Can a Believer overcome physical death Now?

[NewDiscovery]

Can a Believer overcome physical death Now? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------hello to all!I am asking some forums this question regardingJohn 11 v 24-25-26Martha - John 11 v 24 Messiah - John 11 v 25-26
Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
there are the 2 ways exposed. This is the core message of the bible and why the Messiah came To reverse the curse. 2 tim.1 v 10 -gives His Believers the real Goodnews, saying
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
askwas He inside some alien life form or a wonderfull made human body Was this 'wonderfully'' made human body designed for eternal life - consider Messiah on the Mt of transfiguration Math 17 v 1 and the displaying of Christ IN A HUMAN BODY. the NT is clear that -few find eternal life. SO! what do the rest find then? few find the way to be as Messiah is why? they are brainwashed by religion....who says ''wait till ye die''. yet Here and now we are told ''put off courruption'' and ''put off mortal'' We are told of * our transformation, * the new covenant, * the new birth, * renewing of the mind, * dying on the cross daily, * sanctification and righteousness and justification, * to be Holy as He is Holy, * a quickened Spirit, * heirs and adopted into the Royal house. etc yet NO one church ever majors in the ENTRANCE INTO ETERNAL LIFE, not after death but while THEY ARE ALIVE, just as MESSIAH IS ETERNAL LIFE, so are His church. ETERNAL LIFE PEOPLE... for He says notice please.... ''I will Build MY church [ not the corrupt system of corporate religion] but I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, and the gates [openings] of Hell/grave [the law of sin and death] shall not prevail [get the better of] against her'' the religious church builds its people -they die Yahushua builds HIS CHURCH - DESIGNER MADE- THEY LIVE AS HE LIVES. John 11 v 25-26.why?they are t.r.a.n.s.f.o.r.m.e.d. by the renewing of their minds. something to really wonder over.Messiah words are the truth amen!do we believe them?

 

[tomwebster]

(NewDiscovery;56155)
Can a Believer overcome physical death Now?
Why would anyone want to be stuck in these flesh bodies? Why?

 

[NewDiscovery]

(tomwebster;56156)
Why would anyone want to be stuck in these flesh bodies? Why?
Messiah did not have ''a problem'' with His flesh body, infact the bible states the body is wonderfully made, after all it renews itself ever 7yrs. without sin within it would last forever according to the medicos. Notice the Messiah even glowed white thru His flesh body.Do you think you would ever glow white too? or are you waiting to die first.but wait,:study:to die means the law of sin and death is still operational within and the law of life in the Spirit was not attained too here and now?ummmm something to ponder.

 

[tomwebster]

(NewDiscovery;56160)
...infact the bible states the body is wonderfully made, after all it renews itself ever 7yrs. without sin within it would last forever according to the medicos. Notice the Messiah even glowed white thru His flesh body.Do you think you would ever glow white too? or are you waiting to die first.but wait,:study:to die means the law of sin and death is still operational within and the law of life in the Spirit was not attained too here and now?ummmm something to ponder.
Well your body might not be aging but mine sure is. Our flesh bodies are wonderfully made, but they are not made to last forever. We were never meant to be in flesh forever. Christ's flesh body was even aging. I don't want to live in this flesh body forever. I want to go home to be with my Father in Heaven. And as long as I'm in a flesh body I can not do that.

 

[Letsgofishing]

This is a real interesting take on those verses, new discovery. I love the enthusiasm and the joy you have when you share this view on this topic. But I'm going to have to disagree with you. Lets take a look at mathew 6:25-34 "25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Now if Jesus was talking about our physical life in John 11:24-26 as you suggest then why would he turn around and say "take no thought into your life" in the passage above. This is because he is not talking about physical life in John 11:24-26 but our spiritual life which was previously dead but is now alive, thanks to his death and ressurection. Do you see the verses you quote hold a much more beautiful truth, not the salvation of our sinful earthly bodies, but the salvation of our souls.

