Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ok, I’ll try this again.

How fun.

My theological interpretation, and yours, is irrelevant to the point I’m making.

It has to be relevant to some extent because you need to be able to prove that Revelation 20:1-3, at least, follows what is described in Revelation 19:11-21 chronologically. So, your theological interpretation plays a part in this in that sense, at least.

I’m talking about the chronological sequence of the narrative itself, prior to any theological interpretation.

Yes, I know that. And I showed where you point is flawed and, naturally, you just dismiss it. We can't just ignore theological interpretations to determine what the chronological sequence is, though. We can claim anything we want about the chronological sequence if no interpretations of the text are necessary.

The phrase “and I saw” (καὶ εἶδον) most commonly transitions John’s viewpoint to the next scene in his visionary experience, either from one vision to the next or from one aspect of the same vision to another.

What does this even mean? It doesn't prove that the next thing he saw in every case was something that chronologically followed what he has just seen prior to it.

By itself, it does not signal that John has abandoned the current narrative, begun a completely new vision, or reset the historical timeline.

Sure.

When Revelation intends that kind of transition, it normally provides additional literary cues, such as, “Then I saw a great sign…,” “Come, I will show you…,” or “He carried me away in the Spirit.”

Nah. Now you're just trying to make up a man-made rule. You may have noticed that I never buy into your man-made rules.

So I’ll start with some low-hanging fruit. Simply reading Revelation 20 on its own, without importing any theological conclusions, do the occurrences of καὶ εἶδον (“and I saw”) in Revelation 20:4, 20:11, and 20:12 suggest that the events following those verses do not occur chronologically after what immediately precedes them?

You are changing the topic here. What you are trying to say about the trumpets is that they must all follow the seventh seal because the beginning of the description of the trumpets starts with "And I saw". Is that not correct? If so, then that would mean you believe that Revelation 20:1, at least, refers to something that occurs after the end of Revelation 19 is fulfilled. So, do you believe that or not?

In other words, within the narrative itself, does Revelation 20:11 occur chronologically after verse 10, or does “and I saw” reset the timeline the way you argue it does in 20:1?

Why are you only talking about Revelation 20:11? You are not even addressing the point that we are debating by doing that. Unless I'm missing your point. If so, you need to be more clear. You are coming across as if you believe the phrase "And I saw" in Revelation 8:2, implies that the trumpets, at the very least the first trumpet event, must follow the seventh seal event chronologically. Is that not what you're saying? If so, then do you believe that at least Revelation 20:1 describes something that chronologically follows Revelation 19:21?

Likewise, does Revelation 20:4 occur chronologically after verse 3, or does “and I saw” reset the timeline there as well?

Answer my question about Revelation 20:1. I'm not saying that "And I saw" doesn't ever refer to something that chronologically follows what was described immediately prior. I'm saying that is not always the case. Address this argument instead of whatever you're doing.

If your answer is no - that 20:4 and 20:11 continue the narrative chronologically despite beginning with καὶ εἶδον - then why should we assume that the identical phrase in 20:1 functions differently?

The onus is on you to prove that what is described in Revelation 20:1 chronologically follows what is described in Revelation 19:11-21. Can you do that?

What in the text itself, apart from theological interpretation, indicates that 20:1 resets the timeline while the other occurrences do not?

Revelation 20:1-3 is one continuous thought, so let's just focus on that for now. What evidence do you have to suggest that Jesus started reigning and Satan was bound after what is described in Revelation 19:11-21 was fulfilled?

And this all leads back to my main point with @Davidpt - why does “and i saw” in revelation 8:2 reset the timeline line so that the seals and trumpets are “parallel”, where as it doesn’t in revelation 20:1?

It does do that in Revelation 20:1. You are not doing anything to prove otherwise.

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course it is. That is clearly what the word consummation In Daniel 9:27 equals per that context. Only someone doctrinally biased would disagree.

More like changing the very scripture and its context in claiming that the word "Consummation" in Daniel 9:27 applies to a 70AD destruction of a temple in Jerusalem, thats just another preterist fairy tale

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah, just ignore the context of the verse. The consummation is related to the consummation of the destruction of the city and the sanctuary. That happened in 70 AD.

A False "Preterist" fairy tale, as you change the very context of scripture to suit your 70AD preterist needs

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.