Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[rebuilder 454]

DOTL = day of the Lord.


Both Pretribbers and Preterists, and anyone else doing what they are wrongly doing, need to start paying closer attention to details and quit twisting the texts involved in order to get the DOTL to fit where it doesn't remotely fit. The DOTL does not fit at the beginning of great tribulation. It fits after great tribulation proved by all of the following. And there is even more passages than the following that proves it except I'm not going to list every single passage that might prove it.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What I have underlined in verse 29 also depicts darkness, and that we are told the time of this darkness does not precede the beginning of great tribulation, it immediately follows great tribulation.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

What I have underlined in verse 12 and 13 also depicts darkness, and is obviously referring to the same time period and events Matthew 24:29 is.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

The DOTL involves both wrath and fierce anger.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


And so does this involve wrath. And that you can't have wrath without fierce anger. The text indicates that the great day of his wrath is come, and not, His great day of wrath already came earlier before the time of the 6th seal. That is a contradiction if it is not until the time of the 6th seal that His great day of wrath has initially come.



Something else I would like to point out. The first trumpet is not meaning chronologically sometime later following the events recorded in the 6th seal. It is not logical that the first trumpet can follow after the 6th seal since the 5th seal must precede the 6th seal, and that the 5th seal, for example, meaning this---a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled(Revelation 6:11)---is involving the time of the 6th trumpet(Revelation 11:2,7, Revelation 13:5,7,15)

And that Revelation 6:17 is involving the era of time and events that Revelation 11:15,18 is involving.

Therefore, How can trumpet 1 follow the 5th and 6th seal when the 5th seal is involving the 6th trumpet, and that the 6th seal is involving the 7th trumpet? Since when does the number 6 and number 7 precede the number 1 rather than follows it?

IOW, trumpet 1 comes before trumpet 6 and 7. Seriously, who could be that bad at math where they have 6 and 7 meaning before 1 rather than after 1? Nobody, right? Once again, the fact the 6th trumpet involves the 5th seal, the 7th trumpet involves the 6th seal, clearly tells any objective person not placing their doctrinal bias' above that of common sense, that this means that the first trumpet can't be meaning after the 5th and 6th seal in that case, since it causes a mathematical impossibility with the 7 trumpets if trumpet 6 and 7 correlate with seal 5 and 6.

That puts you at a postwrath model.
Rev 19 is the only place Where Jesus comes in power and great glory. And that is on the white horses post wrath, and pre millennium.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, he is coming for his bride. It is slightly ironic the ones that are waiting for the antichrist white horse rider will actually get their wish.

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

 

[Davy]

This seems like an immediately contradictory statement in and of itself. Sudden destruction comes upon Satan and his minions but does not destroy him yet? I mean... okay... not going to argue, but yeah, self-contradictory it is...

So... per your view the wicked do not have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ after His future return?

2 Cor 5:8-10
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
10 For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
KJV

Regarding Satan on that "day of the Lord", the day of Paul's "sudden destruction", this is what God's Word says about it...

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

Do you see above any mention of the "dragon" (Satan) being cast into that "lake of fire" on that day of Christ's return? No, you do not... because in the next Revelation 20 Chapter we are told why the "dragon" (Satan) is not destroyed yet...


Rev 20:1-3
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
KJV

I really don't why I waste time answering you, since you so blatantly omit the above Rev.20 Scripture because of your man-made Amill doctrines.