God Bless Your brother in christ Ryan Fitz

 

[NewDiscovery]

it sure is a mystery hey Ryan,one verse seems to cancels out the others..... infact the whole bible seems to do this all the time. I guess that is why there are ''wars in the church'' verse wars that is It is a paradox hey.....that is why a believer needs the Holy Spirit to teach them and make them Holy here and now.howeverdid u notice Martha's version is the same as the church.[john 11 v 24]yetThe Saviour told His version and how it is.....yet.....why do people -church people that is -believe Martha and that system she lived under rather than THE SAVIOUR'S take on *THE* LIFE AND BELIEVING.Do you believe Martha version and not the Saviour revelation.?why dont people BELIEVE the Saviour?look at what He accomplished and the Gospel he taught = 2 Tim. 1 v 9-11.have u looked here at this verse Ryan?
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
this is THE CORE to our salvation - the reverse of the curse.how?to put off our mortal and put on immortality is a here and now.ofcourse the Religious Jews hated Yahushua for His message OF *THE* LIFE.now.... to Tom Websterhello Tom.where is heaven - you dont die to get there Tom. It is not a location out there someplace in the bye and bye, but a REALM inside a person _ Yahushua said so - that is why they can shine white when fully matured in Christ, and become His image here on earth. It is called ''the hope of Glory''.some pondering to do hey?

 

[tomwebster]

(NewDiscovery;56184)
...now.... to Tom Websterhello Tom.where is heaven - you dont die to get there Tom. It is not a location out there someplace in the bye and bye, but a REALM inside a person _ Yahushua said so - that is why they can shine white when fully matured in Christ, and become His image here on earth. It is called ''the hope of Glory''.some pondering to do hey?
Well, I don't know what you have been reading but my Bible says that "1Co 15 ... that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"; and that, " corruption cannot inherit incorruption." and that, "we shall all be changed," and " the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption,"And yes, you should do some pondering.

 

[NewDiscovery]

yes. Tom u r right....the flesh and blood of man, refers to the carnalmindedness of man, or that soul of man- the serpent controls. Remembering Yahushua was flesh and blood when He walked this earth. He contained 'heaven' within Himself.He contained *THE* life within Himself as death could not manifest in Him.Yes He died- but He gave up His life as a sacrifice for all men! There is a vast difference.His carnalmindedness failed to rule over HIM. Unfortunately people are corrupt when they die, otherwise Tom, they would not sucumb to the laws of sin and death. The wages of sin is death. hence they die in sin. The doctor should write on the death cert. ''this person died from sin''.People have not learnt how to walk in ''life in the Spirit'' which is the same life called *THE* LIFE the Saviour walked in.and yes, we shall be changed by putting on the MIND OF CHRIST - here and now - the new mind defeats the carnalmindedness that is called DEATH.see Romans 8 v 7.and yes, the dead shall raise incorruptable.....they are doing this now, by putting on the mind of Christ.let the dead bury the dead said Yahushua.... dead people die.howeverTHE NEW CREATURETHE NEW WINESKINTHE NEW COVENANTTHE NEW WAYS OF LIVING - are happening within a people today here and now called 'HIS CHURCH' of whom it is said '' the gates of hell/grave shall not prevail against her''now the grave does prevail against all divisional churches. Yahushua came to put the funeral business out of commission.amen.people do not realise it all happens here and how.... the redeemed !Tom do you not value the words of divinity and life of the Messiah found in John 11 v 25-26?after all that is the core question each person has to ask themselves.

