Biblically Questioning the Creeds

[stunnedbygrace]

Precious friend, thanks for your input, but, if we have to be "other language" scholars to study and understand God's Precious Word,
then Many of us are in Big Trouble. Notice:

"And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues The Wonderful
Works Of God." (Acts 2:8-11)

Although I do respect trained theologians who are equipped with
"talent in other tongues," I do not rely on their varying Disagreements on Scripture. I believe God's Way of "study in my own tongue" is to be "With The Indwelling Holy Spirit As my 'Blessed Teacher'
(1 Corinthians 2:13), while following these Bible study Rules!

Precious friend, thanks again for your input.

I do understand what you’re saying. I saw that the Holy Spirit was God and there wasn’t God who is spirit and then another Spirit that was the Holy Spirit. I just saw God was the Holy Spirit, and I did so without knowing Hebrew or Greek. But it is absolutely wonderful to see someone who knows Hebrew or Greek be able to confirm that a doctrine is wrong even by the original language. I also saw wisdom in that verse is the Holy Spirit and saw it without Hebrew knowledge, although I couldn’t explain why the Holy Spirit was called a she, I did just know it was the Holy Spirit.
But I’m thankful for scholars!
And I think epi’s point was that some languages have everything as either male or female but it doesn’t mean that they ARE male or female. Like in Spanish, a door is female and ends in letter “a.” But when we translate to English, which doesn’t have that gender distinction for every single object there is, we don’t say, the door she was closed. Doors aren’t females! And even Spanish speaking people know that!
Now there are instances when the a or o does connote gender, not with objects, but with people, like hermana or Hermano for sister or brother.

 

[marks]

I do not know why you assigned "flawed thinking" on my part just for asking questions while trying to guess what you were referring to about.

Don't let him get to you. I see this sort of thing a lot. In time you'll see who acts that way and who doesn't.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If we sin while we are in the Spirit we fall out of the Spirit the same way that Adam fell out of the Spirit when he sinned.

Not so.

Adam was created in the image of God, that is, he was spirit. Living in a body, but not that body. His spirit was in communion with God, being righteous. When he sinned, his spirit lost connection with God - died. We, being reborn, that dead spirit is again made alive, not by being reformed to be like Adam's spirit, but instead by God coming to live in us, His Spirit bringing life to our spirit.

So now we are restored to connection with God, but NOT because we have a new "Adam-spirit", but because we now have the Spirit of Christ, Who gives us His righteousness, and in His righteousness, we have restored connection with God. And this is eternal, everlasting life, because unlike Adam's spirit, which could lose it's righteousness, Christ's Spirit in us will never lose righteousness.

You have been born again by the incorruptible seed which lives and remains forever.

Much love!

 

[Pierac]

@HammerStone @Angelina @Brent W @1forrest

I am new here and so looking over the forum's statement of faith as closed handed issues, I am not sure why you would add affirming the Apostle's creed and the Nicene's creed to it.

BTW You probably should specify which Nicene creed you are referring to in your Statement of Faith; is it the "historic" as in the original in 325 A.D. or the modified one in 381 A.D.?

Anyway... here is why I am questioning both of those the creeds in relations to your statement of faith.

You began with "We believe that God is the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. We attest that God has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God."

But both creeds assign the Father alone to that credit & glory.

Apostle creed begins with "I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth."

Nicene creed of 325 A.D. begins with "We believe in one God, the Father, Ruler of All, Maker of all things visible and invisible;

The modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D. begins with "I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible."

So am I to assume that since you agree with the creeds, does that mean God in your opening statement is only referring to the Father, and not inferring to God as in all Three Persons by the statement following it?

I know this is supposed to be a close-handed issue but I am confused as to where you stand.

As you probably already know Creeds are nothing more than "Traditions of Men"

If anyone needs a Creed to tell them how or what to believe... They are already followers of men and will be exposed when they fail to Love others when they disagree...

Paul

 

[marks]

I do understand what you’re saying. I saw that the Holy Spirit was God and there wasn’t God who is spirit and then another Spirit that was the Holy Spirit. I just saw God was the Holy Spirit, and I did so without knowing Hebrew or Greek. But it is absolutely wonderful to see someone who knows Hebrew or Greek be able to confirm that a doctrine is wrong even by the original language. I also saw wisdom in that verse is the Holy Spirit and saw it without Hebrew knowledge, although I couldn’t explain why the Holy Spirit was called a she, I did just know it was the Holy Spirit.
But I’m thankful for scholars!
And I think epi’s point was that some languages have everything as either male or female but it doesn’t mean that they ARE male or female. Like in Spanish, a door is female and ends in letter “a.” But when we translate to English, which doesn’t have that gender distinction for every single object there is, we don’t say, the door she was closed. Doors aren’t females! And even Spanish speaking people know that!
Now there are instances when the a or o does connote gender, not with objects, but with people, like hermana or Hermano for sister or brother.

