Can God trust you with his money?

[Kidron]

I wonder why it is, that a lot of believers assume....that if a person has money, it must be because its their God.
I think this type of foregone concluding, is very unfair, if not completely unfounded regarding most believers who are financially well off..
I dont mean to sound offensive, but are you someone God cant trust to give a million dollars?
And if he did, would you not use it for his glory according to his will?
Could you not be a channel whereby God flows financial blessing THROUGH to others?
And if you are, then why castigate any believer whom God wants to bless financially?
Isnt it up to God?
And does he not do it based on obedience, faith, and according to his will?

Joyce Meyers and James Robinson are 2 good examples.
Both are rich, and both spend millions on water wells in Africa, Hospitals in 3rd world areas, and in general just feeding the poor.
I think there is a lesson here., and that is........God has "riches in Glory" that are not just spiritual, and he is always looking for a faith channel to pour $$$$$ through.
Why cant you , reader, be such a channel?
Are you saying you will betray God if he gives you a lot of money?
Are you saying that if you cant handle it, then i cant<, or noone can who is born again?
That is fallacy, related to an opinion you have, if you have it.........and it just wrong-minded.

Look, you know what poverty does?
It traps you into a survival situation, and in this situation you are not able to give most of your time to God, because you are spending all your time trying to survive.
Listen, TIME is how you spend your Christianity........understand?
And if you have a life that is spent trying to survive, then most of your time is not being spent for God.
Thats a FACT.
So, having money frees you from having to spend all your time trying to feed yourself/faily and pay BILLS, etc.
And in this, you have TIME for God that you will not have if you are poor.
Dont even try to argue a ridiculous argument about this.
Just face the fact that if you are poor, your life , your time, is going to be spent trying to survive, FIRST,,,,,and then any time you have left over, ...maybe God gets it.
But if you have MONEY, you time changes.
Understand?
So, you think about that........a bit.........before you worship poverty as some God sent invention to enhance "spirituality"..
He didnt send anything that robs your time from him.
Fact.

Its the same with the phony theology that rants... ......"well you know Kidron, sometimes God sends cancer to TEST his saints.".
Well............. HORSEFEATHERS. !!!!!!!!!!!
He does NOT send what Jesus came to Destroy in John 10:10.

I think its a dangerous and harmful theology to run around blaming sickness and poverty on The KING of Glory.
And Jesus is a King., and we are heirs of a King.
He didnt come out of that grave the same way he went into it.......did you notice?
He went into it a dead suffering lamb, but he AROSE a KING OF KINGS, and we are the HEIR of this King.,and this KING is INSIDE YOU< and you are "IN CHRIST".
Did you forget?

Did you ever notice that Jesus never made anyone sick according to your bible?
Did he ever cast a demon INTO a person.?
Is he now CHANGED since he started living INSIDE YOU?
Are you thinking?

Yet, Christians today run around today all over the world, all over Christian forms, loaded for bear with their self-righteous theology pack tied to their mouths attributing sickness and poverty to the King and his Father, instead of blaming the DEVIL who came to kill, steal, and destroy......John 10:10
And its our bible that says Jesus came to DESTROY these very.= works.......John 10:10
So, is the bible lying?........or are Christians deceived who blame God for the very works the bible says Jesus came to "Destroy".
Listen, did Jesus The Christ come to give you "Life and that more abundantly".... or did he come to test you with Cancer and a Brain tumor and how it feels to bury a couple of your children before they are 7 years old.?
You need to figure out who is for you and who is against you.
You need to figure that out asap.

I do believe that the Gospel of John says its blasphemy against the Holy Spirit > to attribute to the Holy Spirit the works of the Devil.<

So be very careful , reader, whom you blame for poverty and attribute sickness to in the life of a Born Again Child of God.



AP

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[Jon-Marc]

I don't believe that money is evil, or that having money is against God's will. However, God said that "the LOVE of money is the root all evil"--not the money itself. People will do ANYTHING to get money--no matter who they have to hurt or kill to get it. They will trample on anyone who gets in their way to get to the money--even when doing so is unnecessary.

