BEWARE OF THE SPIRITUALIZERS HERE
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LOL. The insults were your own words. You are sinking yourself.
PS95
Well-Known Member
You didn't convince anyone Indiana, and that's a good thing. I don't want to come off as hateful. Sorry if I did. Heresy aka false teachings, I take seriously.. I have a background full of it... one that teaches Jesus returned in 1914. Guess who? You hit a sore spot. I have a lot of Jw family believing that false prophecy. That cult destroys people. Where one false teaching is from my experience there are 900 more. Talk about leaven.
You very well could be a brother in the Lord, albeit you have this part mixed up. I have no idea. I can not say that about Jws- so my guard goes up when I hear someone insisting something that is in obvious error.
I know that this post doesn't make you happy because I called what you teach heresy again. That's just cuz it is. I don't hate you for it- I sincerely hope you get this straightened out.
I took no offense, I was being tongue in cheek in that response but I should’ve known better than to do that.
The sad thing is the discussions on this thread go nowhere because of the rude comments and accusations. It would be nice just to debate something as simple as what words in a verse mean without people getting bent out of shape.
I believe we’re brothers brother and thank you for reaching out.
I’m gonna make one last attempt on this verse because it is such an important doctrine to understand.
The house in this verse IS NOT heaven. The house is the body (tabernacle) that our souls dwell in when we go to heaven.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
This house is the glorified body that we will spend eternity in. That house is built right now, we are not waiting for a future resurrection to step into that body. We step into that body immediately after we leave this body.
The house in this verse IS NOT heaven. The house is the body (tabernacle) that our souls dwell in when we go to heaven.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens
This house is the glorified body that we will spend eternity in. That house is built right now, we are not waiting for a future resurrection to step into that body. We step into that body immediately after we leave this body.
JLB
Well-Known Member
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
- that we (those of us) who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
Paul is referring to Christians, those of us who are in Christ and remain alive at the coming of the Lord.
With respect, Paul didn’t say “Christians”, or “Those believers , he said WE, including himself.
You have your idea of what Paul is talking about in this verse and Paul being alive for that event does not work in that belief system.
That belief system also violates “it is appointed unto man ONCE to die…”.
Looking only at the KJV English grammar (no commentary):
- “…that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.”
There is no modifier distancing Paul from that group (he doesn’t say “those who are alive” or “they that are alive”).
Therefore, grammatically, yes — Paul uses wording that includes himself as among those alive at the Lord’s coming.
That’s just what the grammar says: Paul includes himself with “we.”
I can’t go against what the words are actually saying. I just won’t do it.
Not only because it’s going against what’s written, it goes against what I know Paul is talking about and I understand why he included himself.
JLB
Well-Known Member
Do you believe Paul meant just himself, or that Paul was referring to all believers who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord?
Paul meant himself and all believers who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord.
The coming of the Lord does not always mean the second coming. When we get saved the Lord comes into our life. When we die, the Lord comes to take us heaven.
If we just stick with what Paul said we know that Paul isn’t talking about the second coming which means he could be talking about our salvation experience when the lord comes to dwell in us or he could be talking about when the Lord comes to take us to heaven.
When Paul says he will be a part of that event, he is throwing up a stop sign for those who think it’s about the second coming.
Most people ignore the stop sign just like it doesn’t exist.
Thanks for your OPINION, and that's all it is, and thanks for your NOT noticing how the rudeness usually begins by the other person directing at me first. I don't see much 'manners' here on this Forum, especially with those who just like to CHIME IN and give personal opinions against someone WITHOUT giving any evidence.
Thus about you then, I'd say you'd be anybody's dog that will hunt with them as long as they follow the traditions of men that you follow.
NO, just keeping things in common IS NOT COMMUNISM. Big... difference. You're just another one of the younger generation today that refuses to understand the history of World Communism.