But when you are looking at Koine Greek syntax (I don't have the same knowledge of Hebrew) the genders show you how to arrange the clauses. English uses word order for the most part to show word associations, but Koine Greek uses gender, number, case, to show how the words interrelate.

We know that the free gift of God is in Ephesians 2 relates not just to faith being given, but to the grace and the faith and the salvation, it's all the gift, and it's the gender designations that show this. It's just a function of how the language works.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

@Angelina & @amadeus I had not initially tagged you guys only because you were interested in helping me feel free to post in the forum and I do thank you both for that. However, if you wish to add to my inquiry here as the Lord leads, do feel free to do so. Thanks.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

I believe it was wrong for me to apply 2 Corinthians 3:17 of the Lord to the Holy Spirit when that reference was about the Lord Jesus being that Spirit. Is there another reference that better suit that line or is that not another line that should be discarded as not really Biblically correct when we should be honoring the Son alone in any creed if we seek to honor the Father which the Holy Spirit in us & scripture leads us to do?

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Seems the Holy Spirit would defer all the spotlight away from Himself to keep that spotlight on the Son as the scripture does too.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Anyway, if you feel led by the Lord to share on this subject, feel free to do so since you guys helped me to feel free to post in the forum.

As I respond here now, I see that several people, including @Episkopos , have already gone into detail with you on your questions. I won't even try to get into all of your questions other than with regard to creeds. Since leaving active participation in Catholicism in 1961, I have never held to any creeds for a couple of reasons:

1) I have yet to find any established creed [statement of faith other than the entire Bible] where I would or could agree on every single point absolutely.

2) Perhaps more importantly to me is that I have been changing over the years serving Him. I am becoming hopefully always more like Him. As I have changed. some things, which once, I may have I believed, I no longer believe. Will that be happening anymore between now and the end of my course? If I am wrong on any point, I certainly hope so!

Give God the glory!

 

[Christ4Me]

There is a big difference between purity...the perfection of Christ given to us by grace that cleanses us by the blood (life) of Jesus...and the maturity we are to develop that allows us to remain in the spiritual walk of perfection of Christ.

I am not sure if perfection can be considered the same as sanctification & purity when Paul said he had not obtained perfection yet

There is a difference between a car and the ability to drive it under all road conditions. The car is the gift and the driving is the skill.

I always considered salvation as separate from discipleship.

So it is with Christ. We put on Christ as a gift of God's perfection...and we develop the character that sees us do ALL things ONLY through Him....to remain always in Him. If we sin while we are in the Spirit we fall out of the Spirit the same way that Adam fell out of the Spirit when he sinned.

Paul had surely gone in and out of the Spirit a number of times...because he lacked the spiritual maturity to be the same in stature as Jesus. THAT is what discipleship is all about...winning Christ in both grace and character.

But Ephesians 4:30 says otherwise for why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

We will all be judged by what we have done with what we have been given. To whom much is given more is required.

What we build on that foundation, shall be judged and regardless of it defiling the temple of God, the Holy Spirit is not going anywhere & neither will that seal of adoption; 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 but they will wish they had departed from iniquity; 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25

I thank you for sharing.

 

[Christ4Me]

This is a great observation, I never focused too much attention on those creeds. I would have to disagree with all concerning that one statement. We just probably need to insert Elohim as the creator, since all three were in involved. How did they miss Col. 1:16, 17?]

In context to your verses, I still read that as referring to Jesus Christ as that Creator.

Colossians 1: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

.And then in the beggining, the Spirit was hovering over the waters, was He just observing?

I agree on that part as that scripture does not really address that line in the Nicene creed.

I think our inderstanding of the scriptures has grown exponentially through the centuries. Many corrections of misinterpretations and misunderstandings have been brought to light since then and we are not done yet. We still see dimly. Heck, I think the concept of eternal Hell should have been more scrutinized. Martin Luther also had a problem with it but was warned by Calvin to leave it alone. It was too big. A 96 Theses would have been better.

Since God spoke a person into being, I do not believe He can undo His word of that person's existence for why His judgment is eternal as they also serve as an assurance of His promises that we will never be separated from Him again.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I always considered salvation as separate from discipleship.

This would be an interesting conversation, and probably helpful!
The verses that came immediately to mind were:

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.”