 

[jtartar]

(NewDiscovery;56155)
Can a Believer overcome physical death Now? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------hello to all!I am asking some forums this question regardingJohn 11 v 24-25-26Martha - John 11 v 24 Messiah - John 11 v 25-26 there are the 2 ways exposed. This is the core message of the bible and why the Messiah came To reverse the curse. 2 tim.1 v 10 -gives His Believers the real Goodnews, sayingaskwas He inside some alien life form or a wonderfull made human body Was this 'wonderfully'' made human body designed for eternal life - consider Messiah on the Mt of transfiguration Math 17 v 1 and the displaying of Christ IN A HUMAN BODY. the NT is clear that -few find eternal life. SO! what do the rest find then? few find the way to be as Messiah is why? they are brainwashed by religion....who says ''wait till ye die''. yet Here and now we are told ''put off courruption'' and ''put off mortal'' We are told of * our transformation, * the new covenant, * the new birth, * renewing of the mind, * dying on the cross daily, * sanctification and righteousness and justification, * to be Holy as He is Holy, * a quickened Spirit, * heirs and adopted into the Royal house. etc yet NO one church ever majors in the ENTRANCE INTO ETERNAL LIFE, not after death but while THEY ARE ALIVE, just as MESSIAH IS ETERNAL LIFE, so are His church. ETERNAL LIFE PEOPLE... for He says notice please.... ''I will Build MY church [ not the corrupt system of corporate religion] but I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, and the gates [openings] of Hell/grave [the law of sin and death] shall not prevail [get the better of] against her'' the religious church builds its people -they die Yahushua builds HIS CHURCH - DESIGNER MADE- THEY LIVE AS HE LIVES. John 11 v 25-26.why?they are t.r.a.n.s.f.o.r.m.e.d. by the renewing of their minds. something to really wonder over.Messiah words are the truth amen!do we believe them?
New Discovery, There is no way for a person today to keep from going into the grave, Hades. Ps 89:48, asks the question; what ablebodied man is there alive who will not see death? Can he provide escape for his soulm from the hand of sheol, or grave?? Then we have an answer at Ps 22:29, where we are told that no man will ever preserve his own soul alive. Ps 49:6-10, tells us that no man can redeem another person, because the redemptive price is too high. Ecce 3:18-20, tells us that there is ONE eventuality, to both man and animals. Both return to the dust from where we came. Ecce 9:2,3, says that all have the SAME EVENTUALITY, the grave, sheol, Ecce 9:10. The reason that no one can escape death is, Rom 6:23, the wages of sin is death. We are all sinners!! Ecc 7:20, Rom 3:23, 5:12, 1John 1:8-10. The scriptures you mentioned att John 11:21-27, are often not understood properly. We know through experience that all die, up to now, so what did Jesus mean at 11:26? Notice that Jesus and Martha were discussing the resurrection, 11:24,25. The resurrection takes place after Armageddon, in the Judgement Day, Rev 20:4-6, 11,12,John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15. So what Jesus was telling Martha was; anyone who is alive at the time of the resurrection, will never die. Jesus was not talking about this system of things. Consider Rev 7:14, where the scripture tells about some coming OUT of the great tribulation. These ones that live through the great tribulation have the chance of living forever and never dying, because after Armageddon the full benefit of Jesus Ransom Sacrifice will then be in full force, Matt 20:28, 1Tim 2:4-6, Heb 2:9, 2Cor 5:14,15.

 

[NewDiscovery]

jtartarso you dont actually believe the Messiah and his testimony/gospel - that he abolished death....and defeated the works of the devil.again .....you believe Martha's version - all the church does and Messiah's advice is of no-account.that is sad. how are u ever able to overcome your last enemy called death, when your'e dead?if u die - sin killed you.you could not overcome all things in Christ.now this is my last reply.I get sick of church people calling My Saviour a Liar.

 

[jeffhughes]

(NewDiscovery;56216)
jtartarso you dont actually believe the Messiah and his testimony/gospel - that he abolished death....and defeated the works of the devil.again .....you believe Martha's version - all the church does and Messiah's advice is of no-account.that is sad. how are u ever able to overcome your last enemy called death, when your'e dead?if u die - sin killed you.you could not overcome all things in Christ.now this is my last reply.I get sick of church people calling My Saviour a Liar.
So, to make sure that I understand you correctly...are you saying that when you get old and gray, you will not die physically? What will happen to you? Are you just going to go straight up into heaven, or what?I've always understood Jesus to be talking about spiritual death that he conquered - not physical death. Otherwise, where the heck are the apostles now? Surely they would have been able to conquer death as well, being so close to Jesus?