 

[amigo de christo]

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

do you ever get the feeling that many will be decieved and will indeed take such a mark
DO you e ver get the feeling that many now even are decieved and are following another spirit
and that this spirit can USE THE NAME OF EVEN JESUS and yet preaches another jesus and another gospel .
DO you ever get the feeling there are many anti christs already at work and all they do is prepare this world
by kind and good sounding ideals UNTO THE BIG ONE and unto the day the world ends for such rebellion against GOD .
DO you ever get the feeling that the true saints who conformed not
to this inclusive god so many now love and embrace are about to be GREATLY and MASSIVELY Persecuted
and that those who do so will BELIEVE THEY DO GODS WILL .
IF you said yes to all of the above , YOUR E YES CAN SEE and your ears can surely HEAR .
The signs of the times are all around us
and the blind cannot see the forest but the sheep can see the forest .
And every time the sheep says LOOK here THIS IS THE FOREST
they respond in kind with , HEY DUMBIES that aint no forest its just trillions of trees .
A DELUSION OF ALL OUT REPRBATION is the cause of this my friend .
FOR THOUGH HE CALLED THEY DID NOT ANSWER
FOR THOUGH HE sent men to warn they ran them off as haters .
And CAST HIS WORDS BEHIND THEM in favor of a false love and of a god that has promised them their hearts desires
with world peace and a world of peace n safety IF they heed its dire solution .
AND its solution , oh yes my friend , OH YES i say , YOU can bet its solution is gonna be just
as anti christ , just as against the TRUTH as these churches and society are now becoming
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is , ITS WORDS WILL BECOME MANDATORY LAWS and sheep WILL BE KILLED . oh yes
david what i say to you i say to all , THE HOUR of our betrayer and of our own betrayal is at hand .

 

[amigo de christo]

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

what concerns me is not so much he will be here .
But that which concerns me is , DUE TO CERTAIN beleifs folks have ,
WILL they even see what is very clearly , TO THE SHEEP , what is being offered to them .
FOR MANY , i say many will b eleive what is being offered unto them IS a solution for world peace
and for the good of this earth and all of humanity .
ONLY THE SHEEP will realize that is being offered IS THE MARK . and you can MARK THEM WORDS WELL . yeah i said it .
CAUSE ITS TRUE david . they gonna run to the solution beleiving every bit that GOD was behind it
IT WAS HIS PLAN and HIS SOLUTION for to bring PEACE ON EARTH . and he who recieves not the mark
WILL be unable to buy and to sell IN THE BiG OL DIGITAL SQUARE by whom IT WILL BE ENFORCED .
This people cannot see what is or what is coming or where or to whom its leading them all .
BUT the sheep can . FOR JESUS has them and faithful unto death they shall surely be .

 

[David in NJ]

what concerns me is not so much he will be here .
But that which concerns me is , DUE TO CERTAIN beleifs folks have ,
WILL they even see what is very clearly , TO THE SHEEP , what is being offered to them .
FOR MANY , i say many will b eleive what is being offered unto them IS a solution for world peace
and for the good of this earth and all of humanity .
ONLY THE SHEEP will realize that is being offered IS THE MARK . and you can MARK THEM WORDS WELL . yeah i said it .
CAUSE ITS TRUE david . they gonna run to the solution beleiving every bit that GOD was behind it
IT WAS HIS PLAN and HIS SOLUTION for to bring PEACE ON EARTH . and he who recieves not the mark
WILL be unable to buy and to sell IN THE BiG OL DIGITAL SQUARE by whom IT WILL BE ENFORCED .
This people cannot see what is or what is coming or where or to whom its leading them all .
BUT the sheep can . FOR JESUS has them and faithful unto death they shall surely be .

I heard a pastor on the radio say these words:
"Pre-trib rapture will prevent us from taking the MoB for if we are still here then it is not the MoB and therefore it is safe to take it."

 

[amigo de christo]

I heard a pastor on the radio say these words:
"Pre-trib rapture will prevent us from taking the MoB for if we are still here then it is not the MoB and therefore it is safe to take it."

And now a word .
BINGO .

 

[amigo de christo]

I heard a pastor on the radio say these words:
"Pre-trib rapture will prevent us from taking the MoB for if we are still here then it is not the MoB and therefore it is safe to take it."

you aint the only one who has heard this . AND it aint just been A pastor who has said such .
Unless A means more and more .
I BEEN SEEING THIS and its been only increasing in number of those who tell and do say it . and worse the number is climbing
in those who DO BELEIVE THIS TOO . that number is getting quite high . YOU ever get the feeling
that many are in LOVE with THIS LIFE , THIS WORLD and things of THIS WORLD .
IF SO , YOU SPOT ON RIGHT .