 

[marks]

What we build on that foundation, shall be judged and regardless of it defiling the temple of God, the Holy Spirit is not going anywhere & neither will that seal of adoption; 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 but they will wish they had departed from iniquity; 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 2:18-25

Amen!

 

[Christ4Me]

As you probably already know Creeds are nothing more than "Traditions of Men"

If anyone needs a Creed to tell them how or what to believe... They are already followers of men

Unwittingly, I agree. Yet anything from the pulpit or over the internet, we are to rely on Jesus Christ for help to discern & prove everything.

and will be exposed when they fail to Love others when they disagree...

Paul

You could add that when believers disagree with someone, they do not show love towards that believer by not sharing corrections by the scripture.

Indeed, we show love for the brethren when we correct them by the scripture.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

So what the church fail to do, even by excommunication, Jesus will do in getting that lost sheep that gets left behind after the Bridegroom had come.

That is why we are to love the brethren even after they are excommunicated from fellowship so that when they do repent, His love is still in us to let him back in. Paul addressed those that have fallen away from the faith & no longer walking after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 but when we withdraw from them as it is a commandment from the Lord in helping us to do that, we are to do it not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still because they are still His. 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Christ4Me]

The "he" is assigned by translators not the writers of the Bible who were not writing in Englsih. If the writers were writing in English originally I'm sure they would have dropped the gender indicators. This is hard for people to understand that only speak English.

Are they using the male gender pronouns in other Bibles written in their language?

Look at Proverbs where it says that wisdom is feminine.

Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets: (Prov. 1:20)

No denying that, but the Bible and even Paul had used allegories, and I say that is an allegory about wisdom that wished to be one with a man, meaning man can obtain wisdom from the Lord easily when seeking wisdom from Him.

Was King James the voice of God?

I doubt he ever claimed that and no one else ever did except in sarcasm about valuing the KJV in English.

Or is a given translation as authoritative as the original language and meaning?

Ever wondered why the N.T. scriptures are written in the Greek? Did Jesus speak Greek? Was Greek the language of God? Slippery slope there.

Gospel of John: Chapter 16 - TyndaleBible.com

John 16: 13How be it when he is come (I meane the sprete of truthe) he will leade yon into all trueth. He shall not speake of him selfe: but whatsoever he shall heare that shall he speake and he will shewe you thinges to come. 14 He shall glorify me for he shall receave of myne and shall shewe vnto you. 15 All thinges that ye father hath aremyne. Therfore sayd I vnto you that he shall take of myne and shewe vnto you. Tyndale Bible 1534

Can't lay it all on over the 50 KJV translators for using the male gender pronoun in referring to the Holy Spirit.

So you believe that translators are inspired by God to make the mistakes in judgment they do? So be it. People are free to believe whatever they want.

Be careful, brother. How you judge, as in correct, can also be applied to you for how you believe.

Entire doctrines are based on simple ignorance concerning how other languages work. There will always be the unlearned and the ignorant regarding any topic...ESPECIALLY the bible. But the trick is to look deeper and seek God's face for His grace and understanding.

You should consider that by you looking deeper into the neutral gender used in scripture; you may have done so without ascertaining with Him how it is to be defined when in context of the message in the scripture, because "it" cannot be grieved nor can it remind anyone nor have a mind to pray for someone and so the Holy Spirit cannot be an "it". Since both the Father & the Son are male designations, then the Spirit of God is a He in representing the Father & the Son. There is nothing unreasonable for designating the Holy Spirit as a He in scripture.

 

[Christ4Me]

God became a man who was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Below is the closest verse I can find about Jesus but it did not say He was filled with the Holy Spirit. Conceived by the Holy Ghost, but that is not the same thing as being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

If you have a scripture in mind to support that comment of yours, feel free to do so, but seeing how Jesus is God and One with the Triune God, I am not sure why the Holy Spirit would have to fill Him?

At His water baptism, when the Father spoke from Heaven, the Holy Spirit lighted on Him like a dove, but again, still not the same as filling Him.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This was done per His words to fulfill all righteousness of fulfilling a prophesy that the Father & the Holy Spirit sent Him, God Our Redeemer.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Christ lived among men and died for our sins and rose. He is worthy to be worshipped. But I also think that He is also tangible, the perfect illumination and image of God and so by our worship of Christ we also indirectly worship the Father and Holy Spirit, who are not as tangible. They are invisible. So in essence, we worship the Triune God. Actually we commune directly with the Holy Spirit, Who lives in us, guides us, loves us, sanctifies us, justifies us, gives us gifts, teaches us, convicts us of sin, listens to us, etc. It is also interesting and crucial that we do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Sins against the Son may be forgiven but not against the Holy Spirit - always thought that odd.

