Calling Good Evil, and Evil Good

[Prentis]

Hi to all! :)

There is a tendency in mainstream Christianity, sadly, to teach that those who are Christian by belief and do good (in the simple sense, like giving food) do it by the work of God, and to say that unbelievers who do such things are evil, and do it out of evil intentions. We make the good samaritan a Christian somehow, and say that however looks like him but isn't is no good.

What we have come to do is call good evil, and evil good.

When people who do not believe in Christ are genuinely loving, care for the poor, are humble, we consider them enemies of God. We call it evil.

When we justify ourselves by what we believe or what we have done, we call that good. We think we should have assurance of our salvation. We think we can judge ourselves. Yet the Bible says we cannot justify ourselves, only God judges.

 

[Prentis]

Yes. We as Christians are called to something higher, to be like Christ. Only I think it's a mistake when we look at those who are not Christians and judge them.

1 Corinthians 5:12
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

We cannot judge those outside. And we cannot justify ourselves. Both these things we must leave to God. We need to have a 'what is it to you?' attitude and strive to attain Christ, not as though we already had, but pressing on...

Blessings to all!

 

[Shirley]

Amen brother! People are won by the love of God shining through us. The little lady next door who loved and baked cookies has more chance to show the way than someone who runs around condemning people. I wonder this- If you know a sinner and you know that this life is all the good they are going to get then why would you want to make it miserable for them? I know Christian parents who will not even be kind to wayward children and they justify themselves b/c they are not condoning sin. Neither are they loving. Non Christians have been more loving to me than the majority of the Christians that I know. Everyone at one point or another does a deed of kindness!

 

[tomwebster]

Hi to all! :)

There is a tendency in mainstream Christianity, sadly, to teach that those who are Christian by belief and do good (in the simple sense, like giving food) do it by the work of God, and to say that unbelievers who do such things are evil, and do it out of evil intentions. We make the good samaritan a Christian somehow, and say that however looks like him but isn't is no good.
...

When people who do not believe in Christ are genuinely loving, care for the poor, are humble, we consider them enemies of God. We call it evil.

...

Give an example from "main stream Christianity" of this happening.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Interesting concept Prentis you deep thinker you. Think about this though, a non christian man helps out at a soup kitchen. It gets a big spot in the paper and everyone adorns him. Jesus watches it and the man does not know him. What comes to mind doesn't seem like evil.
Of course we are never to repay kindness with evil Jesus said that it is one of the worst sins someone can commit.

 

[Prentis]

Give an example from "main stream Christianity" of this happening.

Example #1
I've heard many baptists teach this. Paul Washer is an exemple. The idea that we are somehow a superior being that does good acts out of love and that all others, simply because of a lack of revelation of Christ are certainly doing it out of some crooked motive is popular in western Christianity. I've heard many preach it.

Whenever we justify ourselves thinking that because we believe we are saved, and condemn another for not believing, we make that very mistake. We dont realize that the battle is fought between powers.

Amen to Shirley! :) Some non-Christians are loving, and dont pretend to have the truth. God prefers an honest wretch to a lying man who justifies himself. One is humble, the other is proud.

Comm. Arnold :) Consider this. The sheep, in the parable of the sheep and the goats, cannot be Christian. They say to Christ 'When have we fed you? When have we clothed you?' They are blind, but loving. Christians know who Christ is, as it is every one of their brothers, and they know when they have fed him. The parable of the sheeps and the goats is not about christians, but about those who lack the revelation that are judged. Christians are held up to a different standard.

 

[Rach1370]

Hi to all! :)

There is a tendency in mainstream Christianity, sadly, to teach that those who are Christian by belief and do good (in the simple sense, like giving food) do it by the work of God, and to say that unbelievers who do such things are evil, and do it out of evil intentions. We make the good samaritan a Christian somehow, and say that however looks like him but isn't is no good.

What we have come to do is call good evil, and evil good.

When people who do not believe in Christ are genuinely loving, care for the poor, are humble, we consider them enemies of God. We call it evil.

When we justify ourselves by what we believe or what we have done, we call that good. We think we should have assurance of our salvation. We think we can judge ourselves. Yet the Bible says we cannot justify ourselves, only God judges.

Hey Prentis! I agree that we shouldn't harp on about non Christians...let's face it, they're not much different from us...we just happen to have grace! I'm not suggesting we approve their sins, but we surely shouldn't condemn the nice things they do. We can't fool ourselves or them into thinking that those nice things save them, but they are nice things regardless.

It does bring to mind 'common grace'. The bible tells us that God has extended two forms of grace to the world. Saving grace...which is obviously the type Christians receive, that which saves us from sin. But common grace is boundless as well. It causes the sun to rise and set, the rain to fall, the crops to grow. I believe that it also covers conscience as well. Almost every human has within them a moral compass, and yet if we believe scripture we must believe that our sinful nature is complete. So that leaves grace. These people, though they are not saved, are acting on something within them that urges them to do good. It does not make them saved, but we shouldn't forget that they are probably doing God's work anyway. We all are in one way or another!

 

[Prentis]

I agree Rach :)

I think we must also be careful not to assume about their situation. God says 'I will have mercy on who I have mercy' and he says also, 'to he who gives mercy, God gives mercy'. It also says everyone will be rewarded according to their deeds, everyone reaps what they sow.

God gives mercy to the mercifull, and he will reward man accordingly. Having the revelation of Christ does not lower the standard to which we are held, but heightens it. To who much is given, much is required.

