Bragging

[aspen]

Why is it forbidden to talk about my job? The ministry I would for is my place of employment - they pay me - how is this alms? You have even claimed I have bragged about living in a poor neighborhood.

 

[Strat]

Why is it forbidden to talk about my job? The ministry I would for is my place of employment - they pay me - how is this alms? You have even claimed I have bragged about living in a poor neighborhood.

You should have said you were a paid employee to begin with...since you seem to want to tell everything else about yourself why leave that out ? you started the thread and think you are quite crafty at shifting the emphasis and marginalizing any opposition...well you are not....the bible says we are to keep such things to ourselves and no exceptions follow it.

 

[aspen]

You should have said you were a paid employee to begin with...since you seem to want to tell everything else about yourself why leave that out ? you started the thread and think you are quite crafty at shifting the emphasis and marginalizing any opposition...well you are not....the bible says we are to keep such things to ourselves and no exceptions follow it.

I accept your apology.

 

[Hollyrock]

I don't think I understand what this thread is saying after all...so I take back my earlier post :)

 

[Strat]

I don't think I understand what this thread is saying after all...so I take back my earlier post :)

Its about bragging about one's accomplishments in regard to caring for the poor....the bible speaks against it....please reveiw the thread for a wide variety of excuses for it.....to include temperment,circumstances ect etc....to follow what the bible says you first have to know your name and then.....not mention it.

 

[Rach1370]

All i am doing is standing for what the bible has to say about it...time and time again scripture is quoted to me when somebody thinks i have not sufficiently submitted myself to them and their emotions

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here...sorry. Are you saying that you are standing for what the bible says about humility and 'not bragging'? That's fine, I most certainly am not asking you to do differently. But my question would be...how are you to know indefinitely that it IS bragging? As I said earlier, Paul himself talks about himself all the time! But none of it is done is self exhalation...it's all for the glory of God. It is possible to talk about one's self in a humble and worshipful way...and unless we know specific details of both person and event...I don't know that it is our place to judge if such things are bragging or glorifying.

 

[Strat]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here...sorry. Are you saying that you are standing for what the bible says about humility and 'not bragging'? That's fine, I most certainly am not asking you to do differently. But my question would be...how are you to know indefinitely that it IS bragging? As I said earlier, Paul himself talks about himself all the time! But none of it is done is self exhalation...it's all for the glory of God. It is possible to talk about one's self in a humble and worshipful way...and unless we know specific details of both person and event...I don't know that it is our place to judge if such things are bragging or glorifying.

I am not quite sure why you are always coming to the defense of this individual...his words are here for all to see......in regard to doctrine...it doesn't matter and he's not "afraid" to be wrong...in regard to abortion...yeah it's yucky but its ok with him....in regard to homosexuality...its no big problem,....in regard to the law of God so what who cares about it..... ect ect his words are here for all to see and i'm sure as a moderator you have access to all of them....if this is a liberal christian forum catering to liberal christian veiws and you agree with him then just say so....as many times as i have been lectured about kindness and so forth simply because i said what the bible says surely i can get some clarity on this.

This individual sent me a PM once entitled "Hi Coward"....interesting since he is always whinning and accusing me of calling him names, he informed me that my time here was indeed short and that i had "damned" myself...he also informed me that he thought i was "dangerous" to those around me....how's that for christian love....again if this is a liberal forum for liberals and liberals are the only ones allowed to express themselves just let me know and the door will not hit me where the good lord split me because i have learned that when a mod agrees with someone there realy is no point in opposing them.

 

[aspen]

The problem is Strat, that no one is interpreting my posts like you are. Face it, you have hated every word I have written ever since you knew that I was politically liberal. All of my posts are filtered your anger and hatred for anyone who is politically liberal and who believes that Christianity is more than doctrine.

 

[Foreigner]

Recently, I have run into several people, online and in real life, who equate working with people in need as simply another way to brag about their piety.

As if Christ never called us to love people through service - and what we really should be spending our time doing is studying the scriptures and limiting our service to others to saving them from Hell.

This idea strikes me as strange and, conversely, as arrogant.

