Birth of Jesus Christ

[Fred J]

Friends,

When i was an unbeliever, have been invited to a Christian home for Christmas.

They were different and friendly and happy, and when happened to look at the display in their house, i see a manger, a man and woman with a baby and shepherds with staff.

Another house and another Christmas, i see a man and a woman with a baby, and magis this time.

Another time, a man and a woman with a baby and shepherds and majis this occasion.

Now based on Biblical account which is the 'truth'?

Thank you and shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[David Lamb]

Friends,

When i was an unbeliever, have been invited to a Christian home for Christmas.

They were different and friendly and happy, and when happened to look at the display in their house, i see a manger, a man and woman with a baby and shepherds with staff.

Another house and another Christmas, i see a man and a woman with a baby, and magis this time.

Another time, a man and a woman with a baby and shepherds and majis this occasion.

Now based on Biblical account which is the 'truth'?

Thank you and shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

I would say the first one. The shepherds were told by the angel that they would find the Baby lying in a manger, and they did. By the time the wise men got to Bethlehem, it was up to two years later:

(Mat 2:16 NKJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men.

So Jesus was no longer a Baby in a manger, but a toddler in a house:

(Mat 2:9-11 NKJV) After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

The magi or wise men did not see Jesus in the manger, and did not visit Jesus at the same time as the shepherds.

Incidentally, two other things that are often assumed about the wise men which are not found in the Bible are 1) how many of them there were. It is often assumed that there were three, because they brought three gifts, but two men, ten men, a hundred men could bring three gifts. 2) that they followed the star all the way from their home in the east to Bethlehem. That is not what the Bible says. It says that they saw the star when they were at home, but that it only started going before them after they had left Herod's palace in Jerusalem:

(Mat 2:9-10 NKJV) When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.

"The star which they had seen in the East," not "The star which they had followed from the east." If the star had been leading them all the way, why did they stop off in Jerusalem and ask where the King of the Jews had been born?

 

[stevesonthebay]

I could imagine the truth would be as it was for that time. Nothing too magical and probably a not too celebrated event when it happened. that is apart from those who were in the know.

Christ who walked the earth as the Messiah was prophesised so this would have been recognised by some. In fact Herod had heard about Christs birth when he ordered the first born to be killed.

I have seen historical documentaries which showed Joseph and Mary probably ened up in some sort of cave which usually housed animals. There would have been animals around. It was census time so a lot of people were coming to Bethlehem.

I have heard of some theories for the star of Bethlehem appearing around the time of Christs birth.

You would think if Christ was acknowledged by some as the promised saviour then there would have been some people knowing at the time. But this type of history is hard to find specifically. Its oral stories passed down and then writtem for keep sake. It was enough to influence our society in that we still celebrate Christs birth. But not so much in the true spirit anymore.

They say Christian in giving gifts is more a pagan belief. The two got mixed up along the way and then the pagan one became the norm.

 

[Jay Ross]

I would say the first one. The shepherds were told by the angel that they would find the Baby lying in a manger, and they did. By the time the wise men got to Bethlehem, it was up to two years later:

(Mat 2:16 NKJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men.

So Jesus was no longer a Baby in a manger, but a toddler in a house:

(Mat 2:9-11 NKJV) After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

The magi or wise men did not see Jesus in the manger, and did not visit Jesus at the same time as the shepherds.

Incidentally, two other things that are often assumed about the wise men which are not found in the Bible are 1) how many of them there were. It is often assumed that there were three, because they brought three gifts, but two men, ten men, a hundred men could bring three gifts. 2) that they followed the star all the way from their home in the east to Bethlehem. That is not what the Bible says. It says that they saw the star when they were at home, but that it only started going before them after they had left Herod's palace in Jerusalem:

(Mat 2:9-10 NKJV) When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.

"The star which they had seen in the East," not "The star which they had followed from the east." If the star had been leading them all the way, why did they stop off in Jerusalem and ask where the King of the Jews had been born?