The history of Soviet Communism is easily available, you ought to get up to speed on that history and find out what Communism is really about. You might even want to watch the British movie '1984', a story written by British Fabian Socialist George Orwell. That is how he suggested the future New World Order might be. No freedom, no rights, on the edge of starvation, jerked out of bed at night and interrogated for stupid misdemeanors, dividing families, controlling births, lack of basic needs, no free speech, etc.
jaybird
Well-Known Member
- Feb 29, 2016
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so communism, according to you, is all about taking away peoples free will to worship, property, and every other bad thing we can throw in there and nothing to do with keeping things in common. yet all these folks in east europe chose this government, yeah that makes a lot of sense
your idea of communism is based on george orwell, now its starting to make sense. but yeah i will watch gorge orwell to learn proper communism then maybe i will watch some star treks to learn how the universe works
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Okay, buddy. I guess you must enjoy it because you keep coming back for more. Also, denying the glorious future return of Jesus is heretical and I'm not going to sugarcoat that.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
How about not ignoring 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 when interpreting that verse? You are interpreting it in such a way that contradicts verses 6-8? Do you not care if your interpretation of a verse lines up with the rest of scripture?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What contradiction?
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
While we’re at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord? Where’s the contradiction?
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
We walk by faith. Where is the contradiction?
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
We would rather be absent from the earthly body so we came be present with the Lord. Where is the contradiction?
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And the sect called the Essenes that existed in the days of John the Baptist DID NOT WRITE THE BIBLE, just because they existed at the time of Christ's Apostles but are not mentioned in The Gospel Books. They were an monastic, ascetic group living in the desert, and their writings mention NOTHING about John the Baptist and his teaching. It's the OCCULT INITIATE FRATERNITIES that put out the FALSE idea that John the Baptist, and maybe even Mary or Jesus, were members of the Essene sect. And that false idea is in connection with what the pagan GNOSTICS believed, which many of their false doctrines have been picked up by today's SECRET SOCIETIES, like the Masonic Lodge, Rosicrucians, etc.
The fact that you brought them up here, possibly suggests to me the OCCULT FRATERNITIES are what has influenced your opinions about The Bible and what God's Word actually teaches.
NO, the U.S. government IS DEFINITELY NOT OWNED by the wealthy elite. Haven't you realized yet that Donald Trump is presently the U.S. President and his administration has been going after and convicting the Leftist politicians of past Liberal administrations that WERE guilty of influence by the wealthy elite? You are out of touch with reality.
NO, keeping goods in common is NOT Communism. And there is NO Bible passage support the theory of Communism. You obviously have NOT read anything about REAL Communist theory by Karl Marx, Engels, or Lenin.
JAMESTOWN:
You have also missed the TRUE HISTORY of the early American Jamestown settlement when the 1st year they held all goods in common. No matter how much or how little one worked, they each got the same. Many STARVED that first year, because there was a LACK of food! That actually happened! So there's YOUR Communist success story! IT FAILED!
The next year, those at Jamestown changed to a FREE ENTERPRISE system like GOD'S WORD teaches regarding GOD-GIVEN PROPERTY RIGHTS, and that if you don't work, you don't eat! What food you raised you got to keep, and any excess you could trade or sell. No one starved that next year because there was ABUNDANCE OF FOOD. Thus a FREE ENTERPRISE system is GOD'S WAY per His Word!
Isa 65:21-23
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of My people, and Mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
KJV
Under the Soviet Communist system, with their Communist controlled farms, they took the original owners of those farms off their lands, and moved them to the cities to work in factories. They then instead put 'other' peoples on those state-run farms that knew little about farming. Crop production dropped, because it was even shown that most of the group stood around and didn't work, while only the few did all the work (like it was at Jamestown the first year). The REASON? It's because under Communism, there is NO INCENTIVE to work hard, because it won't get the person anywhere, they just become a SLAVE to the Communist Party officials. And it has been that historically that caused a major ALCOHOLIC PROBLEM in the Soviet Union.
That... is why in 1989 the Soviet Communists decided to ALLOW THE BERLIN WALL to come down, so they could get Western Aid and money to boost their wrecked economies! They TURNED TO A FREE ENTERPRISE STRATEGY easing up on the people to allow them a certain level of property rights from their labor! THAT MEANS NO MORE ALL THINGS HELD IN COMMON! Wake up, the Communist nations have partially adopted CAPITALIST STRATEGIES for their economies, but still apply many basic Karl Marx principles upon their citizens. Wake up!
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