-- That whole statement indicates you personally are standing in judgment of several different people and their motives.

Besides going against what God says we should do, I am fairly certain that you - like myself - are not qualified to do so.

The Holy Spirit sees what is in their hearts. He will judge them.

If it seems like I am doing what I am criticizing you for, I believe that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Hollyrock]

 

[Foreigner]

LOL touche'

 

[aspen]

-- That whole statement indicates you personally are standing in judgment of several different people and their motives.
It implies that you can somehow see what is truly in their hearts and that they are actually doing nothing for Jesus in any part of their lives whatsoever.

You are going to have to help me see your point. I am missing it. What I think I am doing is questioning why Strat, BlueMorningStar and the guy who doesn't think Jewish people are really Jews, are under the impression that I am bragging about working with homeless kids - when I was simply talking about my current job that I am excited about. All three of them have talked about love as being weak or incomplete and placed a high value on scripture. I have made no judgment about their participation or lack of participation in volunteer work. However, I have made a judgment about the danger of limiting Christianity to head knowledge about the Bible - I think it can lead people to be prideful. Only love teaches us to practice vulnerability, which I see as humility.

Call me crazy, but besides going against what God says we should do, I am fairly certain you aren't qualified....

You are right, we are not called to judge.

The Holy Spirit sees what is in their hearts. He will judge them.

I agree.

 

[Rach1370]

I am not quite sure why you are always coming to the defense of this individual...his words are here for all to see......in regard to doctrine...it doesn't matter and he's not "afraid" to be wrong...in regard to abortion...yeah it's yucky but its ok with him....in regard to homosexuality...its no big problem,....in regard to the law of God so what who cares about it..... ect ect his words are here for all to see and i'm sure as a moderator you have access to all of them....if this is a liberal christian forum catering to liberal christian veiws and you agree with him then just say so....as many times as i have been lectured about kindness and so forth simply because i said what the bible says surely i can get some clarity on this.

I'm coming to his defence because you seem to be picking on him! Now, there's been plenty of occasions where Aspen and I disagree, but yeah, I consider him my friend because we are always able walk away from said disagreements without bitterness or anger.

I see what problem you're struggling with. You can't quite understand how I can disagree with doctrine...doctrine that may very well be heretical, and yet smile and shrug. Is that correct? Let me try and break it down for you. Let's pick a doctrine that is generally bandied about this board...the homosexual issue that you've mentioned above. I believe, completely, that a 'practising' homosexual, who claims to love God, hasn't got a clue (or is in complete denial) of who God is or what He commands. I can think this, I can say this, I can hold to this unswervingly. But the moment I try and yell the loudest, to be heard, or push the hardest to get something done...I become distressingly like the Muslim. Just because I don't yell, doesn't mean I haven't made my point very clearly. It doesn't mean I haven't spoken the truth. What it does mean is that I may well be 'heard' better than the yelling people, and I've certainly left the option of further dialogue open...which God may in fact use for others benefit and His glory.

I must point out, once again, that standing firm in biblical truth does not mean (in fact I think there is sufficient biblical proof to suggest exactly the opposite) that we must be harsh, loud or aggressive. While there are arguments aplenty on this board, there is also a wonderful amount of examples of how we can disagree without these things. It's something I try to remind myself daily!!

This individual sent me a PM once entitled "Hi Coward"....interesting since he is always whinning and accusing me of calling him names, he informed me that my time here was indeed short and that i had "damned" myself...he also informed me that he thought i was "dangerous" to those around me....how's that for christian love....again if this is a liberal forum for liberals and liberals are the only ones allowed to express themselves just let me know and the door will not hit me where the good lord split me because i have learned that when a mod agrees with someone there realy is no point in opposing them.

I'm truly sorry that you and Aspen have bumped heads. And clearly there has been some behaviour on both sides that perhaps shouldn't have been displayed. But I can only urge you, if you have a complaint against him, to perhaps contact an admin via the 'report' button...that way what was meant for you in private will remain that way, and vise versa.