I am sorry David, but you have distorted, or have accepted the distorted story of the Birth and early life of Jesus that others have presented as "fact."

The early accounts of Jesus's birth only cover a time period of around 40 or so day. Again, I will attach to this post my musings gleamed from all of the gospels of the time from when Mary was told that she would bring into the world the Messiah up to the time that Jesus was around 30 years of age, for you to read and reflect upon.

Shalom

 

[David Lamb]

I am sorry David, but you have distorted, or have accepted the distorted story of the Birth and early life of Jesus that others have presented as "fact."

The early accounts of Jesus's birth only cover a time period of around 40 or so day. Again, I will attach to this post my musings gleamed from all of the gospels of the time from when Mary was told that she would bring into the world the Messiah up to the time that Jesus was around 30 years of age, for you to read and reflect upon.

Shalom

Thank you for replying, Jay. I don't think I have accepted a distorted story. What I wrote was based on Scripture. You say that the accounts of the birth of Jesus cover only 40 days or so. That may be so regarding His birth, but my post was about the visit of the wise men. Why did Herod kill all the boys in Bethlehem and the surrounding district 2 years old and under? Matthew tells us. It was according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men as to when the star, which signaled the birth, had appeared:

(Mat 2:16 NKJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men.

There is certainly no indication in the Bible that the wise men visited Jesus at the same time as the shepherds.

 

[Jay Ross]

Thank you for replying, Jay. I don't think I have accepted a distorted story. What I wrote was based on Scripture. You say that the accounts of the birth of Jesus cover only 40 days or so. That may be so regarding His birth, but my post was about the visit of the wise men. Why did Herod kill all the boys in Bethlehem and the surrounding district 2 years old and under? Matthew tells us. It was according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men as to when the star, which signaled the birth, had appeared:

(Mat 2:16 NKJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men.

There is certainly no indication in the Bible that the wise men visited Jesus at the same time as the shepherds.

Did you download the attached PDF file, in which I presented the three Gospel passages in their assumed, on my part, chronological order.

The Matthew 2:16 verse tells us that Herrod had all the children from two years old and younger killed in and around Bethlehem. However, this verse is silent as to the age of Jesus when Jospeh took, Mary, Jesus and himself down towards Egypt. The assumption that Jesus was around two years of age cannot be justified by that verse since the Scriptures are silent with respect to Jesus' age when they left to travel towards Egypt. How far into Egypt, Jospeh took them into Egypt is not given either.

Now if you had read the attached document, then you would have read my understand of Jesus' early life. If you believe that there are errors in that document, then please present your rationale to justify your conclusion of my error. I welcome correction to what I might believe.

Shalom

 

[Fred J]

I would say the first one. The shepherds were told by the angel that they would find the Baby lying in a manger, and they did. By the time the wise men got to Bethlehem, it was up to two years later:

Thank you David Lamb.

i beleive based on Herod ordered killing of children from two years and under, the wise men would've visited within this time frame.

There's something suspicious about Herod enquired of the wise men diligently what time the star appeared?

Is there something by knowing the time the star appeared, probably wise men in Herod court could roughly perdict the child's age?

The wise men travelled from the east to Jerusalem predicted by looking at that star in the east that a significant King of the Jews is born.

Mat 2:16 NKJV) Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men.

So Jesus was no longer a Baby in a manger, but a toddler in a house:

Correct, by the time Joseph and Mary already got a house.

(Mat 2:9-11 NKJV) After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

The magi or wise men did not see Jesus in the manger, and did not visit Jesus at the same time as the shepherds.

Correct.

Incidentally, two other things that are often assumed about the wise men which are not found in the Bible are 1) how many of them there were. It is often assumed that there were three, because they brought three gifts, but two men, ten men, a hundred men could bring three gifts.

How many wise men is not written but we know there's more than one, they are probably astrologers and a talented 'few' who can predict the star and not anyone in Israel.

2) that they followed the star all the way from their home in the east to Bethlehem. That is not what the Bible says. It says that they saw the star when they were at home, but that it only started going before them after they had left Herod's palace in Jerusalem:

There's something about this star that only the wise men saw it in the east and predictable who's is it.