 

[biggandyy]

Once again, I aspire to be rich so I have nothing against wealth. Except when it is ill gotten as it appers to be with Joyce Meyers...

From here: http://www.biblestudyspace.com/profiles/blogs/heresies-in-the-church-tbn

For the most part, Meyer can spend the ministry's money any way she sees fit because her board of directors is handpicked. It consists of Meyer, her husband and all four of her children — all paid workers — as well as six of Meyer's closest friends. (Ministry officials said that daughter Laura Holtzmann has now resigned; state records still list her on the board.) "Our family is a huge help to us," Meyer said. "We couldn't do this if we didn't have somebody we trusted."

Board members Roxane and Paul Schermann are such close friends that for more than a decade they lived in the Meyers' home. The ministry employed both of them as high-level managers and in 2001 bought them a $334,000 home. Roxane Schermann no longer works at the ministry; her husband continues as a paid division manager. The Schermanns bought the house at the same price from the ministry in January. Delanie Trusty, the ministry's certified public accountant, also serves as the ministry board's secretary.

The board decides how the ministry's money is spent. The salaries of Meyer and her family are set by those board members who are not family members and are not employed by the ministry, Meyer's lawyer said. The arrangement meets IRS regulations, the lawyer said.

"We certainly wouldn't have enemies and people we don't know" on the board, Meyer said. "That wouldn't make any sense. Anybody who has a board is going to have people in favor of you."

Meyer and her ministry refuse to tell how much the ministry pays Meyer, her husband, her children and her children's spouses. "I don't make any more than I'm worth," Meyer said. "We're definitely within IRS guidelines."

Such an overlap between top administrators and board members concerns the IRS because "the opportunity to manipulate and control the organization is easier to accomplish," said Bruce Philipson of St. Paul, Minn., the IRS group manager of tax-exempt organizations for this region.

All that is against the law and and incredible kick in the face of folks who trust her snake oil salesmanship.

 

[Episkopos]

God has no need of money. Money is a man made commodity that leads to the worship of Mammon.

 

[biggandyy]

Whats the difference between the two???

 

[Episkopos]

Whats the difference between the two???

Mammon controls money...it is the power that says...everything costs something. We put a temporal value on things. So money is not actually Mammon itself, but the spirit behind it. If we will but worship mammon (temporal increase) then we will have all we desire in this world. That is the temptation of mammon. It promises hapiness.

 

[biggandyy]

Okaaaay...

 

[aspen]

funny.....

threaten a christian's wealth or private ownership and you get every mismatch verse in the book thrown at you like a well aimed missile. Somehow, I think Jesus may have had a different idea about wealth.

 

[Foreigner]

funny.....

threaten a christian's wealth or private ownership and you get every mismatch verse in the book thrown at you like a well aimed missile. Somehow, I think Jesus may have had a different idea about wealth.

-- Another unsubstantiated generality used to criticize all Christians.
It grows tiresome.

 

[aspen]

-- Another unsubstantiated generality used to criticize all Christians.
It grows tiresome.

Well by all means, take a nap.

I will stop talking about it when I stop seeing it.

I am concerned about Christian behavior not nonchristian behavior - but if you want to continue moralizing the damned, keep tilting at those windmills.

 

[7angels]

if what you all believe is true about money being evil then God is the most evil of all because he owns everything. you say God does not need money then how are we to spread the gospel without money? if every christian were poor then who would support the ministries that God has planned?

money is not evil in and of itself. it is how we use money that determines whether it is evil or not. the word teaches that God wants us to have our hearts desires and every good thing. but what it comes down to is whether or not we can handle the good things in life like money without losing sight of our benefactor who is God. many times i have seen God give people $100-$1000 and see what they do with it. mant times those that recieve the money spend it almost as fast as they get it. so if we cannot handle the little God gives us why would you think God will give you more when you cannot even manage what he gives you? then again who out there is able to believe God will actually give them $1 million? i know many of us would like that to happen to us but but few of us are able to believe for it. if we have no faith then you expect to never receive $1 million.

it is weird that people want God to provide money to them and yet they rob God themselves by not paying their tithes. we are according to scripture give God his portion before we take ours. by not giving God his due we are robbing him and on top of robbing God then we also want to be blessed by God.

