Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[David in NJ]

Opinions are like noses; most of us have one...
Grace and peace to you.

Yep, and some are BIGGER then others!!!

Thank you for the 'LOL' of the day.

SHALOM

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, and some are BIGGER then others!!!

Thank you for the 'LOL' of the day.

SHALOM

The wicked pass by and every odor of the mixture of good and evil is pleasant unto their nostrils .
But to the sheep ONLY TRUTH is a pleasant and sweet odor unto their nostrils . FOR JESUS has the sheep .

 

[Marvelloustime]

The wicked pass by and every odor of the mixture of good and evil is pleasant unto their nostrils .
But to the sheep ONLY TRUTH is a pleasant and sweet odor unto their nostrils . FOR JESUS has the sheep .

@amigo de christo

 

[rebuilder 454]

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

Show me the last day.
Why is your doctrine so wrong?
Why do you go against the bible?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Always keep this in your heart & mind = God's word is a Children's Book = written for His Children

Notice how chapter 1 lays the foundation of Deliverance from His Wrath
1 Thess 1:10 - to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Chapters 2 and 3 declare to us that we may suffer for Christ just as the apostles did, even unto death.
Therefore, when we could no longer endure it, we thought it good to be left in Athens alone, and sent Timothy, our brother and minister of God, and our fellow laborer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you and encourage you concerning your faith, that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know. For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

Chapter 4 declares the EXACT Order of our Deliverance = the 2nd Coming of CHRIST
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Chapter 5 Concludes where chapter 1 Began = "the Body of Christ is NOT appointed to God's Wrath"
For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

BETWEEN Chapters 1 and 5 we are suffering Tribulation, even to imprisonment and death for the Name of Christ with the Promise of the 2nd Coming of Christ, The Resurrection followed by the Rapture

Simple Truth for God's Children who love the Truth

SHALOM

Who are the ones taken before the flood, (before the trib), in Matt 24?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Who are the 144,000 ?
Nobody in your camp knows.

What gathering is Rev 14:14?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does the bride become the wife IN HEAVEN, in Rev 19?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does Jesus say his coming will be before the flood in mat 24?
Nobody In your camp knows.

Why is power given to the AC to destroy the saints?
Nobody in your camp knows.

 

[amigo de christo]

Show me the last day.
Why is your doctrine so wrong?
Why do you go against the bible?

What if what a person beleives to be is biblically doctrinal , is really the indotrination o men .
THERE be a cure to bad doctrines .
There is a solution by which one can truly prove whether his doctrine be of men or of GOD .
And its a real easy one too my friend .
I suggest we all do it for ourselves .
SO i am giving out the request for all to put down any other books and etc
and pick up again the bible . I would like to see if one read the bible
again for themselves . just spend about two hours a day reading it for a month , YOU SEE what begins to happen .
Now i gave that to all folks to do . SEE what would happen .
For many be the doctrines of men , and while a few doctrines might agree with the bible , MANY do not agree at all
with the bible . And so long as men sit under men , their doctrines
THEY will learn these doctrines and not be able to see whether or not what they are being taught IS actually
the whole rightly divided t ruth .
SO an easy way to start is to BEGIN again with just the BIBLE .
I read it daily , the letters as a whole , e ven with others .
Just enjoy what you read , be learning , be r efreshed . Watch what begins to happen .

 

[amigo de christo]

Who are the ones taken before the flood, (before the trib), in Matt 24?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Who are the 144,000 ?
Nobody in your camp knows.

What gathering is Rev 14:14?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does the bride become the wife IN HEAVEN, in Rev 19?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does Jesus say his coming will be before the flood in mat 24?
Nobody In your camp knows.

Why is power given to the AC to destroy the saints?
Nobody in your camp knows.

