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aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Yes adoption laws and expenses are totally outrageous. Also, if the Christian Church took charge of finding homes for unwanted children, it would make a huge difference. I know because I watched the social service agencies that managed troubled children in my city lose half their caseloads because the Mormon Church in a neighboring state have been actively finding Mormon homes that were willing to take the children for the past ten years. The Christian church can also make a difference and take back much of the social service work that we are called to do anyway from the secular agencies.

I think the Christian Church has some responsibility for the moral decay of our society - we cannot expect to improve our service to our neighbor if we fail to see our role. I am not saying that we are entirely responsible, but we have dropped the ball when it comes to the secularization of social services. Think about how powerful church movements were in the 19th century - The Shakers included thousands and thousands of members who bought and raised thousands of slave children from the South - they made a huge impact on the eventual outlawing of slavery - and they didn't do it through legislation.

Or we can sit online and cry about how those mean liberals are picking on us - see, I didn't forget your place in our community, Strat.
 

Strat

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Mar 25, 2012
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Yes adoption laws and expenses are totally outrageous. Also, if the Christian Church took charge of finding homes for unwanted children, it would make a huge difference. I know because I watched the social service agencies that managed troubled children in my city lose half their caseloads because the Mormon Church in a neighboring state have been actively finding Mormon homes that were willing to take the children for the past ten years. The Christian church can also make a difference and take back much of the social service work that we are called to do anyway from the secular agencies.

I think the Christian Church has some responsibility for the moral decay of our society - we cannot expect to improve our service to our neighbor if we fail to see our role. I am not saying that we are entirely responsible, but we have dropped the ball when it comes to the secularization of social services. Think about how powerful church movements were in the 19th century - The Shakers included thousands and thousands of members who bought and raised thousands of slave children from the South - they made a huge impact on the eventual outlawing of slavery - and they didn't do it through legislation.

Or we can sit online and cry about how those mean liberals are picking on us - see, I didn't forget your place in our community, Strat.

So many lies,where to start

The moral decline of this society is the result of 100 years of liberal progressives and their lust for power,first do away with all traditional values then get people as dependent on government as you can to buy votes and secure power and like wise the modern church has abandoned traditional values to excuse their sin...in short its just people being people,power,materialism,hedonism....anything but God....this apostate would have us beleive that it is our job as christians to follow people around and make their sinful lives as easy as possible and their path to hell as wide as possible,this apostate would have us beleive that we have no right to push our morality on others but every obligation to pay the consequences,his simple mind will not allow him to understand that consequences or reaping what one sows is Gods way of bringing people to their senses and showing them that his way is the best way.

Thanks to benevolent father government and its heretic quislings you can make as many babies as you want,not work to care for them and of course kill them if you want to and in the apostates mind its all the fault of christians for not trailing along behind them begging to serve them and their sin....for your consideration i offer the following fools equation.

There was a time when sins like adultery,fornication and indecency brought shame and embarrassment,of course it still went on but the shame and stigma kept it in check...now enter the wicked fools who said away with this shame and stigma,its only human to degrade one's self,its only natural to have sex any time with anybody you want to...oops there's a baby,now more stigma and shame...lets do away with the baby as well....now we have the"great society" every sinners dream....anything goes and if any unpleasant consequences do slip through there is an endless supply of neurotic confused and simple minded pew warmers that will take the blame....the bible says that sin must come,but woe unto him through which it comes.

The"secularization" of social services occured because progressive liberals knew that if they offered people an alternative to traditional values and offered to pay for it they would follow in droves and return the favor with votes...the lies offerd by the apostate have nothing to do with it and his feigned concern for children when he would not cast a vote to save a single one of them is disgusting.


I think adoption is a beautiful thing...Jesus was adopted (by Joseph!), and I think that many Christian families should consider it. The problem is that it's just so difficult to adopt! I know that many laws are there to stop abusive people adopting kids...but let's face it, sadly many of those laws do absolutely squat to stop abuse. If the cost of adopting wasn't so hefty, and the laws and hoops were lessened, we may find that many more kids would land in good homes. It saddens me sometimes to think of all the kids, especially in poverty struck and war torn countries, who would be benefited and amazed by the lifestyle that even a 'poor' family could give them!

As far as abortion goes...well, I don't think we can place blame on the church...or anyone institution. Ultimately, the choice resides with the woman going in to force the baby from her body. There are always options. If one 'Church' is demanding and cruel, there is always the opportunity to go somewhere else...I know plenty of Churches who would welcome a struggling single mother. I'm not saying it's easy...but how many woman out there have done the young, single mother thing? It is possible. I feel it's just too easy for them to make the decision to 'get rid' of an inconvenience. If they were asked if they would shoot a random kid on the street, they would be horrified. If they were given a knife, and their baby placed in front of them...I wonder how much 'abortion' would drop.

