Waquinas, you're against the Death Penalty because some people who committed capital crimes have gone on to great things. So, shouldn't you be against prisons for the same reason. It would have been hard for King David to have done great things if he were locked up in prison for murder, or for anything.Waquinas, you dismiss those killed in prison as either guards or other prisoners. So, you don't care if innocent guards are killed or that prisoners who have done nothing deserving of death are killed? I suppose technically, those who escape from prison or who are released from prison who kill are not behind bars. And, those killers not deterred by our soft justice system have never been behind bars. Bottom line, thousands of people are killed every year, and tens of thousands are brutalized every year because our country uses the Death Penalty so little of the time when it should be used. But, you pretend this isn't true, a lie to make yourself comfortable.Waquinas, you complain about the jury system being involved in Death Penalty cases? Are you also against trials? Thou Shalt not Judge a robber? Are you pleased that murderers and rapists don't subject their victims to trials, thus compounding their crimes. Waquinas, most bizarrely of all, you accuse me of deciding who lives and dies. It is you who decides because you have rejected what God has decided.
Capitol Punishment according to the Bible
- Thread starter SoldierforChrist
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Wow Follower, great post. Also thank you very much for all those verses Swampfox! It surprises me(or should I say it doesn't) that the only two people that are arguing against the capitol punishment(waquina and jules c) are the only two people that have not given one single bible verse in their posts.This dissussion is what the "bible" says about capitol punishment. Not what any individual feels due to society's liberal influence. I greatly apprecitate those people who have backed up their posts with scripture(swampfox, follower, ect...), and it makes the answer to this question quite clear.
Have not accused anyone of anything. Don't be silly.Simply pointing out that the Bible does not support that as civilization evolved the idea that capital punishment be applied as it was in the early OT was meant to be a rule for all time and all places. Again if it were a universal law then we would not have Moses, Paul or King David. You can draw any conclusion you like, but those men were murderers and according to your logic should have been killed. So if you are going to claim it our right, no people here on this post are actually saying we are commanded by God to kill such people, then it follows that those men, Moses, Paul and David should have been killed on sight. I cannot justify drawing those conclusions simply on the basis of rules given to the Israel thousands of years earlier. Can you explain how God gives Moses or David or Paul a pass on this if it is your belief that we are to apply capital punishment to all murderers?
(SoldierforChrist;60404)
Wow Follower, great post. Also thank you very much for all those verses Swampfox! It surprises me(or should I say it doesn't) that the only two people that are arguing against the capitol punishment(waquina and jules c) are the only two people that have not given one single bible verse in their posts.This dissussion is what the "bible" says about capitol punishment. Not what any individual feels due to society's liberal influence. I greatly apprecitate those people who have backed up their posts with scripture(swampfox, follower, ect...), and it makes the answer to this question quite clear.
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill.Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Wow Follower, great post. Also thank you very much for all those verses Swampfox! It surprises me(or should I say it doesn't) that the only two people that are arguing against the capitol punishment(waquina and jules c) are the only two people that have not given one single bible verse in their posts.This dissussion is what the "bible" says about capitol punishment. Not what any individual feels due to society's liberal influence. I greatly apprecitate those people who have backed up their posts with scripture(swampfox, follower, ect...), and it makes the answer to this question quite clear.
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
(waquinas;60409)
Have not accused anyone of anything. Don't be silly.Simply pointing out that the Bible does not support that as civilization evolved the idea that capital punishment be applied as it was in the early OT was meant to be a rule for all time and all places. Again if it were a universal law then we would not have Moses, Paul or King David. You can draw any conclusion you like, but those men were murderers and according to your logic should have been killed. So if you are going to claim it our right, no people here on this post are actually saying we are commanded by God to kill such people, then it follows that those men, Moses, Paul and David should have been killed on sight. I cannot justify drawing those conclusions simply on the basis of rules given to the Israel thousands of years earlier. Can you explain how God gives Moses or David or Paul a pass on this if it is your belief that we are to apply capital punishment to all murderers?
First of all, the Bible states all through it the God does not change. He doesn't change his morals or beliefs as civilization progresses as you say. He still feels the same about murder as he did when he created the world. As to the three men that you are reffering to, God simply showed mercy. However, he did not show mercy to the thousands that were put to death for the same exact crimes. So, you are going to overlook all the thousands that were executeed using capitol punishment just because he showed mercy on 3? God has his reasons for everything he does, and if he chooses to show mercy on 3 men because he has a greater plan for them, then he has the right to do so. Thank God he showed mercy on us when we deserved death!Here is the simple fact: God has stated how he views Capitol Punishment all through the Bible, and just because he made an exeption for a 3 men in all of history, does not constitue us throwing away his laws and views on thbe matter. If he wants to show mercy on someone in our society now, then he will do so by somehow making events happen that lead to them not getting executed. However, we are to follow his rules as well as we can. If God wants to intervene and let one live, then I assure you he is capable of doing so.
