Birth of Jesus Christ

[Fred J]

We must remember that Matthew and Luke got the birth of Jesus story from the only source, Mary. So, all this is from the memory of Mary. Matthew definitely knew Mary as the disciples and Jesus's earth family traveled together. Both left out conspicuous details that God wanted not to be revealed, like Jesus birth day, that a Mother never forgets.

For the record, 2Timothy 3:16&17 is the compiled written source for us today, and also the Holy Ghost who lead us to the full truth from it,

That's a false gospel you're referrimg to and is not welcomed in this Bible Study Forum.

Only the 12 men including Matthew are the personally chosen disciples of Jesus and GOD, besides others are disciples on their own, and we have account on many of them stop following Jesus.

And before Jesus' ascensiion, He commissioned only the 11 as Apostles to take His discipled Gospel to the ends of the earth, and later Apostle Paul for further clarification to the Gospel.

 

[Rockerduck]

For the record, 2Timothy 3:16&17 is the compiled written source for us today, and also the Holy Ghost who lead us to the full truth from it,

That's a false gospel you're referrimg to and is not welcomed in this Bible Study Forum.

Only the 12 men including Matthew are the personally chosen disciples of Jesus and GOD, besides others are disciples on their own, and we have account on many of them stop following Jesus.

And before Jesus' ascensiion, He commissioned only the 11 as Apostles to take His discipled Gospel to the ends of the earth, and later Apostle Paul for further clarification to the Gospel.

How does that disagree with Matthew and Luke knowing Mary?

 

[David Lamb]

After 30 years of age a Nazarene prophetically, Jesus then was baptized by John the Baptist and became the Son of GOD.

Soon after the Holy Ghost decended on Jesus, GOD's voice was heard from Heaven delcaring, 'MY beloved whom I AM well pleased'.

That's why Jesus Himself baptized, apparently in faith burying a Nazarene and coming out the Son of GOD.

I would only disagree with the word "became." Jesus Christ did not become the Son of God at His baptism. He has always been the Son of God. Mary was told:

Luk 1:35 NKJV And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Also, John says that God sent His Son into the world, not someone who would become His Son:

Jhn 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

[Jay Ross]

All of the above happened in a very short duration. Jesus' birth in Bethlehem, the Shepherds coming to worship the baby Jesus almost immediately after Christ's birth. A couple of days later the wise men came and worshiped the Christ and returned home by a different route. Jesus was circumcised on the eighth day, possibly in Bethlehem but more likely during the journey down to Egypt. After Herod died six days after the children died in Bethlehem, Joseph and family returned to Judea, but decided to return to Galilee and to live in Nazareth. After forty days, Joseph and family travelled down to the Temple in Jerusalem to present Jesus to God and for Mary to be ritually purified before then returning to Nazareth.

Correct

Ah Fred, you cannot have it both ways by claiming that Jesus was around two years of age when the wise men saw Jesus before going down to Egypt and then returning to Nazareth before then going down to the Temple in Jerusalem to present Jesus, as was required by the Law and for Mary to be purified which occurred shortly after 40 days from Jesus' birth had passed. Your claims that the wise men entered a house is also not what scriptures suggest. We are told that the star stopped over the place where Jesus was laid and they entered where Joseph and Mary were living. Their abode was the stables where Jesus was born.

Shalom

 

[Fred J]

How does that disagree with Matthew and Luke knowing Mary?

Sorry readers, was busy and held back, as we do go through tribulation, either for doing right or wrong, thank you.

About this matter, them knowing Mary, yes, as she was at one time a follower of Jesus with other women who provided the physical needs of Jesus and His disciples who were specifically about the Kingdom of GOD..

But there's no Biblical account that Matthew and Luke's source was Mary, and even ever had conversation with her at all.

These are rather speculation by Heathens and false church heretics who in ignorance fabricate many other stories, about another jesus and spirit.

Why not truthfully their very reliable source about the Son that is to know, even after His ascension, furthermore to put into writing and compilation by others overall?