If we are doing what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do thru us, to lead us to testify of the Son ( John 15:26-27 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ), then how can we be led by the Holy Spirit in any other way in worship and not in just ministry?

If we look at what the spirit of the antichrist is in scripture being "instead of Christ" or "instead of the Son" then He may help us discern that they would take our eyes off of the Son in worship to their visitations with signs & lying wonders, but the indwelling Holy Spirit never will.

So for a church to take a man made creed to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, which is not taught in scripture at all, but there are scripture for why there are no scripture teaching that practice and that is God the Father already told us thru His Son how to come to Him in worship by the only way of the Son in John 14:6 and that climbing up any other way is a thief, ( John 10:1 ) and the only way to honor Him is by honoring the Son ( John 5:23 ) because when they stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.

That is the judgment John 5:22-23 over every believer. Why?

There are sinners in the world that worship spirits and speak in pagan supernatural tongues that is just gibberish nonsense and the Father wishes to reconcile them by calling them away from those spirits & that tongue to a personal relationship with Him thru His Son, Jesus Christ.

No other way, otherwise how can sinners know they have departed from these spirits if at any time the focus is on the Holy Spirit in worship? Are there not hymnals that focus only on the Spirit in worship? Are there not phenomenon of confusion by these so called visitations of the Holy Spirit in worship? Do these visiting phenomenon seduce believers into chasing after them to receive after a sign thinking it is the Holy Spirit? yet Jesus says this for our discernment that the Holy Spirit abide in us forever John 14:16 and that He will not be received the way the world receives spirits by seeing it in John 14:17 for we will know Him by Him dwelling in us. 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2

So it is not a matter of worrying about blaspheming the Holy Spirit but being led by the Spirit to do what the Spirit was sent to do thru us, to point to the Son still because He is our Good Shepherd & Bridegroom in how we relate to God the Father by & not be chasing after any spirits for a sign.

 

[Christ4Me]

As I respond here now, I see that several people, including @Episkopos , have already gone into detail with you on your questions. I won't even try to get into all of your questions other than with regard to creeds. Since leaving active participation in Catholicism in 1961, I have never held to any creeds for a couple of reasons:

1) I have yet to find any established creed [statement of faith other than the entire Bible] where I would or could agree on every single point absolutely.

2) Perhaps more importantly to me is that I have been changing over the years serving Him. I am becoming hopefully always more like Him. As I have changed. some things, which once, I may have I believed, I no longer believe. Will that be happening anymore between now and the end of my course? If I am wrong on any point, I certainly hope so!

Give God the glory!

I believe in our walks with the Lord, He will prune us from time to time so His disciples that bear fruit, may bear more fruits.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. The danger is resisting the pruning.

It can rob us of our joy as well as not abiding in Him to bear fruit at all, ad wind up at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes for not abiding in Him.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

The best way to deal with the possibility of sin or an iniquity in our lives that we are not aware of, is to hope in Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

As it is, for those saints not found abiding in Him and gets left behind, He will finish His work in them too ( Philippians 1:6 ) as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him ( john 6:37-40 ), but not every one called, is chosen for the Marriage Supper for why they are not chosen because they do not seek Him for help to be ready ( Luke 12:40-49 & Hebrews 12:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Revelation 2:18-25 ) nor to be willing to go ( Luke 14:15-24 & Luke 21:33-36 ) to escape the fiery calamity that is coming on the earth; 2 Peter 3:3-18 Luke 17:26-30 Revelation 8:7-13

I added scripture references in case you were inquiring as to where I got that from in making those comments.

I hope you have a blessed day in the Lord, brother, in growing in the knowledge of Him to bear more fruit.

 

[amadeus]

I believe in our walks with the Lord, He will prune us from time to time so His disciples that bear fruit, may bear more fruits.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. The danger is resisting the pruning.

It can rob us of our joy as well as not abiding in Him to bear fruit at all, ad wind up at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes for not abiding in Him.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

The best way to deal with the possibility of sin or an iniquity in our lives that we are not aware of, is to hope in Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

As it is, for those saints not found abiding in Him and gets left behind, He will finish His work in them too ( Philippians 1:6 ) as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him ( john 6:37-40 ), but not every one called, is chosen for the Marriage Supper for why they are not chosen because they do not seek Him for help to be ready ( Luke 12:40-49 & Hebrews 12:1-2 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 & Revelation 2:18-25 ) nor to be willing to go ( Luke 14:15-24 & Luke 21:33-36 ) to escape the fiery calamity that is coming on the earth; 2 Peter 3:3-18 Luke 17:26-30 Revelation 8:7-13

I added scripture references in case you were inquiring as to where I got that from in making those comments.