I have to say, that if you take very great exception to the doctrinal hiccups that we see here everyday, then you will give yourself an ulcer. We present the truth, with caring for the individual getting it wrong, and then we step back and let God work. That's all we can do, because one thing is for sure...constant fighting is fruitless and unbiblical.

 

[aspen]

BTW - it is very true - I am not afraid to be wrong about doctrine. Although, I believe abortion is murder and a mortal sin - I choose to oppose it through grassroots activism, not legislation. As far as homosexuality is concerned - it is a sin - and Christians should not practice it. I have always talked about the legalization of gay marriage outside the church.

Strat, why are you continuing to misrepresent me? And nice job telling half the story regarding a private pm - you want to redeem your character by telling the whole story publicly too?

I like your quote, Rach

"In essentials.....Unity...
In non-essentials.....liberty...
But in all things......love..."

 

[brightmorningstar]

Recently, I have run into several people, online and in real life, who equate working with people in need as simply another way to brag about their piety. As if Christ never called us to love people through service - and what we really should be spending our time doing is studying the scriptures and limiting our service to others to saving them from Hell.

Of course the gospel is both. The problem for the church in the west at this time is that the world and humanism only recognises giving a cup of water to the thirsty, which means they will be thirsty again, whereas the water that Christ gives means no one will thirst again. The church that is giving the gospel gives both.

I heard in an interview on BBC last year that about 1/3 of all UK voluntary and charity work in the UK is done by faith groups, almost all churches and Christians. Funny then that with all the charity reports one sees on BBC TV programs there is rarely ever any mention of Christ.

aspen2
Both the abortion and homosexuality issues are key moral indicators of a society that has badly degenerated and turned away from God. Whilst ultimately only a change of heart and mind can stop people breaking the law, that doesnt mean laws should not be put in place as a deterant esecially if its a choice between upsetting someone and saving the life of an unborn child.
But there is another downside to your approach. Take the 'gay marriage' issue. At present the media is intervierwing all the clergy they can find who support it in any way. They jump on any perceived opportuniuty. Liberal secularism is saying there are some Christians who still object to gay marriage (when most Christians do) and some Christians dont want to vote against 'gay marriage' (that would be you) implying support. They are interviewing the head of the lgbt group Stonewall at every opportunity but not any of the many homosexuals in the church or the media who do not support it or do not particularly want it.

Now it is Jesus Christ who changes hearts and minds and He does that to those who get convicted whatever their state. People can and do get convicted when they are angry as well as when they are open. The gospel is going to be an offense to some and a salvation to others, one cannot withold it just because it upsets some because some others will then not hear it and thus miss out.​

One of the most frustrating things at the moment with liberals on forums is that they play along as though tolerant but seek positions of modertations and ultimately expel believers when they rubber hits the road.​

 

[Strat]

It is the age of the heretic and apostate...Aspen and his kind are simply having their day....another day will come for them.

 

[aspen]

It is the age of the heretic and apostate...Aspen and his kind are simply having their day....another day will come for them.

Apparently trolling is now allowed on this site.

Of course the gospel is both. The problem for the church in the west at this time is that the world and humanism only recognises giving a cup of water to the thirsty, which means they will be thirsty again, whereas the water that Christ gives means no one will thirst again. The church that is giving the gospel gives both.

Actually true humanists would provide water for the thirst and then teach the people how to dig wells - The Peace Corps is a good example of a humanist organization.

I heard in an interview on BBC last year that about 1/3 of all UK voluntary and charity work in the UK is done by faith groups, almost all churches and Christians. Funny then that with all the charity reports one sees on BBC TV programs there is rarely ever any mention of Christ.

I am glad to hear that churches are still providing a third of all charity work - they should be increasing their share every year. The BBC is not Christian and probably edit out any mention of Christ. Why is this surprising?

aspen2
Both the abortion and homosexuality issues are key moral indicators of a society that has badly degenerated and turned away from God.

Of course it is. It is also a reflection of how badly the Christian church has treated unwed mothers and their unwanted children. It also illustrates the terrible system of adoption in the United States.