Was none other than GOD the FATHER HIMSELF in the beginning and the Holy Ghost their 'Helper' and 'Comforter' after FATHER and Son.

As it is written, 'All scripture is breathed out by GOD, .........................................................' (2Timothy3:16&17)

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

I would only disagree with the word "became." Jesus Christ did not become the Son of God at His baptism. He has always been the Son of God. Mary was told:

Indeed He was all the way the Son of GOD, even at 12 to proclim about His FATHER's business, yet soon after that He became silent and obedient under the gudiance of the parents. (His so called absent years)

Since He was also the Son of man from the line of David, also a Nazarene He shall be called, and by the Law as any other Israelite until 30 years of age.

Apparently after being baptized by John the Baptist and by the Holy Ghost, and the introduction of GOD the FATHER, there was a 'shift' of personality.

The parent, half-siblings or the Israelites, even to the leaders, had no authority or say over Him, but rather from then on authority under GOD the FATHER alone.

i meant it in this sense of narative.

Luk 1:35 NKJV And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

This and among others, where scripture account teaches us that Mary herself could not comprehend all these that were foretold about the Son, beginning with the shepherds.

But rather she kept them all in her heart, unsure and unable to make sense out of it all, even occassions confromting the Son not in a spiritual discerned manner compared to the disciples.

Her legacy and ministry ended being the blessed woman among all other women on earth, who mothered the Lord, and soon after the Son made her the mother of John the Apostle.

 

[Fred J]

Also, John says that God sent His Son into the world, not someone who would become His Son:

Again, the Son is the Son of GOD and Son of man.

Jhn 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Agreed it's the truth, yet the Son did condemn the 'hypocrites' and 'brood of vipers', for them to repent and not harden their hearts..

 

[Fred J]

Ah Fred, you cannot have it both ways by claiming that Jesus was around two years of age when the wise men saw Jesus before going down to Egypt and then returning to Nazareth before then going down to the Temple in Jerusalem to present Jesus, as was required by the Law and for Mary to be purified which occurred shortly after 40 days from Jesus' birth had passed.

You have them all confused.

Everything in regards infant Jesus, even to the purification of Mary by the Law have been accomplished and since come to pass.

From infant Jesus is now a child already, around 2 years or below in age, as even Herod targeted based on reliable consultation from the wise men.

Moreover that's when the wise men visited the family in a 'house' (not manger and have given the verse), and departed in another way avoiding Herod and his plot.

Then came the warning for the parents to flee to Egypt, and then back to Nazareth once again, where Jesus since shall be called a Nazarene.

Your claims that the wise men entered a house is also not what scriptures suggest.

Matthew 2:
11. And when they were come into the house(not manger), they saw the child(not infant) with Mary His mother, .....................................

Where is your scripture quote that suggest not?

 

[David Lamb]

Again, the Son is the Son of GOD and Son of man.

Agreed it's the truth, yet the Son did condemn the 'hypocrites' and 'brood of vipers', for them to repent and not harden their hearts..

Yes, I agree with that - it was only your notion of Jesus becoming the Son of God that I didn't agree with.

 

[Fred J]

Yes, I agree with that - it was only your notion of Jesus becoming the Son of God that I didn't agree with.

It's not my 'notion', but rather the scripture in context narative that you're unable to 'perceive' the 'shift' of personality and person.

It was only the time when Jesus Himself was baptized as well with water and the Holy Ghost, the very audioable voice of GOD the FATHER declared publicly HIS beloved whom HE's well pleased.

Besides that what was foretold before and since His birth, neither His parents who kept them in their heart nor the Israelites, could comprehend, nor was His time then.

Even John the Baptist, was foretold to the parents, but when he was at a certain age moved out from his parents, lived in the cave and wilderness, manifested since in the spirit of Elijah.

It's been 'heard', proclaimed 'orally' at first and written down later for the church to be discipled and witness to the world.