East is vast, let's say the wise men are from the 'middle-east' and the Jerusalem they came to is also east-Jerusalem.

Therefore they saw the star in the east and the star is Jesus' the King of the Jews, therefore to find him, east-Jerusalem is the best place to start.

That's why they went there asking for Him and no one knew but hearing the news itself all were troubled till Herod.

Once they departed from Herod, the star which they saw in the east now went before them another 10 kilometer to Bethlehem.

"The star which they had seen in the East," not "The star which they had followed from the east."

Brethren, the wise men saw the star in the east and it did not move but they went to east-Jerusalem as well to inquire about this child.

Since it's a buzzing city and moreover where the Temple is, people from the surrounding towns visit there, and that's the place to start.

If the star had been leading them all the way, why did they stop off in Jerusalem and ask where the King of the Jews had been born?

Brethren, the star only led them after they departed from Herod's palace.

 

[David Lamb]

Did you download the attached PDF file, in which I presented the three Gospel passages in their assumed, on my part, chronological order.

The Matthew 2:16 verse tells us that Herrod had all the children from two years old and younger killed in and around Bethlehem. However, this verse is silent as to the age of Jesus when Jospeh took, Mary, Jesus and himself down towards Egypt. The assumption that Jesus was around two years of age cannot be justified by that verse since the Scriptures are silent with respect to Jesus' age when they left to travel towards Egypt. How far into Egypt, Jospeh took them into Egypt is not given either.

Now if you had read the attached document, then you would have read my understand of Jesus' early life. If you believe that there are errors in that document, then please present your rationale to justify your conclusion of my error. I welcome correction to what I might believe.

Shalom

I did indeed download the document. Although it went into all sorts of detail about the early life of Jesus, I didn't see any particular reference to the wise men's visit. However, it was a longish document, and I may just have missed it. If so, perhaps you could quote the relevant part. Thanks.

 

[Jay Ross]

I did indeed download the document. Although it went into all sorts of detail about the early life of Jesus, I didn't see any particular reference to the wise men's visit. However, it was a longish document, and I may just have missed it. If so, perhaps you could quote the relevant part. Thanks.

Try page 5. If you look you will see this on that page:-



Perhaps it would be best for you to work your way through reading the PDF file, considering all the information that can be gleaned from the Gospel accounts. Given that the document presents a chronological timeline of the early life of Christ, all of what the document presents is important and will help people to understand the real story of Christ's birth and early life up and until He began His ministry.

Take your time and let the story soak in and how the "traditions" of the Christmas Story fade away as you read the Gospel account.

Given that Mary could only go up to the Temple to present herself and Jesus according to the Law, after 40 days had pasted. If Jesus was just under two years old before He was taken down to Egypt by Joseph, Jesus and Mary would have gone up from Bethlehem, but the Gospel account tells us that Joseph, Mary and Jesus came down from Nazareth to go to the temple to present Jesus to God in the Temple as the first fruits of Mary's womb. After they had visited the temple, they returned again to Nazareth. This fact alone suggests that the tradition of Jesus being around two years of age is undone.

Shalom

 

[David Lamb]

Try page 5. If you look you will see this on that page:-



Take your time and let the story soak in and how the "traditions" of the Christmas Story fade away as you read the Gospel account.

Given that Mary could only go up to the Temple to present herself and Jesus according to the Law, after 40 days had pasted. If Jesus was just under two years old before He was taken down to Egypt by Joseph, Jesus and Mary would have gone up from Bethlehem, but the Gospel account tells us that Joseph, Mary and Jesus came down from Nazareth to go to the temple to present Jesus to God in the Temple as the first fruits of Mary's womb. After they had visited the temple, they returned again to Nazareth. This fact alone suggests that the tradition of Jesus being around two years of age is undone.

Shalom

Obviously I have not had time yet to "let the story soak in", but I would just answer your final paragraph from Luke's gospel:

Luk 2:20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them.
Luk 2:21 And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called JESUS, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.
Luk 2:22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
Luk 2:23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "EVERY MALE WHO OPENS THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD" ),
Luk 2:24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS."