Thank you for placing the responsability where it belongs,as you can see some people don't have that level of perception foolishly thinking that making sin easy will cause people to turn from it......it's a shame they can't find any support for it in their dusty old seldom read bible.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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Wow. Woooow

So much hatred written in such a small post. You have no concept of reality or history Strat. I forgive you for calling me a fool, since God will hold you accountable for doing so.

It is not the churches' job to dole out guilt and shame to all the sinners - how crazy are you? God doesn't want us to sin because it is harmful for our well being - natural consequences for sinful actions is enough to turn a sinner around. Getting in the way of God's discipline by manufacturing peer pressure, shame, and guilt from one church-going sinner to another non-church-going sinner is called casting the first stone, which was condemned by Jesus.

As soon as the Christian church starts loving sinners and offering nonjudgmental help, we will have no need for social service. The crazy thing is that you are calling me a big government liberal and I am advocating for the church to take on social service rather than the government. Your insults aren't even logical. I guess hate can really twist a person's brain......
 

Strat

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
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Wow. Woooow

So much hatred written in such a small post. You have no concept of reality or history Strat. I forgive you for calling me a fool, since God will hold you accountable for doing so.

It is not the churches' job to dole out guilt and shame to all the sinners - how crazy are you? God doesn't want us to sin because it is harmful for our well being - natural consequences for sinful actions is enough to turn a sinner around. Getting in the way of God's discipline by manufacturing peer pressure, shame, and guilt from one church-going sinner to another non-church-going sinner is called casting the first stone, which was condemned by Jesus.

As soon as the Christian church starts loving sinners and offering nonjudgmental help, we will have no need for social service. The crazy thing is that you are calling me a big government liberal and I am advocating for the church to take on social service rather than the government. Your insults aren't even logical. I guess hate can really twist a person's brain......

What you are calling for is the church to support,finance and enable sin and you have no biblical support for it at all...Jesus taught the forgiveness of sin and the repentence of sin.I challenge to you point out one instance in the bible where the support of practising sin is called for,either finacially,socially or spiritually...you cannot do it because you would have to lie to do so....then again maybe you can.The prodigal son was reduced to eating pig slop and coming home half starved before he was redeemed after he"came to himself"...in your version he would have gone to a government program who would have taxed his father more so he could continue to survive ina pig pen and never come home.

You are a big government liberal with a christian marketing scheme..like a TV preacher without the air time...you support the murder of children and excuse it with some grass roots nonsense,you defend those who murder children by offering every excuse under the sun for them
...poor little unwed mothers and poor little scared little helpless blah blah blah...you are one of those "yes,it's a sin but" types who will give a cursory admission to sin but an excuse always follows and if anyway possible,the indictment of a second or third party.

This nation is drowning in innocent blood and every single unrepentent person that supports it in any way will receive their reward...that brings me to your obligatory whinning about "hate" i don't hate you because you don't matter....the lies and apostasy you spread to the dgree that they decive others and cause them to stumble does matter and you will receive your just and due reward...no amount of hatred i could muster towards you will compare with that....thats' enough for me....woe to him through who sin comes...its in your Bible.

The difference between me and you is you plead the cause of the unrepentent sinner and what you think they are entitled to from God and man....i plead the cause of the repentent sinner of which i am one,i have known my portion of the depths of the consequences of sin and i "came to myself" as was prescribed and repent daily before God for the sins i commit...the sins i commit at times in the natural way in which a bird flies or a Fish swims.I thank God for the pain and misery i suffered while commiting my sins and the people who told me the truth and not soft sappy lies to make me feel good about my miserable condition....but i guess i waste my breath.
 

Rach1370

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Apr 17, 2010
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Can I ask at what point you two will realise you cannot agree? Is there really any benefit to the escalating posts? Wouldn't it just be better if you both took some time and avoided the other? I know this is difficult as you both take exception to what the other is saying, but truly...everyone knows what you both think, believe and feel. So don't you really feel that you both need to take a step back and focus on other people and other topics??
 