God bless

 

[aspen]

God is worthy of His creation, no?

Where does it say we are worthy to own anything?

Personal ownership is a myth, anyway....

Possibly a damning myth if we put our faith in it, instead of God.

Chief Seattle was right - 'who can buy or sell the sky?"

 

[Kidron]

I don't believe that money is evil, or that having money is against God's will. However, God said that "the LOVE of money is the root all evil"--not the money itself. People will do ANYTHING to get money--no matter who they have to hurt or kill to get it. They will trample on anyone who gets in their way to get to the money--even when doing so is unnecessary.

Im reading that you are saying that the intense love of money is a problem that everyone has...
So you are saying that as everyone has this lust/love of money, then you cant be trusted with God's money.
Are you certain?


K

Once again, I aspire to be rich so I have nothing against wealth. Except when it is ill gotten as it appers to be with Joyce Meyers...

From here: http://www.biblestud...-the-church-tbn



All that is against the law and and incredible kick in the face of folks who trust her snake oil salesmanship.

So you are the type person who has decided that the Donald Trumps of the world and the Bill Gates of the world and the porn suppliers of the world who are making billions, should have the money, but someone like Joyce Meyer or Dr Billy Graham who also have a lot of money and who have spent most of their last 30 - 60 years in a hotel on the way to a meeting to tell people about Jesus, ..they should exist on minimum wage and crackers while you sit there in the AC and have a comfortable life typing texts about poverty on your Laptop.
You are typical of a Christian who has a poverty gospel mentality and wants all believers to live in a shack as a proof of their earnest spirituality,... while all full time sinners, all full time Christ rejectors, have all the money.
Its a good thing that God does not hold or share your opinion.



K

God has no need of money. Money is a man made commodity that leads to the worship of Mammon.

Pretty lame answer, Episkopos.
And thanks once again for proving that you are absolutely unable to respond to a Thread's topic with an answer that
is related to the thread's topic.
So i'll conclude that what you are really saying is that God cant trust you with money.
Got it.
Thx.



K

funny.....

threaten a christian's wealth or private ownership and you get every mismatch verse in the book thrown at you like a well aimed missile. Somehow, I think Jesus may have had a different idea about wealth.

Do you think that attributing sickness in the life of a believer to Chirst is not attributing the works of the Devil to Christ?
Better read your bible.
Try finding a verse where Jesus ever caused sickness.
Read John 10:10 and find out who your enemy really is...
And oh......the verse that says Paul had an "infirmity"?.......well before you yank that one out to throw it, just remember that Paul said that this was a
"messenger of Satan" sent to torment him.
He never said God sent it, he only said that God gave him the grace to deal with it.......at that time.........and the bible does not tell us that Paul was never delivered from this infirmity, so, dont accept that he wasn't.........just accept where it came from.
And perhaps the Lord will let you have the same if you ever get any advanced revelations as an apostle, die and go to heaven only to come back and write a good part of the New Testament.
Till that day arrives, aspen2, i will conclude by your answer that you dont believe that God could trust you with a lot of money.
Got it.
Thx.



K

-- Another unsubstantiated generality used to criticize all Christians.
It grows tiresome.

Yes


K

 

[aspen]

K Yes

You are welcome for all the back spacing and deletion......I accept no guilt or shame in declaring you a fool in the ways of God. I tried to redeem your message, but not one word was redeemable - it really was shocking to me! I admit it!

Our God is a God of mercy and love - He wants to be in relationship with Him - He wants to be in love with us - stop trying to put barriers between man and God - His Cross erased all barriers.......LOVE ABUNDANTLY
!!

 

[Kidron]

I am concerned about Christian behavior not nonchristian behavior -

Its interesting that you think that having money is "non-christian behavior".