The enemy has been killing saints throughout all of history .
What most do not realize is
That mystery of inquity , that spirit which be of ANTI CHRIST , oh its been ev en since the days of john .
AND NOW we are seeing it hit its peak .
And speaking of AC . What is an anti christ . HE WHO DENIES JESUS IS THE CHRIST . i am sure you agree with that .
BUT DO YOU AGREE WITH WHAT I SAY NExt .
What if i told you there are many anti christs even now as we speak .
What if i told you they have joined hands to create the worlds largest religoin known as inclusivism
and that by its means , by its interfaith , by its ecumenical cry for unity , by its interreligious dialogue
IT has sold the lie of anti christ unto them all . AND done so quite cleverly i might add .
Cause it message of intefaith dialgoue did not try and OMIT CHRIST , though in essence it sure did ,
it simply included him , as it did the muslim religoin , as it did the other religons .
saying , AND I DO QUOATE , The GOD of the christain is no BETTER than the god of the muslim or any other religion .
ITS THE SAME GOD . WE are simply coming to him differently and in different ways .
NOW GUESS WHO JUST GOT DENEID IN THAT LIE . WHY TO BELIEVE ON JESUS DID .
thus making the gospel of JESUS of no need at all . AND THEY THINK this plan
is gonna lead them to peace , to world peace .
THEY believe this plan is of GOD . really ............YA REALLY THINK GOD is in the business of DENYING THE FACT
one has to repent and BELIEVE ON THE VERY CHRIST HE SENT AND HE TESTIED On my friend .
So speaking of anti christ
I advise all to get out of anything ecumeincal interfaith RIGHT NOW , cause THAT IS WHO YA ALL BEING LED TOO
and by PEACE will surely DESTROY MANY . so do you know of anyone
who supports people who brought us the POPE led abraham peace accords , this interfaith plan .
IF SO , DO NOT SUPPORT THEM . and now a word .
THAT WOULD BE THE PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL LEFT , YES EVEN THE NAR REALM and YES EVEN DONALD J T RUMP
and his VANCE and KUSHNER . WE are ALL being lied too my friend . every last one of us THEY are lying too my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Who are the ones taken before the flood, (before the trib), in Matt 24?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Who are the 144,000 ?
Nobody in your camp knows.

What gathering is Rev 14:14?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does the bride become the wife IN HEAVEN, in Rev 19?
Nobody in your camp knows.

Why does Jesus say his coming will be before the flood in mat 24?
Nobody In your camp knows.

Why is power given to the AC to destroy the saints?
Nobody in your camp knows.

but but amigo some might say , THIS IS FOR WORLD PEACE . IT IS THE PLAN OF GOD
so that we can all attain peace n sa fety , the peace n safety of ISRAEL and of the world .
TO WHICH I NOW SAY
JESUS never came to bring peace on earth .
AND ANY PEACE OF GOD would darn sure NEVER HAVE DENIED THE FACT ONE MUST BELIEVE
on THE VERY SON WHOM HE DID SEND and WHOM HE TESTIEID ON and WHO HIS SPIRIT would surely
have TESTIFIED ON . You all think just cause TRUMP n vance support it
that somehow it must be the plan of GOD . THAT IS ExAcTLY what THEY WANT YOU to BELEIVE .
JUST like the left wants their own side to beleive in this ecumeincal interfaith stuff .
BOTH sides do it . THE ONLY difference between them , as of YET , is one is pro palestine the other pro israel
YET BOTH SIDES PUMP THE SAME LIE that GOD IS FINE WITH ALL RELIGONS , and etc .
EVEN POPE francis who i know IS liberal left said it .
TEHY ALL in on this my friend . THEY just sell this lie to their side . its claoked with enough blue in it
for the BLUE to recieve it , and it comes to the red with enough red in it to have THE RED side support it .
IN OTHER WORDS , IT BE THE SAME DEVIL simply seducing them all
AND beleive you me , satan can indeed appear as being friend to any group as though he be of that group . OH BuT HE cAN
and oh but he do . we are all being sold an inclusive anti christ religion .

