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May I suggest that the problem with these statements is that they are about you....not God. You have made it out that God did all these things for you (and to an extent He did), when God's Word may suggest different. Please bear with my explanation for just a moment: 1. The Promise was not made to you, the promise was made to Abraham's Seed, which is Christ (Galatians 3:14-19). So your second statement was the most accurate one. 2. You are an heir to that promise (Hebrews 6:13-20), but it still has nothing to do with you, it has everything to do with God through Christ....and He keeps His promises. It is impossible for Him to lie. 3. You were born into sin. (Romans 5:12-14) 4. God cannot have fellowship with sin. (Psalm 5:4-6, 2 Corintians 5:21) 5. It then stands to reason....God did not know you until you became an heir of the Promise. He does, of course, desire all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), so he makes His word available to all who wish it....and some who don't so that He can keep His promise.
This can be interesting as a play on words. All things would include everything, including every "you." Yet as you point out, no pun intended, Christ does say that. I would have to say though in context, the key word here is "know." I understand that "know" to be relational or even doctrinal. For example, if Jesus is God, as I believe, then my relationship with Him would be different than say a J.W. or Russellite, who does not accept the divinity of Jesus. Thereby when I seek Him as Abba, it will be different than when a J.W. seeks someone different, and Jesus will be just in His response as to not knowing that J.W.But justaname, did he not say i never knew you, to someone remember ? not all that say Lord Lord !
All things and you, are not the same thing.
Are some people pre selected before they were born ? rubbish.
All have the ability.
Are some saying that some are born less than others. that's just worldly hog wash.
Not really hogwash, if you study John 17 and Romans 9 closely, and consider those of Bible history which God specifically chose to do His Work for the rest of us who are called.
Predestination of God's elect is important to understand, not in the sense that they are any better than any other believer on Christ Jesus. But per God's Purpose involving His Gospel Salvation Plan.
If God's ordaining and predestination was not a Biblical fact, then He would not have directly intervened in the lives of His chosen sent ones, with Saul (Paul) being one of the best examples of that. If we were all chosen like that, then where's the proof of Christ directly intervening in our lives like He did with Saul? And if He did that with Saul (Paul), then why not everyone?
Yes i agree with all that.Not really hogwash, if you study John 17 and Romans 9 closely, and consider those of Bible history which God specifically chose to do His Work for the rest of us who are called.
Predestination of God's elect is important to understand, not in the sense that they are any better than any other believer on Christ Jesus. But per God's Purpose involving His Gospel Salvation Plan.
If God's ordaining and predestination was not a Biblical fact, then He would not have directly intervened in the lives of His chosen sent ones, with Saul (Paul) being one of the best examples of that. If we were all chosen like that, then where's the proof of Christ directly intervening in our lives like He did with Saul? And if He did that with Saul (Paul), then why not everyone?
God knows all things, including those who are heirs of the promise and those who are not. To say God does not know you until, is to say God does not know the end from the beginning.
Did you have an ear ?I can say it in this form. God chose Noah. God chose Abraham. God chose the twelve, and it was written that one of His own would betray Him. (Because God knows the end from the beginning; He is the only Sovereign) God chose Saul who became Paul.
God choses all who come to Him. John 15:16 John 6:44
This world is created by God for God and His purpose. Colossians 1:16 Romans 11:36 John 1:3
Now with that said, I am not God. I will share the gospel. I will plant seeds and water them; God grows what is sown.
Mark 4:26-29 1 Corinthians 3:6
It is only by the work of God that were are saved, every one who is saved.
Matthew 22:14
It does not say many are called but few chose God.
Matthew 13:3-9 Luke 8:4-21
Now did we create ourselves as paths, rocks, among thorns, or good soil? No, God is the Creator of us.
Belief in Jesus Christ is only a decision away, but for some that decision might as well be a galaxy away. I don't know why I have faith like I do, it is not from anything thing I did, God just made me with the faith I have. Can anyone claim any different?
God is omniscient. This should answer everything but...
Now this question comes to mind: if it is true that no one had been created at the time of this foreknowledge, on what basis does GOD before life love some and not the rest?
To suit His purpose and plan. This life is not about us and our plan, it is about Him and His. Romans 8:28
Colossians 1:16 Romans 11:36 John 1:3
God is 100% sovereign, yet He is 100% sovereign in a way that keeps intact 100% of our responsibility.
I completely agree with this. As for the questions and other posts I will get back later.God is 100% sovereign, yet He is 100% sovereign in a way that keeps intact 100% of our responsibility.
Thank you, can you explain how that works please?
Ted
Know (knew) does not mean to know about... Neither does foreknew.
Romans 8:29 - For whom HE did foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son.
From this verse we can see that the predestination of the elect is based on the foreknowledge of GOD. Now everyone admits that in this verse, the word “fore” means before life. Therefore, they think that it also means before creation. I wonder if this is a valid and reasonable link to make?
GOD obviously does not before life know everybody since not everyone will become like Jesus, as per
Revelation 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This means that foreknow must carry the idea of approval. As one commentator stated it, “Whom HE foreknew” is virtually equivalent to “whom HE foreloved”.
Now this question comes to mind: if it is true that no one had been created at the time of this foreknowledge, on what basis does GOD before life love some and not the rest?
The basis can not be, as some have suggested, some merit in the creatures, first because no one exists yet; second, because the ones HE foreloves will be just as defiled in life as any other; and third, because the Scriptures say election is not on the basis of the creature's works or choices in life, but rather on HIS unmerited favour:
Romans 9:11 - For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of GOD according to election might stand, not of works, but of HIM that calleth...
Romans 9:16 - So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of GOD that sheweth mercy.
Therefore, we can surmise that GOD does not before life love some because HE has divined that they will have some merit in their life.
...
Well, since the reason for GOD's foreknowledge being particular can not be found in HIS divination of merit in some creatures and since a reasonable answer has not been put forward for why GOD does it particularly, we are left with but two conclusions.
We must either look for the answer elsewhere, in some area we have not looked before, or we must put the basis of HIS foreknowledge down to unreasonable chance.
This would mean that there is no reason for HIS particular before life love. Whom GOD elects - foreknows is based on eenie, meenie, minie, mo, but how can you put your faith in a GOD like that? How much better to admit that we should start looking in some area we have not looked yet, and since we can not find any of those, why not finally admit that we need a revelation from GOD to give us an infinitely loving answer to this problem?
Now, according to preconception theology, the before life love (foreknowledge) of GOD, viz., HIS pre-life approval of some and rejection of the rest is based on the prior uncoerced choice of the creature and on HIS infinite love, which means that HE will never stop loving anyone who can possibly ever come to glorify HIM.
Therein is the reason why HE loved some before this life and why HE did not love the rest.
Some had chosen to eternally defile themselves by their true free will choice before they came to earth and some had not. Some had decided to never ever fulfil HIS purpose and some were still able to fulfil HIS purpose, some willingly, and others only if HE was infallibly gracious to them. Yes, and He predestined these to be conformed to the image of HIS Son, and HE predestined the other evil ones for the Day of Judgement and established them for the correction of the fallen elect.
Now, I ask you, which doctrine is the more scriptural and reasonable and compatible with the attributes of GOD?
Peace, Ted
Thank you, can you explain how that works please?
Ted