Did you ever ask yourself why Paul thanked the Philippian Christians in verse 4:10 for giving him the money he needed.?
And let me ask you something else, oh tho with the mote in thy theological eye,.......How is it that we are to tithe 10% if we dont have any money.???
Well braniac???
How are we to give to the poor if we dont have any money?
How are the local church's AC and LIGHTS supposed to stay on if we dont have any money?
Dont you know it costs to reach the lost?
Do you have a family?............do they like to eat?...........do they need a bed and a roof above their head?
This takes MONEY.
Aspen2, You are the one with the money issue complex, not God..
Did you ever read about Soloman's wealth or the gold used to cover the temple of God?
Did you ever read about the streets of Gold in New Jerusalem?..........Do you think this is symbolism?
When you read ..."For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich".
Do you think this is just "spiritual" wealth?
Do you think that the "riches in Glory" that Paul talks about in Phillipians are only spiritual riches?
Jesus as the preincarnate God, was used by God to created everything that is created.
John 1:10 says he "created the world"..........so, do you think he does not OWN IT?
How RICH would you be if you created the world(S) the stars, the solar systems, the gold and the diamonds in the ground, and every living thing on top of the ground?
Do you know not that Jesus came out of the grave restored back to his original position as a KING OF KINGS
How many poor King of Kings do you personally know?
Well, Jesus is not one of them, fella.

As a matter of fact, if God called you to build a hospital in Uganda and also 1999 water wells, and said "do it".
How would you do it.????
With Money <!!!!
And where are you going to get that much money?
From a Cannon ink jet printer printing $20s and $100s all night for a year?

See, everything takes money, and God has to supply the money if he tells you to BUILD it.
Got that?
And to all of you who are violently opposed to the idea of a Christian with money........are you opposed to having a home, a car, a laptop, food in your fridge, a BIG SCREEN LCD TV, and cable?.....Do you have a nice digital camera?.....Do you have clothes and a sound system in your home?......Do you have jewelry and money in the bank and a few credit cards?........Do you have any Apple products like an Ipad or Iphone or IMac?
Didn't all that cost money????
Uh oh.........looks like GOD caught you with your hand in HIS money jar.........................
Yet you come here as if you are St Francis risen from the grave braying like a mad donkey about......."well, that Joyce Meyers, and all those Christians who talk about money as if it matters"...
Well, if you think it does not, then quit your job, live on the street, and prove you are not a hypocrite,... and THEN get back to the rest of us who understand that money matters .

You can bet your next trip to the ER, that money matters.
You can bet your next CHRISTMAS when you are out buying gifts, that money matters.
You can bet the next time you need your engine or transmission repaired, that money matters.
You can bet your starving family, that money matters.
YOU BET IT MATTERS.
Try living without money, all you who are so opposed to a Christian having plenty of it.

Now, Get this into your heads, all those who oppose those who have Jesus and money...
Salvation is FREE, but everything else costs MONEY.
You dont have to love money to realize that its very very important in life, all you have to have is common sense.





K

 

[aspen]

Its interesting that you think that having money is "non-christian behavior".

Not at all -most early Christians had no wealth.

Did you ever ask yourself why Paul thanked the Philippian Christians in verse 4:10 for giving him the money he needed.?

Why wouldn't he thank a beneficiary?

And let me ask you something else, oh tho with the mote in thy theological eye,.......How is it that we are to tithe 10% if we dont have any money.???
Well braniac???

Yikes......

How are we to give to the poor if we dont have any money?

Would we have to give to the poor if we shared it in the first place? If it is really God's money we are managing - I am not sure why sharing it is such a burden...

How are the local church's AC and LIGHTS supposed to stay on if we dont have any money?

Um...community? Apparently, you have never been to a third world country.....

Dont you know it costs to reach the lost?

Oh my.......

Do you have a family?............do they like to eat?...........do they need a bed and a roof above their head?
This takes MONEY.

You know nothing about my life - nothing. And, based on your ability to read your mail, you like it that way. Nice and neat.

Aspen2, You are the one with the money issue complex, not God..

Really? I know what is like to be poor - do you?