 

[Rach1370]

I agree Rach :)

I think we must also be careful not to assume about their situation. God says 'I will have mercy on who I have mercy' and he says also, 'to he who gives mercy, God gives mercy'. It also says everyone will be rewarded according to their deeds, everyone reaps what they sow.

God gives mercy to the mercifull, and he will reward man accordingly. Having the revelation of Christ does not lower the standard to which we are held, but heightens it. To who much is given, much is required.

Oh, totally! C.S.Lewis said that every day and every single person we talk to will either become an almost angelic being (new bodies in heaven) or a beastly creature of torment (suffering souls in hell), and how we interact with them today, will help them towards either one or the other. Every single person is 'immortal', in the sense that they will live forever...not in this body, but their souls will continue, and we should look at everyone, and interact with them in light of that.

 

[tomwebster]

Example #1
I've heard many baptists teach this. Paul Washer is an exemple. The idea that we are somehow a superior being that does good acts out of love and that all others, simply because of a lack of revelation of Christ are certainly doing it out of some crooked motive is popular in western Christianity. I've heard many preach it.
...

That's why I don't listen to "main stream Christianity" and why I've never heard of Paul Washer.

 

[jiggyfly]

Good thread Prentis, the things you mention, love and kindness are fruits of HolySpirit. There are many Christians who think that HolySpirit only works with believers. Yet the scriptures tell us that God poured out His Spirit on everyone and that HolySpirit is convicting everyone of their sins.

 

[veteran]

That's why I don't listen to "main stream Christianity" and why I've never heard of Paul Washer.

My sentiments too. And just because some preachers out there say certain things, they certainly do not represent the majority of Christ's Body anyway. Those who say such things only represent themselves, and not God in it.

 

[veteran]

What God said about this...

Isa 5:18-20
18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let Him make speed, and Hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
(KJV)

The idea in the Hebrew of drawing iniquity with cords of vanity is an expression for an evil doer pulling around their sins on open display for others see, like advertising it. Are some doing that today, and calling it good? Yes; we see that with flaming gays quite a bit with the 'gay pride' festivals and parades, etc.

That is more in the ballpark of what our Lord was talking about with those who put evil for good.

What of those who put good for evil? God's Word says to not spare the rod when disciplining our children, yet the Liberals treat that idea like it means to literally beat up our children and say it is doing evil. Christ told His disciples who didn't yet have one, to go buy a sword (Luke 22). Yet a lot of Liberals think it's wrong to own a weapon for self-defense.

The list of things being swaped as good and evil could go on and on.

 

[Prentis]

To call good evil and vice versa is not just about the obvious external sins. The Pharisees were accused of the same thing, in other words, when Jesus said 'take heed that the light that is in you is not darkness'. They weren't 'open gays'...

What is also evil, that we have come to call good, is to justify oneself by his beliefs. The religious elite are at great risk of doing this, for this very reason; Jesus says that if you are blind, and admit that you are, the sin is not held against you, but if you claim to see and yet you are blind, your sin remains.

To write the warnings of the bible off as being for the externally dirty is not a good idea; God is pointing to us. Myself included, yes. :)

 

[martinlawrencescott]

Comm. Arnold :) Consider this. The sheep, in the parable of the sheep and the goats, cannot be Christian. They say to Christ 'When have we fed you? When have we clothed you?' They are blind, but loving. Christians know who Christ is, as it is every one of their brothers, and they know when they have fed him. The parable of the sheeps and the goats is not about christians, but about those who lack the revelation that are judged. Christians are held up to a different standard.

I've never heard this before. I'm curious because I've been taught we are judged by the 10 commandments, and there isn't any person outside of Christ who is considered righteous by that standard. Then again, you mentioned those who never have Christ revealed to them in this life and still have good works. Haven't considered this scripture like that before. Thanks.

 

[Prentis]

Indeed :)

It is easy to judge those outside, thinking they do not have as much as us... Only that is carnal thinking, opposed to Christ. According to Christ, receiving more means being accountable for more.

The outsiders are a law to themselves by their conscience, and by this they will be judged. If they do indeed do what is right, are honest, and love, in that respect, they have obeyed God. Do they justify themselves by the law? No. God justifies them.

I used to think like that, until some brother simply told me that it wasn't how it worked, and showed me in the word.

 

[veteran]

To call good evil and vice versa is not just about the obvious external sins. The Pharisees were accused of the same thing, in other words, when Jesus said 'take heed that the light that is in you is not darkness'. They weren't 'open gays'...

What is also evil, that we have come to call good, is to justify oneself by his beliefs. The religious elite are at great risk of doing this, for this very reason; Jesus says that if you are blind, and admit that you are, the sin is not held against you, but if you claim to see and yet you are blind, your sin remains.

To write the warnings of the bible off as being for the externally dirty is not a good idea; God is pointing to us. Myself included, yes. :)

It's not just about everybody that sins. It's about those who sin and know it, and ADVERTISE IT AS GOOD! Get a clue.

As a matter of fact, it's even about those who TRY TO REBUKE GOD'S PEOPLE FOR EXPOSING THOSE WHO ADVERTISE THEIR SINS LIKE THERE'S NOTHING WRONG!

 

[lightning63]

These are quotes from the Bible about how God regards good works.

Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God, whoever does evil has not seen God. 3 John 11

This is the aim of Christianity

The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 1 Timothy 1:5