It doesn't tell us where they were at the time, either of the circumcision, or the end of Mary's days of purification. You say that the gospel account "tells us that Joseph, Mary and Jesus came down from Nazareth to go to the temple to present Jesus to God in the Temple as the first fruits of Mary's womb". Where does the gospel account say that?

 

[Jay Ross]

Obviously I have not had time yet to "let the story soak in", but I would just answer your final paragraph from Luke's gospel:

Luk 2:20 Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told them.
Luk 2:21 And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called JESUS, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.
Luk 2:22 Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
Luk 2:23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "EVERY MALE WHO OPENS THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD" ),
Luk 2:24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS."

It doesn't tell us where they were at the time, either of the circumcision, or the end of Mary's days of purification. You say that the gospel account "tells us that Joseph, Mary and Jesus came down from Nazareth to go to the temple to present Jesus to God in the Temple as the first fruits of Mary's womb". Where does the gospel account say that?

Perhaps Matthew 2:19-23 and Luke 2:39 is the answer to your question.

Also, there is a time gap between Luke 2:21 and Luke 2:22 during which time Joseph takes Meary and Jesus down to Egypt. Perhaps you need to start with a clean slate before you read my document because your blinkers are giving you grief.

Shalom

 

[David Lamb]

Perhaps Matthew 2:19-23 and Luke 2:39 is the answer to your question.

Also, there is a time gap between Luke 2:21 and Luke 2:22 during which time Joseph takes Meary and Jesus down to Egypt. Perhaps you need to start with a clean slate before you read my document because your blinkers are giving you grief.

Shalom

I believe that the flight to Egypt took place after the circumcision and Mary's purification. Circumcision took place 8 days after birth. Purification of the mother after a birth took place 33 days after that:

Lev 12:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean.
Lev 12:3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Lev 12:4 She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled.


You claim that between the circumcision and the purification, they travelled to Egypt, stayed there until Joseph was told about Herod's death, and then travelled back, all in 33 days? Besides, when they travelled back, they went to Nazareth, and avoided Judea:

Mat 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee.
Mat 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene."

It is specifically stated that they turned aside from Judea, which of course included Jerusalem.

 

[Jay Ross]

I believe that the flight to Egypt took place after the circumcision and Mary's purification. Circumcision took place 8 days after birth. Purification of the mother after a birth took place 33 days after that:

Lev 12:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean.
Lev 12:3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Lev 12:4 She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled.


You claim that between the circumcision and the purification, they travelled to Egypt, stayed there until Joseph was told about Herod's death, and then travelled back, all in 33 days? Besides, when they travelled back, they went to Nazareth, and avoided Judea:

Mat 2:22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee.
Mat 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene."

It is specifically stated that they turned aside from Judea, which of course included Jerusalem.

David,

When I began considering the early life of Jesus, I had to start with a clean slate and quickly discovered that the Christmas traditions that I had been taught did not add up and I had to piece together the story from all of the Gospels so that the story line of Jesus' conception, birth, his circumcision, the trip down to Egypt, their return to Israel and the journey up to Nazareth, and their journey to the temple from Nazareth to present Jesus to God as the first fruits of Mary's womb and the purification of Mary before returning back to Nazareth was consistent.

Using your previous understanding as a filter for judging the attached document that I provided does not allow you to consider that document honestly.

You can believe whatever story line that you want to with respect to the story of Jesus' conception, birth, journey to Egypt and the return to Nazareth which was then followed by Jesus's presentation to God in the Temple in Jerusalem and their return back home to Nazareth afterwards.

It is my view that I have presented an accurate account in the file I had attached for you to read.

Because you only want to believe your own understanding, I am afraid that this conversation between us cannot continue further.

Shalom

 

[Fred J]

Before Joseph and Mary got betroth, they lived in Nazareth a small town in Galilee.