Did you ever read about Soloman's wealth or the gold used to cover the temple of God?
Did you ever read about the streets of Gold in New Jerusalem?..........Do you think this is symbolism?
When you read ..."For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich".
Do you think this is just "spiritual" wealth?
Do you think that the "riches in Glory" that Paul talks about in Phillipians are only spiritual riches?
Jesus as the preincarnate God, was used by God to created everything that is created.
John 1:10 says he "created the world"..........so, do you think he does not OWN IT?
How RICH would you be if you created the world(S) the stars, the solar systems, the gold and the diamonds in the ground, and every living thing on top of the ground?

I am seriously in fear for your soul - I am not joking. Jesus please help this poor soul to see the light of your glory - Help him to see that material wealth is nothing in your eyes and that your glory is found in the heart, sweet Jesus!

Do you know not that Jesus came out of the grave restored back to his original position as a KING OF KINGS
How many poor King of Kings do you personally know?
Well, Jesus is not one of them, fella.

Please stop....

As a matter of fact, if God called you to build a hospital in Uganda and also 1999 water wells, and said "do it".
How would you do it.????
With Money <!!!!
And where are you going to get that much money?
From a Cannon ink jet printer printing $20s and $100s all night for a year?

WOW.........

See, everything takes money, and God has to supply the money if he tells you to BUILD it.
Got that?

Did you get that from Jesus? If so, where? I never saw Jesus as a fundraiser...

And to all of you who are violently opposed to the idea of a Christian with money........are you opposed to having a home, a car, a laptop, food in your fridge, a TV and perhaps a BIG SCREEN LCD, and cable?..........Do you have clothes and a sound system in your home?......Do you have jewelry and money in the bank and a few credit cards?

I live paycheck to paycheck.....I have no TV......I drive a 1998 car with a bad transmission....I do have a five year old laptop and cable....I am privileged enough to have a Master's degree, but I work in a ministry, helping homeless youth..............my lifestyle seems to only offend Strat. I do not consider myself to be exceptional - I am only trying to live as Christ lived. I know I am blessed to live in the riches country in the world and I want for nothing.

Yet you come here as if you are St Francis risen from the grave braying like a mad donkey about......."well, that Joyce Meyers, and all those Christians who talk about money as if it matters"...

Do you really believe that? After all the time we have spent writing posts? Seriously?

Well, if you think it does not, then quit your job, live on the street, and prove you are not a hypocrite,... and THEN get back to the rest of us who understand that money matters .

Some thing deep inside me tells me that you would declare me 'lazy' and a 'degenerate' if I quite my job and lived on the street - convince me that I am wrong, friend.

You can bet your next trip to the ER that money matters.

Apparently you have no idea how our medical system works - taxpayers pick up the bill for homeless people and those without insurance who are forced to used the emergency room as their only form of healthcare.

You can bet your next CHRISTMAS when you are out buying gifts that money matters.

Oh brother.....Christmas is a luxury for the rich, friend, not a right.

You can bet the next time you need your engine or transmission repaired that money matters.

I walked two miles to work last week because I did not have gas money......how about you?

You can bet your starving family that money matters.
YOU BET IT MATTERS.
Try living without money, all you who are so opposed to a Christian having plenty of it.

Preaching to the choir, friend - a choir that refuses to bitch about their lot.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Only when obtaining money becomes more important than anything else does it become sin. Although I live in a 22-year-old RV, can no longer drive due to failing eyesight, and have to depend on others to take me wherever I need to go, I am rich in Christ. Yes, I would love to have a real house to live in, and not have to use a grocery list when I do my shopping but buy whatever I want. However, God has done what He promised, and ALL my NEEDS are met. He didn't promise to make us rich but to meet out needs.

I don't beleive that there is anything wrong with having riches, but how many are NOT corrupted by wealth? How many wealthy people put their trust in Christ and NOT in their riches? CAN a person be wealthy and NOT be corrupted? Yes, I believe he/she can, but ONLY if they put God's will first in their lives.

I met a couple once and literally felt the presence of the Holy Spirit as I approached them. I have never met another couple that was so happy. Their secret? They both put Christ first in their lives. Then the man put his wife's needs and happiness ahead of his own, and the wife did the same with her husband. I have never met another couple like that--that radiated the presence of the Holy Spirit, and the joy, peace, and happiness that is obtained by selflessly putting the Saviour first and their spouce first before themselves.