I hope you have a blessed day in the Lord, brother, in growing in the knowledge of Him to bear more fruit.

May you also be blessed as you walk with Him!
Give God the glory!

 

[Christ4Me]

This would be an interesting conversation, and probably helpful!
The verses that came immediately to mind were:

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

I apply that to mean that not everyone living as His disciple will consider the cost of discipleship and that is to be willing leave our lives and our loved ones behind ( Luke 14:25-35 ) for when the Bridegroom comes --> Luke 14:15-24 speaks of how believers invited to the King's Supper, were ensnared by the cares of this life that they make excuses not to come. Luke 21:33-36 confirms this snare for why we should pray for His help to escape what is coming on the earth or else get left behind.

Those left behind are still His, as in still saved, because they are still addressed as His servants for why they are getting stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready to go per Luke 12:40-49.

When you consider the parable of the ten virgins on how the kingdom of heaven is likened unto them where five were foolish that were not ready for when the Bridegroom had come & were shut out, readers generally overlook verse 1 because they were still in His kingdom as of the ten virgins. Matthew 25:1-13

But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.”

Same thing. Like Lot's wife in verse 32 of Luke 17:26-37 in how she looked back because she loved the life she had lived that she was leaving. This is the warning to believers living as His disciples but not aware for how the cares of this life can ensnare a believer into not leaving.

Salvation is separate from discipleship since running that race by looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) is so we can be received by the Bridegroom when He comes, to avoid becoming a castaway even though they are still saved & in His kingdom of heaven. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 So even if they die after being left behind ( Revelation 2:18-25 ) in that day of fire ( 2 Peter 3:3-18 & Revelation 8:7-13 ) their spirits are still saved ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & 2 Corinthians 5:5-11 ) as their spirits will be with the Lord; Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation in Revelation 20:1-6 in serving the King of kings on earth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I apply that to mean that not everyone living as His disciple will consider the cost of discipleship and that is to be willing leave our lives and our loved ones behind

So how does that fit with this: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it.

it’s very nice to meet you by the way. I struggled with your posts but I agree with some of what you say.

 

[Christ4Me]

So how does that fit with this: For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for My sake shall find it.

Well, let's say the rapture is happening and the first wrong thing a believer does is wishing to save his life on earth in not losing anything he has gained for his heart is on his treasure on earth, rather than above. So with that fiery calamity coming, he loses his life anyway for trying to save it.

The believers living by hope in Him to help them to follow Him, He will have their hearts set on the treasure above to leave all that they have behind.

it’s very nice to meet you by the way. I struggled with your posts but I agree with some of what you say.

It is nice to meet you, too. I hope in the Lord to minister to you & to me since wisdom comes from the Lord.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, let's say the rapture is happening and the first wrong thing a believer does is wishing to save his life on earth in not losing anything he has gained for his heart is on his treasure on earth, rather than above. So with that fiery calamity coming, he loses his life anyway for trying to save it.

What about all the men who have died up until the rapture?

 

[Nancy]

Well, let's say the rapture is happening and the first wrong thing a believer does is wishing to save his life on earth in not losing anything he has gained for his heart is on his treasure on earth, rather than above. So with that fiery calamity coming, he loses his life anyway for trying to save it.

The believers living by hope in Him to help them to follow Him, He will have their hearts set on the treasure above to leave all that they have behind.



It is nice to meet you, too. I hope in the Lord to minister to you & to me since wisdom comes from the Lord.

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

"Well, let's say the rapture is happening and the first wrong thing a believer does is wishing to save his life on earth in not losing anything he has gained for his heart is on his treasure on earth, rather than above. So with that fiery calamity coming, he loses his life anyway for trying to save it."

This reminds me of Lot's wife, she looked back, as that was where here heart truly was. And, she lost her life.

I see many, including myself that start doing well after first being saved, going to church, praying...then ... what was left behind will pull you back because you think you cannot live without it. But, my guess is that it was the actual "sinning" she was missing. There's more than silver and gold keeping people in sin. Stunned and I have similar issues in this area. It's not "material things" that we seek but, obedience, the ability through His Spirit to STOP murdering, to STOP throwing fits (me) because of frustration. We seek His peace, amen. That is all we want and will continue to reach out and pray for.

Much love brother, you have really good way's of putting things.