Apparently being around both of their families and friends in union, Jesus could have been born there and brought up in the first place.

On the contrary, everything works in order to GOD's will and that HIS prophecy prophesied must come to pass accordingly.

Ironically all of a sudden, the Roman called for all Israelites to take their census and when Mary was heavily pregnant.

And taking of census had to take place in Bethlehem amd not supposedly Jerusalem the 'capital', which is 10 kilometres apart.

On the way back, Mary was 'due' and lodgings were all full therefore desparately she had to give birth in a manger, and it had to be in Bethlehem.

And there the shepherds in the field were commissioned by angel to become the firsthand eyewitnesses of this birth.

As a result what was prophesied in part about this special child, and by GOD's will did come to pass.

Later in Bethlehem the couple moved into a house where the wise men became the second eyewitnesses.

Therefore is the will of GOD that the couple and child had to run and live in Egypt for a time, rather than getting rid of Herod is easy.

But at an appointed time as GOD will, when Herod was dealth with, the family had to come out of Egypt.

And that too by GOD's will the prophecy must come to pass, that out of Egypt HE called out HIS Son.

Hence even when Joseph chose to return back to Jesus' birth place but there was a hurdle Herod's son, that he had to choose Nazareth.

Apparently Jesus had to be brought up in Nazareth, so that by GOD's will and what prophesied must come to pass that He shall be called a Nazarene.

Proverbs 16:
9. A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

 

[Jay Ross]

Before Joseph and Mary got betroth, they lived in Nazareth a small town in Galilee.

Apparently being around both of their families and friends in union, Jesus could have been born there in the first place.

On the contrary, everything works in order to GOD's will and that HIS prophecy prophesied must come to pass accordingly.

Ironically all of a sudden, the Roman called for all Israelites to take their census and when Mary was heavily pregnant.

And taking of census had to take place in Bethlehem amd not supposedly Jerusalem the 'capital', which is 10 kilometres apart.

On the way back, Mary was 'due' and lodgings were all full therefore desparately she had to give birth in a manger, and it had to be in Bethlehem.

And there the shepherds in the field were commissioned by angel to become the firsthand eyewitnesses of this birth.

As a result what was prophesied in part about this special child, and by GOD's will did come to pass.

I can agree with the above.

Later in Bethlehem the couple moved into a house where the wise men became the second eyewitnesses.

This statement is not true in part. The wise men saw Jesus where he was living, I assume still in the Stable, however the scriptures are silent on this detail.

Therefore is the will of GOD that the couple and child had to run and live in Egypt for a time, rather than getting rid of Herod is easy.

But at an appointed time as GOD will, when Herod was dealt with, the family had to come out of Egypt.

And that too by GOD's will the prophecy must come to pass, that out of Egypt HE called out HIS Son.

Hence even when Joseph chose to return back to Jesus' birth place but there was a hurdle Herod's son, that he had to choose Nazareth.

Apparently Jesus had to be brought up in Nazareth, so that by GOD's will and what prophesied must come to pass that He shall be called a Nazarene.

All of the above happened in a very short duration. Jesus' birth in Bethlehem, the Shepherds coming to worship the baby Jesus almost immediately after Christ's birth. A couple of days later the wise men came and worshiped the Christ and returned home by a different route. Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day, possibly in Bethlehem but more likely during the journey down to Egypt. After Herod died six days after the children died in Bethlehem, Joseph and family returned to Judea, but decided to return to Galilee and to live in Nazareth. After forty days, Joseph and family travelled down to the Temple in Jerusalem to present Jesus to God and for Mary to be ritually purified before then returning to Nazareth.

A number of prophetic words as you have suggested had to be fulfilled during Jesus' early life.

Shalom

PS : - in post #4 above in this thread I had attached a PDF file which can be downloaded, and open to read which sets out what I believe is the chronological order of the events surrounding the early years of Christ life. I suggest that you peruse the pdf file and see if it presents Christ's early life in an orderly fashion.