Too many are concerned only about their own wants and needs, "Marrying that woman will make ME happy", "Having children will make ME happy", "winning the lottery will make ME happy", "Buying that car will make ME happy", and the list goes on and on. People are too concerned about their own happiness to realize that they will never be happy as long as they selfishly seek happiness through wealth and possessions. Yes, I would LOVE to be rich, to be out of debt, never to have to use a grocery list, and to have things that I want and can't afford. However, if I must choose possessions over Christ, I'm not interested. There's a song that says, "Take the world but give me Jesus." He is worth FAR more than anything this world has to offer.

 

[Rach1370]

I think money is a tool, and it depends on how it is used. Remember Paul telling...um, the Galatians or Ephesians (can't remember and don't have the time now to look it up!) that they needed to share money and 'good things' with their pastor? A pastor needs to be supported...the spreading of the gospel needs to be supported, and these things don't come free...it takes money, and the bigger the output, the more money is required. Money spent in God's work is not evil, but a blessing given by him to make much of him.
That said, people are sinful. And so we will do sinful things...and that includes money. If money is more important to us than anything else, we will end up using people for it, and blaming God if we think we don't have enough. I have a real problem with the 'prosperity gospel' types, who sit pretty in their mansions and tell everyone else that if they aren't rich, then they don't have enough faith. They are turning God into a magic gene, who if is rubbed right, will spit out money. Money is not the end game of salvation...it's knowing and glorifying God. If God chooses to bless us with material wealth to further His gospel, great...if not, we rejoice any way.

Something else to think about:
"Prosperity cannot be a proof of God's favour, since it is what the devil promises to those who worship him (Matt 4:9)" - John Piper

 

[aspen]

Sorry Kidron - thought your post was written by someone else.

 

[Kidron]

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen 2 """""Not at all -most early Christians had no wealth.[/background]

This is the same for Christians today and it has nothing to do with God's will that his children be "poor".




[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2 """"Why wouldn't he thank a beneficiary? [/background]


He should.......after all he is serving the Lord who gives us the power to get wealth, who gave up his riches to become poor so that we could be rich, and futhermore, it is Paul himself who said that a pastor or minister or anyone who is in the 5 fold ministry should get paid "double'.



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen 2......Would we have to give to the poor if we shared it in the first place? If it is really God's money we are managing - I am not sure why sharing it is such a burden...[/background]


If all Christians had the financial blessing they are supposed to possess and if they used this to help the poor.............that is the idea?



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2.....Um...community? Apparently, you have never been to a third world country.....[/background]

Well i live in Israel, but this does not quite qualify as 3rd world, and your random association that "if 3rd world countries are poor" this means that God is for poverty is just dumb.
Plz offer me something better to respond to..
Thx.



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2.......You know nothing about my life - nothing. And, based on your ability to read your mail, you like it that way. Nice and neat.[/background]

Why would i want to know anything about it, unless you want me to....., ...and, about my mail.............there are "posts", "threads", and "PMs" on a forum, so, i'll have to ask you to clarify what you are describing, as i dont have any "mail" from you, and i have not posted or received any "mail" on the forum.



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2...""Really? I know what is like to be poor - do you?[/background]

"Poverty is the destruction of the poor", according to your bible.
And as God is not into the destruction of his born again children, ..........if i were you, i would not blame the lack of material finances on God or his Son.


[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen 2""""I am seriously in fear for your soul - I am not joking. Jesus please help this poor soul to see the light of your glory - Help him to see that material wealth is nothing in your eyes and that your glory is found in the heart, sweet Jesus![/background]

My "soul" is in the hands of the one who bought it with his blood......and thank you for your prayers, as i can always use them, and you can always use the practice.
And of course, ive not said that "material wealth" matters to God, i said it matters to US, and money really does matter.
Try paying for gas without it.
Try paying for your mortgage or your rent without it.
Give it a shot.