 

[David in NJ]

Show me the last day.
Why is your doctrine so wrong?
Why do you go against the bible?

Here is Post #162 again

Point out what part of this post goes against the Bible

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is Post #162 again

Point out what part of this post goes against the Bible

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

What would you do if i told you that it dont go against the bible but it do go against a certain INDOCTRINATION of men
And that those who sat under and beleived that indoctrination bELIEVE IT IS and DO GO with the BIBLE .
And yet IT SURELY DOES NOT . many sat under men david .
And while i understand there is such a thing as true leaders , I ALSO KNOW many are not TRUE at all , at least not TRUE
to the BIBLE and thus yeah not True .
You see too many ran to man for the answer , when it was GOD they should have sought and been in HIS BOOK to learn
AND THEN they had seen for their very selves if what a man taught was true or was it simply twisted with truths and with errors of men .
I might suggest also acroymns and this so called christain zionism BE abandoned as well .
FOR though in name its says Christain and combines that with zionism .
IT IS NEITHER CHRIST nor the TRUE ZION OF GOD they point too . they point to the earthern as though it STILL be the ZION
and cannot see nor grasp , THE ZION , THE ISRAEL , THE JERSUALEM and THE TEMPLE
IS no longer earthen but is heavenly . And while to many that might sound like blasphemy .
What i say to one i say to all , IT BE NOT blasphemy , BUT THE HEAVENLY ITSELF of GOD and OF THE LAMB
that this sheep points all to my friend . T HERE IS NO TRUE ANYTHING outside and apart from THE ONE TRUE GOD
and HIS CHRIST . and again that is ANOTHER SOLID FACT this generaiton better fast learn
before forever it wails ON HIS DAY .

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is Post #162 again

Point out what part of this post goes against the Bible

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

What i said might shock some to the core but allow it to be said again .
THERE IS NOTHING TRUE that is outside and apart FROM GOD and HIS CHRIST .
why not even a jew who belives not on THIS GOD and THUS HIS CHRIST is really a jew . Not one inwardly HE AINT .
THE HEAVENLY , i do repeat , THE HEAVENLY HAS INDEED REPLACED THE EARTHEN .
THERE A WHOLE NEW COV ENANT THAT HAS LONG BEEN IN TOWN .
AND EVEN UNDER THE LAW , UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT , POINTED TO THIS COMING NEW COVENANT
a coventant OF GOD given BY GOD , Accomplished BY GOD HIS CHRIST
and given unto ALL WHO DO BELIEVE THIS GOD , WHO I KNOW TESTIFIED ON HIS SON .
Even jersualem on earth BE ON BONDAGE and that not all of its israel IS OF THIS ISRAEL I SPEAK OF .
BUT THAT GOD HIMSELF , ev en to abraham was it shown , even the very law and the prophets
WOULD speak of such a thing . THE earthern was but for a time specified by GOD
TILL THE VERY HEAVENLY , AND I DO MEAN EVEN CREATOR OF ALL
would come And FULLFILL so then HE HIMSELF could establish THE SECOND , THE ONE that is not patterend
after the true, BUT IS THE TRUE ITSELF . THE HEAVENLY . and folks think i am anti semtic or a blasphemer
OF GOD for saying such a thing . YET GOD HISMELF TESTIFIED ON THIS VERY THING .
OH YES . HE DID TESTIFY OF IT . And yet they cannot hear the law or the prophets
THEY cannot ev en hear the plain writings of paul , nor ev en the words of JESUS .
WHICH HAD DARN SURE CONFIRMED THIS TO BE ABSOLUTELY TRUE .

 

[Davy]

We all do. We will all be judged according to what we have done. Again, many will be on Christ's right, and many on His left...

Yeah, and that will only happen once Jesus returns and take His earthly throne He is to inherit from His flesh grandfather David (Matthew 25:31-33). But the FINAL JUDGMENT (Revelation 20:10-15), the GWTJ, it does not happen until later, not until after Christ's "thousand years" reign is over.