 

[David Lamb]

David,

When I began considering the early life of Jesus, I had to start with a clean slate and quickly discovered that the Christmas traditions that I had been taught did not add up and I had to piece together the story from all of the Gospels so that the story line of Jesus' conception, birth, his circumcision, the trip down to Egypt, their return to Israel and the journey up to Nazareth, and their journey to the temple from Nazareth to present Jesus to God as the first fruits of Mary's womb and the purification of Mary before returning back to Nazareth was consistent.

Using your previous understanding as a filter for judging the attached document that I provided does not allow you to consider that document honestly.

You can believe whatever story line that you want to with respect to the story of Jesus' conception, birth, journey to Egypt and the return to Nazareth which was then followed by Jesus's presentation to God in the Temple in Jerusalem and their return back home to Nazareth afterwards.

It is my view that I have presented an accurate account in the file I had attached for you to read.

Because you only want to believe your own understanding, I am afraid that this conversation between us cannot continue further.

Shalom

That is fine. I was about to suggest that we brought this discussion to a close myself. Thanks for provoking thought on the matter.

 

[Fred J]

This statement is not true in part. The wise men saw Jesus where he was living, I assume still in the Stable, however the scriptures are silent on this detail.

Luke 2:
16. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

When Jesus was just born a baby it was in a manger.

Matthew 2:
11. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, .........................................

When Jesus grew into a young child roughly below 2 years of age, he was already in a house because the wise men came into the house.

All of the above happened in a very short duration. Jesus' birth in Bethlehem, the Shepherds coming to worship the baby Jesus almost immediately after Christ's birth.

Scripture doesn't support that the shepherds worshiped Jesus, but rather they spoke what was the saying told to them concerning this child.

A couple of days later the wise men came and worshiped the Christ and returned home by a different route.

When Herod sort out the birth of Jesus and the time the star was seen information, some how decided the time frame would be 2 years and below.

So he is determine some or rather the child would be around that age and will be killed along, and apparently he would have achieved it.

That's why beforehand the angel warned and called the parents to flee with the child to Egypt and remain.

Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day, possibly in Bethlehem but more likely during the journey down to Egypt.

It was in Bethlehem, eighth day probably from the manger they would have moved in into a house.

Only in desparation Mary was due to give birth, they had no choice but to have it done in a manger.

After Herod died six days after the children died in Bethlehem, Joseph and family returned to Judea, but decided to return to Galilee and to live in Nazareth.

Because of Herod's son after him, who was the tetrarch of Judea at that time.

After forty days, Joseph and family travelled down to the Temple in Jerusalem to present Jesus to God and for Mary to be ritually purified before then returning to Nazareth.

Correct

A number of prophetic words as you have suggested had to be fulfilled during Jesus' early life.

It was also prophetically growing up a Nazarene ubtil 30 years of age, since is written, 'He shall be called a Nazarene'.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fred J]

After 30 years of age a Nazarene prophetically, Jesus then was baptized by John the Baptist and became the Son of GOD.

Soon after the Holy Ghost decended on Jesus, GOD's voice was heard from Heaven delcaring, 'MY beloved whom I AM well pleased'.

That's why Jesus Himself baptized, apparently in faith burying a Nazarene and coming out the Son of GOD.

 

[Fred J]

After 30 years of age a Nazarene prophetically, Jesus then was baptized by John the Baptist and became the Son of GOD.

Soon after the Holy Ghost decended on Jesus, GOD's voice was heard from Heaven delcaring, 'MY beloved whom I AM well pleased'.

That's why Jesus Himself baptized, apparently in faith burying a Nazarene and coming out the Son of GOD.

That's why after this He had no recollection and reconnection with His past life, while the things and people of His past tried to.

But there was some, if am not mistaken in the case of Lazarus, Martha and Mary.

 

[Rockerduck]

We must remember that Matthew and Luke got the birth of Jesus story from the only source, Mary. So, all this is from the memory of Mary. Matthew definitely knew Mary as the disciples and Jesus's earth family traveled together. Both left out conspicuous details that God wanted not to be revealed, like Jesus birth day, that a Mother never forgets.