Bible alone

[GracePeace]

then explain these verses
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 2:42
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture and the spirit send an apostle to teach him
And Philip preached a Jesus, how did the eunuch know about baptism?

Eunuch didn't have the Spirit to teach him.

 

[GracePeace]

I don't at all agree that Jude lived by Enoch's prophecies. Catholic sources can be cited for their popularly-accepted expressions about faith that are legitimate without sanctioning Catholicism whole cloth.

I'm not sure if this is your issue or not. But within my own American culture, I can quote Mark Twain to speak to Americans without sanctioning Twain's life and morality. Christians in the 1st century could legitimately quote Jewish works known to all to speak to a particular expectation without legitimizing the source in all respects.

That's what I believe was happening with Enoch. He was a well-known source of information, expressing what most people believed Enoch prophesied. Pretending to *be* the real Enoch was another thing entirely. Most likely, people knew that the work was not Enoch, that it was pseudepigraphal.

Jews decided what was Scripture in the OT era--they did not choose Enoch. NT authors did not therefore treat Enoch as Scriptures, and would therefore not be treated as canonical. They determined NT canon later, but they also accepted what the Jews had established as OT Scriptures.

If I am missing some of the process of what the Jews and Christians accepted as OT canon, I apologize. I'm ready to learn more. The point I've tried to make is that before NT Scriptures were established as canonical, they did not treat Enoch as Jewish canon.

So Jude didn't live by Enoch but enjoined others to do so--he was a hypocrite and we have his hypocrisy enshrined in our perfect complete infallible rule we are to live by.

Interesting take.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So Jude didn't live by Enoch but enjoined others to do so--he was a hypocrite and we have his hypocrisy enshrined in our perfect complete infallible rule we are to live by.

Interesting take.

Please cite where Jude enjoined others to live by Enoch? I'm referring to the Book of Enoch, and not just the biblical personage! After all, we're speaking of the *book,* and not just the *person* right? We have not yet established that the author of the book of Enoch was, in fact, Enoch! At best, I think the book merely represented a single prophecy of Enoch for Jude's purposes.

 

[GracePeace]

Please cite where Jude enjoined others to live by Enoch? I'm referring to the Book of Enoch, and not just the biblical personage! After all, we're speaking of the *book,* and not just the *person* right? We have not yet established that the author of the book of Enoch was, in fact, Enoch!

I didn't say Book I said Enoch.

 

[GracePeace]

Please cite where Jude enjoined others to live by Enoch? I'm referring to the Book of Enoch, and not just the biblical personage! After all, we're speaking of the *book,* and not just the *person* right? We have not yet established that the author of the book of Enoch was, in fact, Enoch! At best, I think the book merely represented a single prophecy of Enoch for Jude's purposes.

My point was the incompleteness of "the Bible" anthology is evinced in that it cites authoritatively from sources it does not contain not in that what is commonly accepted as "The Book of Enoch" is authentic.

 

[Riverwalker]

If God gives us His word, which he did. What can man add to it?

 

[theefaith]

Eunuch didn't have the Spirit to teach him.

And you do?

Jn 8:32 and Jn 16:13 apply to peter and the apostles then they teach us, the people! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 2:42 eh 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[GracePeace]

If God gives us His word, which he did. What can man add to it?

The Word says eternal life is a repayment for good deeds.

 

[GracePeace]

And you do?

Jn 8:32 and Jn 16:13 apply to peter and the apostles then they teach us, the people! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 2:42 eh 4:5 Jude 1:3

Yes we have the Spirit to that teaches us to love one another and have no need that any man teach us, but there is another class of doctrine which is given to humble men to disseminate to the body of Christ. Irrespectively, the Word of God BOTH condemns every evil work contrary to sound doctrine 1 Timothy 1:9-10 AND equips the man of God for every good work (two sides of the same coin) and was written by God with Christians in mind 1 Corinthians 9:10. God speaks in His Word. Obviously. Everyone must submit to His Word (even Christ had to--we are beneath Him of course) and any new "revelation" cannot ever contradict It.

 

[Wrangler]

I’m just curious about it, Paul said if you keep the law you have fallen from grace

The sabbath is part of the law, but also part of the first creation, but we are a new creation and God makes all things new

Oy vey! Living in the Age of Grace does not mean we should violate the 10 Commandments every chance we get. Where did Paul say we should violate the 10 Commandments every chance we get? What verse did he say if we 'keep the law you have fallen from grace?'

He never said anything like this! Galatians 5:4 talks about attempting to achieve salvation by your own work, justify yourself through law keeping. I am not saying anything remotely like this!

I do not keep the Sabbath because I am under the law and my salvation depends on it. I keep holy the Sabbath Day to honor God and to humble myself. If God, Himself, rested after working 6 days, so should we all. Putting aside religion, I am a big believer in The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. The 7th Habit, Sharpen the Saw, is a secular equivalent to resting on the Sabbath Day. That is, not only is it a commandment, it is also a prudent guiding principle to live by.