 

[amigo de christo]

I heard a pastor on the radio say these words:
"Pre-trib rapture will prevent us from taking the MoB for if we are still here then it is not the MoB and therefore it is safe to take it."

now allow me to also rephrase my friend .
DO you ever get the feeling that many who sit under such fibs
truly have ZERO desire to suffer for CHRIST and had rather sit under a jesus
that promises them THAT IN THIS LIFE ye SHALL NOT HAVE TRIBULATIONS
but rather a free ticket out of here BEFORE such cometh upon YOU .
IF SO . YOU AG AIN would be spot on right .
SO now allow me to rebuke them and those who follow this other jesus by the very words of JESUS
and then later an apostel who KNEW HIM .
IN THIS WORLD YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATIONS
THE TIME WILL COME when those who put you to death will beleive they do the will of GOD .
Children will bet ray parents and parents children BUT HE who ENDURES TO THE END the same SHALL BE SAVED .
and now a word from this apostel i spoke of
FOR NOT ONLY is it given unto you TO BELEIVE ON HIM but also TO SUFFER F OR Him .
NOW HOW come the early church always prepared their own TO SUFFER FOR HIM , FOR PERSEUCTIONS
FOR TRIBULATIONS
TELLING THEM EVEN as did paul , THIS IS A MANIFEST TOKEN of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD
for which you SUFFER for the kingdom .
HOW come they said things like, DO not be MOVED by such afllictions
BUT THAT WE ARE APPOINTED UNTO SUCH . THAT through GREAT tribulations YE must enter INTO THE KINGDOM of GOD .
AND YET TODAY its all about ESCAPING such suffering and tribulation .
SOMEONE and i mean MANY someones ARE BEING LIED TOO david . AND worse
and i do mean much worse THEY ARE LOVING IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

I heard a pastor on the radio say these words:
"Pre-trib rapture will prevent us from taking the MoB for if we are still here then it is not the MoB and therefore it is safe to take it."

another once said , if we are here and they ask us to put anything into the body , say a chip
a , t attoe , ITS NOT THE MARK . cause we wont be here for that . RATHER , he cliamed
the SIX hundred three score and six mark part GETS ADDED IN later .
IN O THER WORDS , THEY DUPED dude . duped .
Ev en worse i have heard a few say
EVEN IF ONE TAKES THE VERY MARK , and i do mean MARK OF THE BEAST , THEY CAN STILL BE FORGIVEN .
NOW i want YOU and any other man to SHOW ME WHERE GOD said that .
I will show us what GOD said . IF ANY , ANY one does take the mark of the beast , the number of his name
etc , FRIEND HE IS DAMNED WITH NO MERCY , HIS TORMENT rises up forever and ever
WHO SO EVER TAKETH the mark of the beast and etc .
THIS PEOPLE DO NOTHING but prepare their own TO HONOR , TO LOVE , TO RECIEVE the beast , his name and HIS MARK .
AND i wont be heeding a word one outta they lips . I PRAY TO GOD NONE DO .

 

[Gray_Joy]

DOTL = day of the Lord.


Both Pretribbers and Preterists, and anyone else doing what they are wrongly doing, need to start paying closer attention to details and quit twisting the texts involved in order to get the DOTL to fit where it doesn't remotely fit. The DOTL does not fit at the beginning of great tribulation. It fits after great tribulation proved by all of the following. And there is even more passages than the following that proves it except I'm not going to list every single passage that might prove it.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

What I have underlined in verse 29 also depicts darkness, and that we are told the time of this darkness does not precede the beginning of great tribulation, it immediately follows great tribulation.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

What I have underlined in verse 12 and 13 also depicts darkness, and is obviously referring to the same time period and events Matthew 24:29 is.

Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

The DOTL involves both wrath and fierce anger.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


And so does this involve wrath. And that you can't have wrath without fierce anger. The text indicates that the great day of his wrath is come, and not, His great day of wrath already came earlier before the time of the 6th seal. That is a contradiction if it is not until the time of the 6th seal that His great day of wrath has initially come.



Something else I would like to point out. The first trumpet is not meaning chronologically sometime later following the events recorded in the 6th seal. It is not logical that the first trumpet can follow after the 6th seal since the 5th seal must precede the 6th seal, and that the 5th seal, for example, meaning this---a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled(Revelation 6:11)---is involving the time of the 6th trumpet(Revelation 11:2,7, Revelation 13:5,7,15)

And that Revelation 6:17 is involving the era of time and events that Revelation 11:15,18 is involving.

Therefore, How can trumpet 1 follow the 5th and 6th seal when the 5th seal is involving the 6th trumpet, and that the 6th seal is involving the 7th trumpet? Since when does the number 6 and number 7 precede the number 1 rather than follows it?

IOW, trumpet 1 comes before trumpet 6 and 7. Seriously, who could be that bad at math where they have 6 and 7 meaning before 1 rather than after 1? Nobody, right? Once again, the fact the 6th trumpet involves the 5th seal, the 7th trumpet involves the 6th seal, clearly tells any objective person not placing their doctrinal bias' above that of common sense, that this means that the first trumpet can't be meaning after the 5th and 6th seal in that case, since it causes a mathematical impossibility with the 7 trumpets if trumpet 6 and 7 correlate with seal 5 and 6.

I wanted to address these two passages in your post. With you or anyone who cares to answer.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

If the Day of the Lord is the day of God's wrath or,the Great Tribulation, and the Amos verse says we would not want to suffer through that,why would we think God would let us to?

When the GT is supposed to be Gods wrath falling upon an unbelieving world.
Right?

How then would believers be there too?

 

[RedLetterJoe]

I used to be a Pre Tribber. I've even been a Partial Preterist. Full Dispensational? Yep. But that was before I met Christ.

Charismatic? Been down that road too, still travel there from time to time. I once even believed myself to be a prophet, a poet, ahhh the follies of youth.

Last year I nearly converted to orthodoxy, couldn't get past the icons, and the enlistment to liturgy.

Some days I reckon myself a man of great prayer, a man of learning and wisdom, and then I forget to be kind, forget to love my neighbor, or wander off alone, not to be closer to God, but further away from Him.

Maybe its because I know that I am unworthy to be allowed into His presence. And yet here I am, right in the center of His will. Right where I have always been.

All my doctrines be damned, all my self righteousness, self exaltation, and foolish pride. I know nothing. Apart from Him I am less than nothing. But in Him, where I live and move and have my being, I have everything that pertains to life and faith and righteousness.

For me, every day is the Day of the Lord.

In this life I will have suffering, tribulation and trial. To the degree that I endeavor to follow in the steps of my Master, those trials will likely increase, or so experience has taught me.

Or maybe I'm just wrong about everything. It matters not at all. Christ loves me, I know this because He revealed it to me. And I love Him too, imperfectly, ignorantly, foolishly, kinda like a child loves.

Above all else we need to walk in that love, love God and love each other, He told us so. But not all hear Him, or respond to His command. And those who do, never do so at all times. But that is all about to change, and soon.

Sorry, I've been rambling.



9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Many such like things...

The words that He speaks are Spirit, and they are Truth.

There will not be a doctrinal quiz at the pearly gates.

And every one of us will have discovered that our eschatology was sorely lacking, if not completely in error.

 

[David in NJ]

I wanted to address these two passages in your post. With you or anyone who cares to answer.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

If the Day of the Lord is the day of God's wrath or,the Great Tribulation, and the Amos verse says we would not want to suffer through that,why would we think God would let us to?