 

[tomwebster]

(NewDiscovery;56191)
yes. Tom u r right....the flesh and blood of man, refers to the carnalmindedness of man, or that soul of man- the serpent controls. Remembering Yahushua was flesh and blood when He walked this earth. He contained 'heaven' within Himself.He contained *THE* life within Himself as death could not manifest in Him.Yes He died- but He gave up His life as a sacrifice for all men! There is a vast difference.His carnalmindedness failed to rule over HIM. Unfortunately people are corrupt when they die, otherwise Tom, they would not sucumb to the laws of sin and death. The wages of sin is death. hence they die in sin. The doctor should write on the death cert. ''this person died from sin''.People have not learnt how to walk in ''life in the Spirit'' which is the same life called *THE* LIFE the Saviour walked in.and yes, we shall be changed by putting on the MIND OF CHRIST - here and now - the new mind defeats the carnalmindedness that is called DEATH.see Romans 8 v 7.and yes, the dead shall raise incorruptable.....they are doing this now, by putting on the mind of Christ.let the dead bury the dead said Yahushua.... dead people die.howeverTHE NEW CREATURETHE NEW WINESKINTHE NEW COVENANTTHE NEW WAYS OF LIVING - are happening within a people today here and now called 'HIS CHURCH' of whom it is said '' the gates of hell/grave shall not prevail against her''now the grave does prevail against all divisional churches. Yahushua came to put the funeral business out of commission.amen.people do not realise it all happens here and how.... the redeemed !Tom do you not value the words of divinity and life of the Messiah found in John 11 v 25-26?after all that is the core question each person has to ask themselves.
NewDiscovery,Most of this 'stuff' you wrote is just plan wrong. You are good at twisting Scripture. When I get time I will show you where you are wrong although you will not understand it.

 

[dancarlson]

Jesus repeatedly said "All things are possible to those who believe (Mark 9:23)

This is a basic principle - not an exception to the rule.

"All things" must of necessity include those things which in the Bible were accomplished through faith - such as Enoch overcoming physical death (Heb. 11:5).

God shows no favoritism (Acts 10:34).

What the Lord has done for one, he is willing to do for all who believe (Rom. 2:11)

Exercising faith pleases the Lord, for without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6).

Therefore, overcoming physical death by faith is pleasing to God!

Death was the consequence of Adam's disobedience (Rom. 5:12)

Jesus died in our place (Rom. 5:8). Christ took the curse of sin away from us (Gal/ 3:13).

He died and rose again that we might live and not die (2 Cor. 5:15; Psa. 118:17).

We need not repay the debt (physical death) which Jesus already paid for us - unless we do not accept that gift of grace by faith.

To deny these truths is to deny the very words of Christ and his apostles.

The apostles all died as martyrs (except maybe for John) - a most noble calling!

With God all things are possible, but he limits himself by our lack of faith, as was the case in Nazareth (Matt. 13:58)

What you truly believe, you receive (Mark 11:24)

 

[ewq1938]

Can a Believer overcome physical death Now?

No. Everyone is mortal and intended to die eventually. The only exception are those in Christ who live to see Him return.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Sleep here means die not sleep. It's a figure of speech.

 

[ewq1938]

(NewDiscovery;56160)
...infact the bible states the body is wonderfully made, after all it renews itself ever 7yrs. without sin within it would last forever according to the medicos. Notice the Messiah even glowed white thru His flesh body.Do you think you would ever glow white too?

The cells die and reproduce but the body is never as young or as good as it was before. Sin has nothing to do with people dying physically. God made humans mortal. Even Jesus aged and would have died eventually had he not been killed and he never sinned.