 

[Wrangler]

Does a doctrine have to be in the Bible?

I started a thread that differentiated:

1. Explicit Biblical teaching
2. Doctrine that is merely 'supported' by the Bible.

So, when you say 'doctrine' that is 'in' the Bible, which of these 2 do you mean? An EOC friend said one can 'support' almost any doctrine by claiming it is 'in' the Bible - if you lack guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Also, what do you mean by 'doctrine?' A leader of the CDL said dogma is something worth dying over, like following Christ. And doctrine are principles that the different denominations have. He says too many confuse dogma with doctrine and that leads to unproductive infighting that undermines our basic mission to bring people to Christ.

 

[Randy Kluth]

My point was the incompleteness of "the Bible" anthology is evinced in that it cites authoritatively from sources it does not contain not in that what is commonly accepted as "The Book of Enoch" is authentic.

That doesn't follow for me. I have a different view of it, as earlier described. I don't believe God wrote down a determined number of books to be established as canon. Rather, he chose certain reliable individuals in a certain time period in order to responsibly convey what Jesus meant to teach. That limits NT canon to what the Jews saw as OT canon and to the apostles of the 1st century who did this task, conveying Christian doctrine to the churches.

Referencing apocryphal works does not attest to the incompleteness of the NT canon. References to Christian, non-Christian, and Jewish works is an acceptable way of writing, and has nothing to do with canonizing these works. Rather, it has to do with whether the authors were very, very close to Jesus and to his original apostles. It also has to do with whether the work they produced had to do with ensuring the Church had proper guidance.

 

[GracePeace]

That doesn't follow for me. I have a different view of it, as earlier described. I don't believe God wrote down a determined number of books to be established as canon. Rather, he chose certain reliable individuals in a certain time period in order to responsibly convey what Jesus meant to teach. That limits NT canon to what the Jews saw as OT canon and to the apostles of the 1st century who did this task, conveying Christian doctrine to the churches.

Referencing apocryphal works does not attest to the incompleteness of the NT canon. References to Christian, non-Christian, and Jewish works is an acceptable way of writing, and has nothing to do with canonizing these works. Rather, it has to do with whether the authors were very, very close to Jesus and to his original apostles. It also has to do with whether the work they produced had to do with ensuring the Church had proper guidance.

Hey, it proves they were living their lives by books we are NOT. To me, this inconsistency leads to curiosity.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Then who is the head of the church on earth? Who has custody of the holy church? Who administer the kingdom of Christ?

There is no head of the church on earth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hey, it proves they were living their lives by books we are NOT. To me, this inconsistency leads to curiosity.

I don't agree, but I accept that its a possibility. Jude *could have* lived by the book of Enoch. I just don't think so. I have no way to prove that one way or another.

When I quote a Catholic reference, I am not automatically signing on to the Catholic religion/denomination. But citing Catholic references could, in fact, be a sanctioning of Catholicism by me. Perhaps we have an unprovable disagreement?

 

[GracePeace]

I don't agree, but I accept that its a possibility. Jude *could have* lived by the book of Enoch. I just don't think so. I have no way to prove that one way or another.

Well if he tells me to live by Enoch's prophecy, but doesn't himself, he's a hypocrite and his hypocrisy is enshrined in your perfect little book for all to see!

 

[theefaith]

The Word says eternal life is a repayment for good deeds.

yep

but where does he t say the word is limited to scripture
Jn 20:21-23 he breathed on them


Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John
Did it come by scripture?

 

[theefaith]

Yes we have the Spirit to that teaches us to love one another and have no need that any man teach us, but there is another class of doctrine which is given to humble men to disseminate to the body of Christ. Irrespectively, the Word of God BOTH condemns every evil work contrary to sound doctrine 1 Timothy 1:9-10 AND equips the man of God for every good work (two sides of the same coin) and was written by God with Christians in mind 1 Corinthians 9:10. God speaks in His Word. Obviously. Everyone must submit to His Word (even Christ had to--we are beneath Him of course) and any new "revelation" cannot ever contradict It.

we must be taught by holy mother church
Lk 1:4 instructed

 

[GracePeace]

yep

but where does he t say the word is limited to scripture
Jn 20:21-23 he breathed on them


Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John
Did it come by scripture?

It didn't contradict Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

we must be taught by holy mother church
Lk 1:4 instructed

Paul wasn't. He got many revelations of the faith through Scripture--and so commended men to the Scripture to obtain the same education in the faith 2 Timothy 3:16.

 

[GracePeace]

we must be taught by holy mother church
Lk 1:4 instructed

No, and you didn't address what I said in that post you merely parroted the same empty things you always do.