When the GT is supposed to be Gods wrath falling upon an unbelieving world.
Right?

How then would believers be there too?

#1 - The DotL is not the Great Tribulation - it is the Day of the Wrath of the LAMB and of God

#2 - Amos 5:18 is addressed to those Jews who thought they are righteous before God and that the Judgment that is Coming is only upon their enemies.

#3 - These same Jews are alive today as they fully believe that Jesus Christ and His followers, the Gentiles, are the enemies of Moses/Law and of God.

#4 - In a similar way, the doctrine of pre-trib, as many christians are basing their hope on "God is love and would never hurt His Bride"
Therefore, when the MoB comes here to USA, there will be a great time of stress upon pre-tribbers who were expecting escape from tribulation, persecution and death for the Name of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

I used to be a Pre Tribber. I've even been a Partial Preterist. Full Dispensational? Yep. But that was before I met Christ.

Charismatic? Been down that road too, still travel there from time to time. I once even believed myself to be a prophet, a poet, ahhh the follies of youth.

Last year I nearly converted to orthodoxy, couldn't get past the icons, and the enlistment to liturgy.

Some days I reckon myself a man of great prayer, a man of learning and wisdom, and then I forget to be kind, forget to love my neighbor, or wander off alone, not to be closer to God, but further away from Him.

Maybe its because I know that I am unworthy to be allowed into His presence. And yet here I am, right in the center of His will. Right where I have always been.

All my doctrines be damned, all my self righteousness, self exaltation, and foolish pride. I know nothing. Apart from Him I am less than nothing. But in Him, where I live and move and have my being, I have everything that pertains to life and faith and righteousness.

For me, every day is the Day of the Lord.

In this life I will have suffering, tribulation and trial. To the degree that I endeavor to follow in the steps of my Master, those trials will likely increase, or so experience has taught me.

Or maybe I'm just wrong about everything. It matters not at all. Christ loves me, I know this because He revealed it to me. And I love Him too, imperfectly, ignorantly, foolishly, kinda like a child loves.

Above all else we need to walk in that love, love God and love each other, He told us so. But not all hear Him, or respond to His command. And those who do, never do so at all times. But that is all about to change, and soon.

Sorry, I've been rambling.



9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Many such like things...

The words that He speaks are Spirit, and they are Truth.

There will not be a doctrinal quiz at the pearly gates.

And every one of us will have discovered that our eschatology was sorely lacking, if not completely in error.

Thank You Joe for the open and honest confession of faith in CHRIST as well as our weaknesses.

i can attest to similar in my own life and the daily need of the Holy Spirit, Grace and His Mercy that i may have love for others

 

[Marvelloustime]

another once said , if we are here and they ask us to put anything into the body , say a chip
a , t attoe , ITS NOT THE MARK . cause we wont be here for that . RATHER , he cliamed
the SIX hundred three score and six mark part GETS ADDED IN later .
IN O THER WORDS , THEY DUPED dude . duped .
Ev en worse i have heard a few say
EVEN IF ONE TAKES THE VERY MARK , and i do mean MARK OF THE BEAST , THEY CAN STILL BE FORGIVEN .
NOW i want YOU and any other man to SHOW ME WHERE GOD said that .
I will show us what GOD said . IF ANY , ANY one does take the mark of the beast , the number of his name
etc , FRIEND HE IS DAMNED WITH NO MERCY , HIS TORMENT rises up forever and ever
WHO SO EVER TAKETH the mark of the beast and etc .
THIS PEOPLE DO NOTHING but prepare their own TO HONOR , TO LOVE , TO RECIEVE the beast , his name and HIS MARK .
AND i wont be heeding a word one outta they lips . I PRAY TO GOD NONE DO .

@amigo de christo

 

[RedLetterJoe]

Thank You Joe for the open and honest confession of faith in CHRIST as well as our weaknesses.

i can attest to similar in my own life and the daily need of the Holy Spirit, Grace and His Mercy that i may have love for others

Blessed are the merciful...