Hollyrock

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Nov 17, 2011
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Can I ask at what point you two will realise you cannot agree? Is there really any benefit to the escalating posts? Wouldn't it just be better if you both took some time and avoided the other? I know this is difficult as you both take exception to what the other is saying, but truly...everyone knows what you both think, believe and feel. So don't you really feel that you both need to take a step back and focus on other people and other topics??
THANK YOU... FOR SAYING WHAT WE ALL WANTED TO SAY BUT DID'NT
 

Strat

Active Member
Mar 25, 2012
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What i have come to realize through my experiences here and other places is that modern christianity has nothing to offer me,it's culture is weak and flaccid and stands for nothing....love is an excuse and a sheild to hide behind when you don't want to say what people don't want to hear and you don't realy want to hear yourself say....so we'll just cover it all up with love.I would have never been saved through modern christianity because no one would have ever told me what i needed to hear about God,about sin,about myself and about others.....they would have loved me straight into Hell....feeling great about myself all the way....this is modern christianity and i want nothing to do with it.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Can I ask at what point you two will realise you cannot agree? Is there really any benefit to the escalating posts? Wouldn't it just be better if you both took some time and avoided the other? I know this is difficult as you both take exception to what the other is saying, but truly...everyone knows what you both think, believe and feel. So don't you really feel that you both need to take a step back and focus on other people and other topics??

Rach, he has been trolling my posts since he got here. I post something - he attacks me, rather than my ideas and I point it out and he continues to attack - the pattern is consistent.

So, I am open to suggestions - how would you handle someone who constantly misrepresents what you have written? How about when others respond to you as if you actually wrote what the Troll has misinterpreted and reframed into his own narrative about you?

Providing social service is not facilitating sin, Strat.

".love is an excuse and a sheild to hide behind when you don't want to say what people don't want to hear and you don't realy want to hear yourself say....so we'll just cover it all up with love"

Proverbs 10:12

Proverbs 17:9

1 Peter 4:8
 

Rach1370

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'Modern Christianity' or 'ancient Christianity' can only really be labels for the same sins that have been around since the garden of Eden. Be it lawfulness or licentiousness, it's all been around before and will continue to infect the Church. We mustn't be surprised at this, after all, to be a Christian is put up one's hand and say 'Im a sinner, God I need your grace'. But I am constantly surprised at Christians slashing out at other Christians, just because they sin differently. We all sin, we all need grace, and fighting amongst ourselves is not only harmful to us, it's just a bad witness and we reflect poorly on Jesus' beautiful name.
It's all about Jesus. Do you love Jesus? Do you live for Jesus? Do you strive to grow in knowledge and wisdom of his grace? If the answer is yes, then despite our sins and our failings, God will take what He has given us, and complete it in time.

So, I am open to suggestions - how would you handle someone who constantly misrepresents what you have written? How about when others respond to you as if you actually wrote what the Troll has misinterpreted and reframed into his own narrative about you?

I think the only thing you can do is ignore him. And I would encourage the same of him. There is no edification for either of you for this to continue; and certainly none for everyone else reading along. As I said before...we know what's going on....we've read it. And we may, each of us, agree or disagree with what we've seen put down between you. But nothing can be gained by 'joining' sides...that leads to full scale war, and I know you don't want that! I have tried to point out truths on both sides, hoping to make a bridge between you two, but clearly it won't happen. So my most honest plea, to both of you...is to just stop. It doesn't have to go on until someone is declared victorious and the other dead! Yes there is 'truth' out there...God meant something specific when He gave us doctrines etc, but how else do we learn these truths but through living and growing in conjunction with His word and His Spirit teaching us? I know that despite my certainty on things, God will grow me yet in my understandings, and I am sure the same will happen for both of you. I pray that you can now just take a step back and view what you feel as hurts done by the other, as an opportunity for God to grow them in.
I believe the wise path from here on, is to just not engage in any topic with each other...you have a quite clear view of where that path leads...frustration and argument!
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
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I think the only thing you can do is ignore him. And I would encourage the same of him. There is no edification for either of you for this to continue; and certainly none for everyone else reading along. As I said before...we know what's going on....we've read it. And we may, each of us, agree or disagree with what we've seen put down between you. But nothing can be gained by 'joining' sides...that leads to full scale war, and I know you don't want that! I have tried to point out truths on both sides, hoping to make a bridge between you two, but clearly it won't happen. So my most honest plea, to both of you...is to just stop. It doesn't have to go on until someone is declared victorious and the other dead! Yes there is 'truth' out there...God meant something specific when He gave us doctrines etc, but how else do we learn these truths but through living and growing in conjunction with His word and His Spirit teaching us? I know that despite my certainty on things, God will grow me yet in my understandings, and I am sure the same will happen for both of you. I pray that you can now just take a step back and view what you feel as hurts done by the other, as an opportunity for God to grow them in.
I believe the wise path from here on, is to just not engage in any topic with each other...you have a quite clear view of where that path leads...frustration and argument!

Ok.