Prior to this only one time at 12 of age, Jesus said to His parents whom unable to comprehend also that He's about His Heavenly FATHER's business.

After that there's no news of Him, as the Son of man (even though Son of GOD), He had to obey His parents then on, lived by the Law Himself, and a Nazarene He grew until 30 years of age.

In other words, He wasn't the same person and personality when He became the Son of GOD full time, beginning with the wedding in Canaan, He caled His mother 'woman', not 'mother'.

Hope you get the point and not contend because am right according to the context of scripture and narrative within, thank you.

But i agree with you that at all the time, even before birth in the spirit He was the Son of GOD and Lord from Heaven, who became flesh as the Son of man to Joseph and Mary.

 

[Rockerduck]

Sorry readers, was busy and held back, as we do go through tribulation, either for doing right or wrong, thank you.

About this matter, them knowing Mary, yes, as she was at one time a follower of Jesus with other women who provided the physical needs of Jesus and His disciples who were specifically about the Kingdom of GOD..

But there's no Biblical account that Matthew and Luke's source was Mary, and even ever had conversation with her at all.

These are rather speculation by Heathens and false church heretics who in ignorance fabricate many other stories, about another jesus and spirit.

Why not truthfully their very reliable source about the Son that is to know, even after His ascension, furthermore to put into writing and compilation by others overall?

Was none other than GOD the FATHER HIMSELF in the beginning and the Holy Ghost their 'Helper' and 'Comforter' after FATHER and Son.

As it is written, 'All scripture is breathed out by GOD, .........................................................' (2Timothy3:16&17)

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

Luke 1:1- Now many have undertaken to compile an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 like the accounts passed on to us by those who were eyewitnesses and servants of the word "from the beginning". 3 So it seemed good to me as well, because I have followed all things carefully" from the beginning", to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know for certain the things you were taught.

Luke wrote everything down and investigated to write a complete orderly account. Just because Dr. Luke did not give a list of those he got information from does not negate his investigation "from the beginning". Proof is in his work. "from the beginning" indicates he had talked to the eye witness's; and all the apostles, Mary and her other sons and daughters were still alive. Mark 6:3

 

[David Lamb]

It's not my 'notion', but rather the scripture in context narative that you're unable to 'perceive' the 'shift' of personality and person.

It was only the time when Jesus Himself was baptized as well with water and the Holy Ghost, the very audioable voice of GOD the FATHER declared publicly HIS beloved whom HE's well pleased.

Besides that what was foretold before and since His birth, neither His parents who kept them in their heart nor the Israelites, could comprehend, nor was His time then.

Even John the Baptist, was foretold to the parents, but when he was at a certain age moved out from his parents, lived in the cave and wilderness, manifested since in the spirit of Elijah.

It's been 'heard', proclaimed 'orally' at first and written down later for the church to be discipled and witness to the world.

Prior to this only one time at 12 of age, Jesus said to His parents whom unable to comprehend also that He's about His Heavenly FATHER's business.

After that there's no news of Him, as the Son of man (even though Son of GOD), He had to obey His parents then on, lived by the Law Himself, and a Nazarene He grew until 30 years of age.

In other words, He wasn't the same person and personality when He became the Son of GOD full time, beginning with the wedding in Canaan, He caled His mother 'woman', not 'mother'.

Hope you get the point and not contend because am right according to the context of scripture and narrative within, thank you.

But i agree with you that at all the time, even before birth in the spirit He was the Son of GOD and Lord from Heaven, who became flesh as the Son of man to Joseph and Mary.

I do agree that that was when He was publicly declared to be God's Son. But God the Father didn't say at the baptism of Jesus, "This One has now become My Son." If all you are saying is that He was first publicly declared to be the Son of God at His baptism, I agree. Yes, He obeyed His parents. But at the age of 12, He said after Mary and Joseph had been searching for Him:

NKJV Luk 2:49 And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?"

He meant God's business, not Joseph's.

I agree with your final sentence.

Thanks for making me think.