As the arteries grow harder, the heart grows softer.

Much love Brother.

 

[Gray_Joy]

#1 - The DotL is not the Great Tribulation - it is the Day of the Wrath of the LAMB and of God

#2 - Amos 5:18 is addressed to those Jews who thought they are righteous before God and that the Judgment that is Coming is only upon their enemies.

#3 - These same Jews are alive today as they fully believe that Jesus Christ and His followers, the Gentiles, are the enemies of Moses/Law and of God.

#4 - In a similar way, the doctrine of pre-trib, as many christians are basing their hope on "God is love and would never hurt His Bride"
Therefore, when the MoB comes here to USA, there will be a great time of stress upon pre-tribbers who were expecting escape from tribulation, persecution and death for the Name of Christ.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. The Day of the Lord vs. Great Tribulation.

So the wrath of God ,the Day of the Lord,isn't anything we will endure. Because Jesus took God's wrath upon himself on the cross on our behalf.

1 Thessalonians 5:9: "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

That and the Great Tribulation are sequential events.

 

[PinSeeker]

You are playing both ends against the middle.

Well no... <chuckles>

On one hand you are saying that the born again wont experience "Vengeance".... 2 Thess 1:8....

Right...

...yet, you then say the born again will be here...

Yes... and we'll remain here when the fullness of God's eternal kingdom is ushered in...

...if you are here you are going to taste God's Wrath ...

No. Not at all. Quite the opposite. <smile>

So, You go ahead and stay here, as i wont be here...

So you... want to go and experience God's wrath and vengeance for yourself? Hmmmm... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Behold.

 

[David in NJ]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. The Day of the Lord vs. Great Tribulation.

So the wrath of God ,the Day of the Lord,isn't anything we will endure. Because Jesus took God's wrath upon himself on the cross on our behalf.

1 Thessalonians 5:9: "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

That and the Great Tribulation are sequential events.

Always keep this in your heart & mind = God's word is a Children's Book = written for His Children

Notice how chapter 1 lays the foundation of Deliverance from His Wrath
1 Thess 1:10 - to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Chapters 2 and 3 declare to us that we may suffer for Christ just as the apostles did, even unto death.
Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

Chapter 4 declares the EXACT Order of our Deliverance = the 2nd Coming of CHRIST
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5 Concludes where chapter 1 Began = "the Body of Christ is NOT appointed to God's Wrath"
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

BETWEEN Chapters 1 and 5 we are suffering Tribulation, even to imprisonment and death for the Name of Christ with the Promise of the 2nd Coming of Christ, The Resurrection followed by the Rapture

Simple Truth for God's Children who love the Truth

SHALOM

 

[PinSeeker]

So... per your view the wicked do not have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ after His future return?

We all do. We will all be judged according to what we have done. Again, many will be on Christ's right, and many on His left...

2 Cor 5:8-10
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him.
10 For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
KJV

Regarding Satan on that "day of the Lord", the day of Paul's "sudden destruction", this is what God's Word says about it...

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV

Do you see above any mention of the "dragon" (Satan) being cast into that "lake of fire" on that day of Christ's return? No, you do not... because in the next Revelation 20 Chapter we are told why the "dragon" (Satan) is not destroyed yet...

We've talked about this before. I get it; you think all the events of Revelation 19 happen before all the events of Revelation 20, and that's... not the case. The events of Revelation 19:11-21 are parallel to the events of Revelation 20:7-10; they are the same events described in a different way.

I really don't why I waste time answering you...

<chuckles> I mean I don't even know you, and I do... <smile>

...since you so blatantly omit the above Rev.20 Scripture...

Absolutely not. See above. I just place it where it should be, or actually where it is, in the scheme of things. And you could, too, it's not hard... <smile>

because of your man-made Amill doctrines.

Opinions are like noses; most of us have one... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.