We've talked about this before. I get it; you think all the events of Revelation 19 happen before all the events of Revelation 20, and that's... not the case. The events of Revelation 19:11-21 are parallel to the events of Revelation 20:7-10; they are the same events described in a different way.

Nah... we've never talking about this before, you're making things up. And no way, have I ever thought all the events of Rev.19 happen prior to the events of Rev.20, that idea is just something going on your mind.

However, the Revelation 19:1-9 events do happen AFTER Christ's 2nd coming, and the rest of the Rev.19:11-21 events happen prior and during... Jesus' 2nd coming. Have to be able to 'rightly divide' God's Word according to... God's written Word, not according to men's traditions.

Rest of what you wrote isn't worth responding to.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yeah, and that will only happen once Jesus returns…

Right, agreed…

and take His earthly throne…

There is no earthly ~ worldly ~ throne, Davy; as Jesus told Pilate, His kingdom is not of this world. And that throne is a place of power over Israel, which:
David, as firstborn over Israel (Psalm 89), held in the lesser sense in His day
Jesus, the greater David, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1) and seated at the right hand of God the Father holds and reigns in right now. And one great day He will usher His kingdom in in its fullness
So I ask you again… rhetorically really: who is… is, so right now ~ your King? Who is your King?

He is to inherit…

He did. He reigns. He is ~ right now ~ the King of Glory. Over God’s Israel. Now in Spirit, of course, which is how we are seated with Him (Ephesians 2), but one day, when our faith is sight, in Person. And we will be co-heirs with Him. And that will be His eternal reign, because, Davy, that will be eternity, the age to come, which of course will have no end.

But the FINAL JUDGMENT (Revelation 20:10-15), the GWTJ, it does not happen until later, not until after Christ's "thousand years" reign is over.

Right, I agree with this, as I have said many times. When this age is over… “these last days,” as the writer of Hebrews (1:1-2) says… the final Judgment will occur, and then He will rid all creation of all sin and death, and usher in the kingdom in its fullness.

Nah... we've never talking about this before…

We have, you’ve just chosen not to listen, which… is okay. <smile> But you know, because you think you know it all, you have it alllllllllll figured out. Which, you know, yeah, fair enough. <smile>

And no way, have I ever thought all the events of Rev.19 happen prior to the events of Rev.20, that idea is just something going on your mind.

Hmmm, interesting. Okay, so I’m mistaken on that, maybe… although… <smile> So let’s just take Revelation 19 and 20. Give me your sequential analysis of those chapters, Davy. Maybe I’m at least somewhat wrong in my understanding of your position. I mean you do a bit of that here… let’s see…

However, the Revelation 19:1-9 events do happen AFTER Christ's 2nd coming…

Agreed…

…the rest of the Rev.19:11-21 events happen prior and during... Jesus' 2nd coming.

Agreed…

Oh man, don’t stop there! <smile> What about Revelation 20? Come on, man! <chuckles>

Have to be able to 'rightly divide' God's Word according to... God's written Word, not according to men's traditions.

Right right right. So let’s hear it. Revelation 19 and 20. Let’s hear where you put them in relation to each other. And look... we can disagree ~ if we do ~ without arguing, and without accusing each other of lying or "desecrating the Word of God" or some such. Come on.

Rest of what you wrote isn't worth responding to.

<chuckles>

Run away if you like… <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Davy]

There is no earthly ~ worldly ~ throne, Davy; as Jesus told Pilate, His kingdom is not of this world.

You can't use that as an excuse for God having ended David's throne in Jerusalem back in Nebuchadnezzar's day. Genesis 49:10 contradicts what you say. So does 2 Samuel 7 where God promised David there would always sit one of Israel upon his throne unto all generations. That throne is still on this earth right now, you are apparently just too blind to recognize it, and are too busy heeding the doctrines of men instead of staying in God's Word.

So I ask you again… rhetorically really: who is… is, so right now ~ your King? Who is your King?

Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, of course is my KING and SAVIOR. He is David's KING and SAVIOR too. And Jesus is to inherit David's throne which IS... an EARTHLY THRONE. And that EARTHLY THRONE OF DAVID will only manifest on earth to all... when Lord Jesus returns to inherit it. Until then, Jesus is still expecting, sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne in Heaven. So of course this present time is not Christ's literal physical Kingdom. His Kingdom is manifest on earth today only through The Spirit through His Church.

What are you thinking, that when Lord Jesus returns He is going to make our home up in billowy clouds somewhere away from the earth? No, He is coming back to earth to REIGN and sit upon DAVID'S THRONE.

The prophet Jeremiah was used to re-locate that throne elsewhere when it was removed from Jerusalem. Jeremiah was kinsman redeemer of Zedekiah's daughters who escaped the Babylon destruction, called "the king's daughters" in the Book of Jeremiah. Have I not said that Old Testament Bible study is important for the Christian too?

Genesis 49 is prophecy for the latter days that Jacob gave his 12 sons, this part was to Judah...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

Jesus speaking...

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."
KJV

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is Post #162 again

Point out what part of this post goes against the Bible

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

So you have no idea when the "last day" is.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is Post #162 again

Point out what part of this post goes against the Bible

You'll be here = God promised and HE always keeps His Word

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” - John 6:39-40

JESUS never lies

No verse is against the bible.
Your deal is.

 

[rebuilder 454]

or we can listen to jesus

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

The great trib immediately follows the man of sin committing the abomination which causes desolation.

Pretty much so.

 

[David in NJ]

So you have no idea when the "last day" is.

Sure i do - for i believe the words of God

 

[David in NJ]

No verse is against the bible.
Your deal is.

you came up empty with Truth but full of false accusations

 

[PinSeeker]

You can't use that as an excuse for God having ended David's throne in Jerusalem back in Nebuchadnezzar's day.

Nobody's using anything as any kind of "excuse" for anything.

Genesis 49:10 contradicts what you say. So does 2 Samuel 7 where God promised David there would always sit one of Israel upon his throne unto all generations.

Right, and the issue here is what is meant by that throne, which I was very clear about in my previous post.

That throne is still on this earth right now...

In a certain sense, yes... <chuckles> But not the one that you insist on.

you are apparently just too blind to recognize it, and are too busy heeding the doctrines of men instead of staying in God's Word.

<eyeroll> I could surely say the same thing of you, Davy. Word for word. And be far more correct, actually...

Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, of course is my KING and SAVIOR. He is David's KING and SAVIOR too.

Good. Right. Now if you only realized that he was occupying David's throne ~ position of power and preeminence... His Kingship, which you're actually affirming here... over Israel right now... But alas. Yes, He very much is "seated on David's throne" right now, but in the true sense, and not just as a type/shadow that David once did.

And Jesus is to inherit David's throne...

He has. As Jesus said, even when He started His earthly ministry, His kingdom is here. Now.

which IS... an EARTHLY THRONE.

And it will be, in its fullness ~ and what I'm saying is that it has been inaugurated... that's what happened at His birth 2000+ years ago... and on His return will it will be consummated. But again, the throne is His position as King over God's Israel, now and forever, which includes people every tongue, tribe, and nation (and ethnicity, including Jews) ~ which of which David and what we call "lesser" Israel, meaning only Jews, pointed to and thus were what we call types and shadows of the greater reality to come.

Jesus speaking...

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence."KJV

Right, so... <smile> ...it's really kind of... "puzzling" to me, why you and others who think along the same lines as you do on this want to make His kingdom out to be of this world. But that's the effect. I mean this is an absurd question, and it's meant to be, in order to make a point: Why would His kingdom grow and grow and grow, and exponentially so, since His day and then on His return all of a sudden shrink back down to what it was in David's day? Yeah, it doesn't.

Grace and peace to you.