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen 2 """"[/background][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Did you get that from Jesus? If so, where? I never saw Jesus as a fundraiser...[/background]

No, i got that from Paul who got that from Jesus..
And once again i'll tell you..........If God calls you, YOU,.... to do anything that requires a building or equipment, then you have to pay for it.
>Money<.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have been inside a church building at least once?
Did you enjoy the AC?
Did you enjoy the lights and the carpet and the pews and the choir robes and the CAR you drove to get to the meeting?
Did you enjoy the sound-system that allowed the praise team and the pastor to be heard clearly?
>MONEY<
>MONEY<
.


[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2...I live paycheck to paycheck.....I have no TV......I drive a 1998 car with a bad transmission....I do have a five year old laptop and cable....I am privileged enough to have a Master's degree, but I work in a ministry, helping homeless youth..............my lifestyle seems to only offend Strat. I do not consider myself to be exceptional - I am only trying to live as Christ lived. I know I am blessed to live in the riches country in the world and I want for nothing.[/background]

Im glad to hear that you are working in some type of ministry.......I hope God blesses it with more money so that you can get a lot more "help" out there to the hurting.
Here is one thing ive learned.
You cant feed 5000 with a hug and a bible text.
Think about that.....
And something else, Aspen2...........If God blessed you with a good car, a high paying job, and a whole lot of money......wouldn't you be able to do more for those you want to help?
And to say......."not really"..... just proves you are trying to stay......."stuck on stupid".
Dont do that.
God does not want you poor, he wants you to be a CHANNEL, but he is blocked from making this happen as long as you resist being blessed.
Aspen2, you are not closer to Christ or more blessed if you are poor, you are just poor.

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Yet you come here as if you are St Francis risen from the grave braying like a mad donkey about......."well, that Joyce Meyers, and all those Christians who talk about money as if it matters"...[/background]
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2 """"[/background][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Do you really believe that? After all the time we have spent writing posts? Seriously?[/background]


I believe that God is not the author of poverty, nor is he satisfied or glorified when his people are living in lack.
MONEY is just a tool, and so, why should this tool not be in the hands of the redeemed so that it can be used to glorify God and spread his Kingdom.????
The problem is....... Many Christians have this idea that to be poor or to be sick is to be Christ-like, and this is simply not a fact.
Look, if you have trouble with money then just give it all away......but dont refuse it while trying to pretend you are spiritual if you do so.



[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2....Some thing deep inside me tells me that you would declare me 'lazy' and a 'degenerate' if I quite my job and lived on the street - convince me that I am wrong, friend.[/background]

If God calls you to live on the street, then do it.
Till then, and instead of chasing poverty, try broadening your theological aspect to realize that what money can do for you is give you more influence to do MORE for God.
THAT is what money can do for you if you will stop seeing money only as a way to buy stuff for yourself.
Listen, its fine to have stuff.....and its good to have enough money to be able to HELP.....and if you dont have enough, you cant...all you can do is just get by.
And as a child of God, as a joint heir with KING JESUS, he wants you to have enough and more then enough so that in this you are able to do more for him for THEM.
Try to see it that way, and then you will begin to see money as it should be viewed regarding being in the hands of a True Believer..
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)].[/background]

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2.....[/background][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Oh brother.....Christmas is a luxury for the rich, friend, not a right.[/background]

I simple dont believe that you dont buy presents or have not received any Christmas presents.
So, once again, you are pretending.
Dont do that

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Aspen2....I walked two miles to work last week because I did not have gas money......how about you?[/background]

I walk about 10 miles a week, but only for exercize.......
So, regarding what you said........is this what God wants you to be doing?
I dont think so.
I think that God wants you to be financially blessed so that you can be a blessing..... and if you cant even afford gas, you are not going to be much of a blessing.
If you can ever get it in your theological head that Money is a BLESSING, then you will begin to understand why money matters.
Let me ask you this....If instead of walking two miles last week, you were instead out buying food for 20 poor families using your new Toyota Tundra to deliver it, because you have the money to do so............
Do you see it?
Can you?
Do you see the double blessing.?
OPEN YOUR EYES !!
You get blessed with the Toyota and the financial prosperity, and then you bless others USING IT.
Thats how it works if you will stop trying to chase poverty as spirituality.

I'll post a Thread soon about faith and about prosperity.
Read them.




K