Have not accused anyone of anything. Don't be silly.Simply pointing out that the Bible does not support that as civilization evolved the idea that capital punishment be applied as it was in the early OT was meant to be a rule for all time and all places. Again if it were a universal law then we would not have Moses, Paul or King David. You can draw any conclusion you like, but those men were murderers and according to your logic should have been killed. So if you are going to claim it our right, no people here on this post are actually saying we are commanded by God to kill such people, then it follows that those men, Moses, Paul and David should have been killed on sight. I cannot justify drawing those conclusions simply on the basis of rules given to the Israel thousands of years earlier. Can you explain how God gives Moses or David or Paul a pass on this if it is your belief that we are to apply capital punishment to all murderers?
First of all, the Bible states all through it the God does not change. He doesn't change his morals or beliefs as civilization progresses as you say. He still feels the same about murder as he did when he created the world. As to the three men that you are reffering to, God simply showed mercy. However, he did not show mercy to the thousands that were put to death for the same exact crimes. So, you are going to overlook all the thousands that were executeed using capitol punishment just because he showed mercy on 3? God has his reasons for everything he does, and if he chooses to show mercy on 3 men because he has a greater plan for them, then he has the right to do so. Thank God he showed mercy on us when we deserved death!Here is the simple fact: God has stated how he views Capitol Punishment all through the Bible, and just because he made an exeption for a 3 men in all of history, does not constitue us throwing away his laws and views on thbe matter. If he wants to show mercy on someone in our society now, then he will do so by somehow making events happen that lead to them not getting executed. However, we are to follow his rules as well as we can. If God wants to intervene and let one live, then I assure you he is capable of doing so.
(Jordan;60411)
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill.Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.
(SoldierforChrist;60412)
First of all, the Bible states all through it the God does not change. He doesn't change his morals or beliefs as civilization progresses as you say. He still feels the same about murder as he did when he created the world. As to the three men that you are reffering to, God simply showed mercy. However, he did not show mercy to the thousands that were put to death for the same exact crimes. So, you are going to overlook all the thousands that were executeed using capitol punishment just because he showed mercy on 3? God has his reasons for everything he does, and if he chooses to show mercy on 3 men because he has a greater plan for them, then he has the right to do so. Thank God he showed mercy on us when we deserved death!Here is the simple fact: God has stated how he views Capitol Punishment all through the Bible, and just because he made an exeption for a 3 men in all of history, does not constitue us throwing away his laws and views on thbe matter. If he wants to show mercy on someone in our society now, then he will do so by somehow making events happen that lead to them not getting executed. However, we are to follow his rules as well as we can. If God wants to intervene and let one live, then I assure you he is capable of doing so.
And this explains why there is no condemnation of the murderer Saul in the NT????????????? You are saying he lived because of God's Mercy (which is true in any case) yet there is no explanation given to us or even casual mention of why Paul was not immediately killed by "good" Christians following the Law you claim still binds us in that regard. Not even an owe by the way we did not kill Paul because ........................
First of all, the Bible states all through it the God does not change. He doesn't change his morals or beliefs as civilization progresses as you say. He still feels the same about murder as he did when he created the world. As to the three men that you are reffering to, God simply showed mercy. However, he did not show mercy to the thousands that were put to death for the same exact crimes. So, you are going to overlook all the thousands that were executeed using capitol punishment just because he showed mercy on 3? God has his reasons for everything he does, and if he chooses to show mercy on 3 men because he has a greater plan for them, then he has the right to do so. Thank God he showed mercy on us when we deserved death!Here is the simple fact: God has stated how he views Capitol Punishment all through the Bible, and just because he made an exeption for a 3 men in all of history, does not constitue us throwing away his laws and views on thbe matter. If he wants to show mercy on someone in our society now, then he will do so by somehow making events happen that lead to them not getting executed. However, we are to follow his rules as well as we can. If God wants to intervene and let one live, then I assure you he is capable of doing so.
And this explains why there is no condemnation of the murderer Saul in the NT????????????? You are saying he lived because of God's Mercy (which is true in any case) yet there is no explanation given to us or even casual mention of why Paul was not immediately killed by "good" Christians following the Law you claim still binds us in that regard. Not even an owe by the way we did not kill Paul because ........................
(SoldierforChrist;60413)
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.
There is a difference between saying there are justifications for killing another human (which I believe) and saying God commands us to kill criminals.
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.