Whilst ultimately only a change of heart and mind can stop people breaking the law, that doesnt mean laws should not be put in place as a deterant esecially if its a choice between upsetting someone and saving the life of an unborn child.

As I said before - abortion laws need reform. However, the best way to fight abortion is to provide a better option. The problem is, the same people that complain the loudest about mothers killing their children also complain about helping out people who they consider to be sinners. It is the judgment of the church against unwed mothers that often drives the youngest women to get abortions. Are judgmentalness can be clearly seen in our rhetoric towards people who get abortions - 'baby killers', 'mothers murdering their children out of convenience' - all of those labels only proves to mothers considering abortion that the church is the last place they should go for help.

Take the 'gay marriage' issue. At present the media is intervierwing all the clergy they can find who support it in any way. They jump on any perceived opportuniuty. Liberal secularism is saying there are some Christians who still object to gay marriage (when most Christians do) and some Christians dont want to vote against 'gay marriage' (that would be you) implying support. They are interviewing the head of the lgbt group Stonewall at every opportunity but not any of the many homosexuals in the church or the media who do not support it or do not particularly want it.

Ah the age old persecution complex......the poor Christians are getting persecuted because the secular media supports people outside the church and goes out of it's way to find Christians who support them too. See, it is difficult for me to find sympathy for your position - you want to dictate what nonchristian citizens can and cannot do in their own country AND you want to play the victim too. Please! You need to have your cake OR eat it.

Now it is Jesus Christ who changes hearts and minds and He does that to those who get convicted whatever their state. People can and do get convicted when they are angry as well as when they are open. The gospel is going to be an offense to some and a salvation to others, one cannot withold it just because it upsets some because some others will then not hear it and thus miss out.​

The gospel is not withholding homosexual marriage or outlawing abortion.​

One of the most frustrating things at the moment with liberals on forums is that they play along as though tolerant but seek positions of modertations and ultimately expel believers when they rubber hits the road.​

So now I, the slanderously labeled 'Liberal Christian' is a threat to all the real Christians on the board because my tolerance is going to make them look like they have no empathy? Excuse me, but I think you need to take some responsibility for your own opinions. :)​

 

[Strat]

Once again this apostate displays for all to see what he realy is...abortion is the fault of christians not people living immoral lives and sacrificing all at the altar of their pleasures and lust...poor little sinners being picked on by those big ole mean christIans who don't want to clean up their messes and pay their bills so they can sin with impunity bad bad bad

Persecution complex,don't worry Aspen when persecution comes they will leave their friends alone.

Terrible system of adoption ? what's wrong with it

"The gospel is not witholding homosexual marriage or outlawing abortion ? congratulations,that's the most biblically illiterate thing you have said so far.

Aspen,.quit whinning like a little girl,you are a liberal

I see you saved the comedy for last...its a real belly laugh for you to suggest that you could make a real christian look bad to anybody that matters

 

[aspen]

Strat, you've made it clear that nobody matters but you in your narrow little world.

 

[Rach1370]

I think adoption is a beautiful thing...Jesus was adopted (by Joseph!), and I think that many Christian families should consider it. The problem is that it's just so difficult to adopt! I know that many laws are there to stop abusive people adopting kids...but let's face it, sadly many of those laws do absolutely squat to stop abuse. If the cost of adopting wasn't so hefty, and the laws and hoops were lessened, we may find that many more kids would land in good homes. It saddens me sometimes to think of all the kids, especially in poverty struck and war torn countries, who would be benefited and amazed by the lifestyle that even a 'poor' family could give them!

As far as abortion goes...well, I don't think we can place blame on the church...or anyone institution. Ultimately, the choice resides with the woman going in to force the baby from her body. There are always options. If one 'Church' is demanding and cruel, there is always the opportunity to go somewhere else...I know plenty of Churches who would welcome a struggling single mother. I'm not saying it's easy...but how many woman out there have done the young, single mother thing? It is possible. I feel it's just too easy for them to make the decision to 'get rid' of an inconvenience. If they were asked if they would shoot a random kid on the street, they would be horrified. If they were given a knife, and their baby placed in front of them...I wonder how much 'abortion' would drop.