God begs to be saved men whom He reprobated to the Lake of Fire, then condemns them specifically for their inevitable unbelief, He is a liar.

True or false?

 

[Rach1370]

And still no verses. We're not talking of opinions here, but what the bible teaches. I've shown you verses that prove my claims. Lay your down on the table and then we'll get into it. But if not, there's really nothing to discuss.

 

[musterion]

The opposite question is also valid and easily answered.

If God warns of damnation for unbelief those whom He elected to save, even though sooner or later He will irresistibly enable them to believe so that they actually cannot ever be lost, He is a liar.

True or false?

 

[Rach1370]

True: Musterion still hasn't given a SINGLE bible verse to support his claim.

 

[musterion]

I've already cited Scripture but you're content with simply contradicting them with other Scriptures. That's the problem here and with all boards like this one...you're quite content with a Mexican standoff of Bible verses where nothing EVER gets resolved. I am not content with that because it dishonors the God who is TRUTH.

Rach, I am trying, hard, to get you to think on these things on a higher level than you're letting yourself operate on. I'm trying to get you to do what someone once did for me when I was in your place: consider the unquestioned implications of my doctrines. You have not let yourself really examine what your doctrines reveal about how you view God, whether you realize that or not. Nor did I. It was a hard thing for me to do, and I was horrified when I did, but now I thank God for it. I'm trying to HELP you.

Last offer: Give me a true or false to the above questions and I will discuss ANY verse or passage of Scripture you name, or if you prefer, I will agree to drop it all with you if that's what you want. Either way, it's your call. Just answer those two questions, honestly and thoughtfully.

 

[Rach1370]

I've already cited Scripture but you're content with simply contradicting them with other Scriptures. That's the problem here and with all boards like this one...you're quite content with a Mexican standoff of Bible verses where nothing EVER gets resolved. I am not content with that because it dishonors the God who is TRUTH.

Ahhhh....actually, no you have not 'cited scripture'. Look back over the entire page. You have referred to Romans 9, and Colossians, but only in refusing to give credance to what it is addressing. But beyond that...YOU HAVE INDEED NOT GIVEN SCRIPTURE.
As I have been calling for you to do so all along, I will again repeat: the onus is on you to provide biblical evidence to support your claim. Just saying repeatedly that the verses I have given are not evidence for my beliefs, does not cut it. You want truth...you want biblical truth presented to us by the God of truth....then start putting down what he has said on the subject. Having you point, dodge and accuse is not how this works. You wanna dance, then I want to hear how God defends your claim. And the longer you do not put such evidence down, the more certain it becomes that you cannot.

 

[musterion]

I am editing my original comment so as to strive with you no longer. I've tried reasoning with you, to no avail. I've already dealt with you from Scripture, to no avail. You want more Scipture? Here's all we need for this: the Scripture says God cannot lie. Your theology makes Him a liar. If you could prove that wrong, you'd have done so by now.

 

[Rach1370]

Why....why do you claim to have produced scripture, when it's an easy feat to look back to the top of this page and see that you have given none?
Truly, I am not trying to frustrate you or troll you. But you must see that for this conversation to be equal and serious, you must have scripture to back your claim, otherwise it's just your opinion.