There is a difference between saying there are justifications for killing another human (which I believe) and saying God commands us to kill criminals.
(SoldierforChrist;60404)
Wow Follower, great post. Also thank you very much for all those verses Swampfox! It surprises me(or should I say it doesn't) that the only two people that are arguing against the capitol punishment(waquina and jules c) are the only two people that have not given one single bible verse in their posts.This dissussion is what the "bible" says about capitol punishment. Not what any individual feels due to society's liberal influence. I greatly apprecitate those people who have backed up their posts with scripture(swampfox, follower, ect...), and it makes the answer to this question quite clear.
Actually it is about what someone told you the Bible says. And last time I checked Moses, David and Paul are murderers, and that is in the Bible. I did not think you would need a Bible reference to know that, perhaps I was wrong.As no one has given an adequate reason why Moses, Paul or David lived beyond a crime that "the Law" demands death for, then it does not follow that the Bible commands us to kill all such people today.
Wow Follower, great post. Also thank you very much for all those verses Swampfox! It surprises me(or should I say it doesn't) that the only two people that are arguing against the capitol punishment(waquina and jules c) are the only two people that have not given one single bible verse in their posts.This dissussion is what the "bible" says about capitol punishment. Not what any individual feels due to society's liberal influence. I greatly apprecitate those people who have backed up their posts with scripture(swampfox, follower, ect...), and it makes the answer to this question quite clear.
Actually it is about what someone told you the Bible says. And last time I checked Moses, David and Paul are murderers, and that is in the Bible. I did not think you would need a Bible reference to know that, perhaps I was wrong.As no one has given an adequate reason why Moses, Paul or David lived beyond a crime that "the Law" demands death for, then it does not follow that the Bible commands us to kill all such people today.
Waquinas, the only thing you are basing your whole argument off of is the simple fact that God granted mercy to a few people. Can you not see how shallow your argument is. You are not addressing the fact that it is God's view on the matter, but simply jumping to a little side proof that since God granted mercy to three people we should abandon what he has outlines as justifiable punishment.Also, God does not owe us a reason or excuse as to why he let Paul live. He did, and that is all that matters. You nor I "deserve" an explanation. The Bible does say that what he did he did in ignorance though. He thought that he was doing the work on the Lord, and he was zealous and did it with his whole heart until he found out that he was wrong, and then he changed his ways and gave himself to God's work with the same zealousy.That is not the reasoln I am giving, I am simply saying that that could possibly be one of the reasons. However God did not give us an exp[lanation for his actions.
(SoldierforChrist;60413)
(Jordan;60411)
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill.Ecclesiastes 3:3 - A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.I know, I just wanted to quote a few scriptures to help. By the way, on my earlier post I made on here... I was trying to point out that we no longer give out Death Penalty for lying, blasphemy, adultery, idolatry, witchcraft, homosexuality etc... But I do understand Death Penalty is needed for premeditate murder though...which I agree with.
(Jordan;60411)
Likewise...we agree, once again. I'll bring up a couple or few more verses.
I have already pointed out the differnece between justified killing, and innocent killing or murder. God commanded the israelite all through the Bible to kill off entire nations of unbelieving God-haters. Was that wrong? No of course not. God has certain cituations where capitol punishment is required, and under those circumstances it is just to put the guilty to death. You see that all through the entire Bible. You have to be blind not to see it.I know, I just wanted to quote a few scriptures to help. By the way, on my earlier post I made on here... I was trying to point out that we no longer give out Death Penalty for lying, blasphemy, adultery, idolatry, witchcraft, homosexuality etc... But I do understand Death Penalty is needed for premeditate murder though...which I agree with.
(SoldierforChrist;60420)
Waquinas, the only thing you are basing your whole argument off of is the simple fact that God granted mercy to a few people. Can you not see how shallow your argument is. You are not addressing the fact that it is God's view on the matter, but simply jumping to a little side proof that since God granted mercy to three people we should abandon what he has outlines as justifiable punishment.Also, God does not owe us a reason or excuse as to why he let Paul live. He did, and that is all that matters. You nor I "deserve" an explanation. The Bible does say that what he did he did in ignorance though. He thought that he was doing the work on the Lord, and he was zealous and did it with his whole heart until he found out that he was wrong, and then he changed his ways and gave himself to God's work with the same zealousy.That is not the reasoln I am giving, I am simply saying that that could possibly be one of the reasons. However God did not give us an exp[lanation for his actions.
But you are changing this debate. I was not restricting or saying what God should or should not do. It was about what you say He commands us to do. According to you good and faithful people of their day should have stoned Moses, David and Paul. What I am saying is that did not happen and we are not told why it did not happen, which is relevant given you seem to think God commanded all Christians to do this.Just a couple of cases????? How about this one?Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.Is the Bible not COMMANDING Christians to stone adulterers? (capital punishment)? Wasn't that the position being posed by the mob to Jesus? (yes they wished to trick him) Why didn't Jesus throw the first stone?
Waquinas, the only thing you are basing your whole argument off of is the simple fact that God granted mercy to a few people. Can you not see how shallow your argument is. You are not addressing the fact that it is God's view on the matter, but simply jumping to a little side proof that since God granted mercy to three people we should abandon what he has outlines as justifiable punishment.Also, God does not owe us a reason or excuse as to why he let Paul live. He did, and that is all that matters. You nor I "deserve" an explanation. The Bible does say that what he did he did in ignorance though. He thought that he was doing the work on the Lord, and he was zealous and did it with his whole heart until he found out that he was wrong, and then he changed his ways and gave himself to God's work with the same zealousy.That is not the reasoln I am giving, I am simply saying that that could possibly be one of the reasons. However God did not give us an exp[lanation for his actions.
But you are changing this debate. I was not restricting or saying what God should or should not do. It was about what you say He commands us to do. According to you good and faithful people of their day should have stoned Moses, David and Paul. What I am saying is that did not happen and we are not told why it did not happen, which is relevant given you seem to think God commanded all Christians to do this.Just a couple of cases????? How about this one?Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.Is the Bible not COMMANDING Christians to stone adulterers? (capital punishment)? Wasn't that the position being posed by the mob to Jesus? (yes they wished to trick him) Why didn't Jesus throw the first stone?
And while we are at it why not nuke San Francisco?Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Or mow down the heathens not in Church on Sunday!!!!Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
And this would put an end to all the crazy lawsuits in our country- just kill the people responsible for any product or service that causes the death of another! Actually I could agree with also killing the lawyers representing both parties as well for good measure.Exd 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.Hey kill the drunk drivers causing death as well - problem solved.
We could solve over populations issues as well.Exd 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Revenge killing would also be justified as long as the person was not in a revenge free zone (where would that be - Disney Land perhaps).Num 35:27 And the revenger of blood find him without the borders of the city of his refuge, and the revenger of blood kill the slayer; he shall not be guilty of blood:You know I suspect the people here claiming that God commands us to kill criminals in jail would change their tune somewhat if we handed them the guns to do it.
It commands us to kill one who has murdered another in a premeditated (planed act) kill is a relative term are we to kill someone who accidentally kills someone, No, are we to kill someone who has killed in War, self defense, ect ..No, we are to kill one who has intentionally by pre meditation set out to kill another. Like it or not thats what the Bible says.To re quote Swapfox here Genesis 9:6Who so sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
(Christina;60431)
It commands us to kill one who has murdered another in a premeditated (planed act) kill is a relative term are we to kill someone who accidentally kills someone, No, are we to kill someone who has killed in War, self defense, ect ..No, we are to kill one who has intentionally by pre meditation set out to kill another. Like it or not thats what the Bible says.To re quote Swapfox here Genesis 9:6Who so sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Great post Christina. Definately that's what the bible says.
It commands us to kill one who has murdered another in a premeditated (planed act) kill is a relative term are we to kill someone who accidentally kills someone, No, are we to kill someone who has killed in War, self defense, ect ..No, we are to kill one who has intentionally by pre meditation set out to kill another. Like it or not thats what the Bible says.To re quote Swapfox here Genesis 9:6Who so sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Great post Christina. Definately that's what the bible says.
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Eyes to see my brother. Who pronounced this judgment?
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Eyes to see. Does it say put them to death or that they will be put to death?Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And this would put an end to all the crazy lawsuits in our country- just kill the people responsible for any product or service that causes the death of another! Actually I could agree with also killing the lawyers representing both parties as well for good measure.
The old straw man argument. I missed that verse.
Did you just skip over the premeditated part or do you just not address what you cannot defend?
You know I suspect the people here claiming that God commands us to kill criminals in jail would change their tune somewhat if we handed them the guns to do it.
And if you actually read/posted that verse in context, you'd understand what the revenger of blood is.
Eyes to see my brother. Who pronounced this judgment?
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Eyes to see. Does it say put them to death or that they will be put to death?Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And this would put an end to all the crazy lawsuits in our country- just kill the people responsible for any product or service that causes the death of another! Actually I could agree with also killing the lawyers representing both parties as well for good measure.
The old straw man argument. I missed that verse.
You know I suspect the people here claiming that God commands us to kill criminals in jail would change their tune somewhat if we handed them the guns to do it.
And if you actually read/posted that verse in context, you'd understand what the revenger of blood is.
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