Capitol Punishment according to the Bible

[SoldierforChrist]

(Jordan;60422)
I know, I just wanted to quote a few scriptures to help. By the way, on my earlier post I made on here... I was trying to point out that we no longer give out Death Penalty for lying, blasphemy, adultery, idolatry, witchcraft, homosexuality etc... But I do understand Death Penalty is needed for premeditate murder though...which I agree with.

Oh ok Jordan. I am sorry, sometimes I read things the wrong way when I am disscussing stuff with alot of people. It is hard to read certain things when yoiu have no body language to go off of, and you don't know if the person is agreeing or disagreeing. My bad for arguing with you when you were agreeing.

Yeah, I agree that there were many more crimes that were punishable by death under the law, but I am glad that it is not that way anymore. However I do believe(as you stated) that certain crimes are definetly in need of capitol punishment as part of the justice system. I know that it is a hard line to find sometimes, but never-the-less, it is needed.

 

[SoldierforChrist]

(waquinas;60425)
And while we are at it why not nuke San Francisco?Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Not a bad idea....

JK!Good post Cristina and Swamp Fox, that is the point I am trying to make.

 

[Jules C]

I've read your comments about my Christian life on the other post, and your comments on this thread...I can really tell you are a teenager, Soldier.

 

[waquinas]

And if you actually read/posted that verse in context, you'd understand what the revenger of blood is.

Again, when you have no response attack the person not the idea. The point would be relatives of murder victims should be allowed open season on the perp. Where is the scripture reference that says we should not allow this today? Or are you saying that would be ok with you as well???

 

[waquinas]

(Christina;60431)
It commands us to kill one who has murdered another in a premeditated (planed act) kill is a relative term are we to kill someone who accidentally kills someone, No, are we to kill someone who has killed in War, self defense, ect ..No, we are to kill one who has intentionally by pre meditation set out to kill another. Like it or not thats what the Bible says.To re quote Swapfox here Genesis 9:6Who so sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
My point is that "THE LAW" commands us to do many things we do not do today. Why single out this one thing and claim it binds us to act and not all these others? Where is the scripture reference that says this one command sticks and we are relieved from all others?

 

[waquinas]

BTW, and again I do believe killing another is justified in certain situations, (soldier, self-defense, defense of another,.....etc) also to include criminals but that later group would be a special circumstance. It would apply to people so horrible with a risk if they are allowed to live of them being able to commit great harm to society. Already mentioned Saddam as an example, Hitler I think would be another. Also advocate being well armed, which as already pointed out would naturally reduce the numbers of such people ending up behind bars.Societies issues and the problems with our justice and penal system are separate issues. Our morality should not change dependent on societal pressures. Just because the justice and penal system are flawed should not change the way we treat a fellow human. Which is why I suggest many (hopefully some) here would probably change their tune if it was their job to take these guys out in prison. Also suspect not a few would change their view if it was them or their loved one sitting on death row. Such positions often sound noble until one gets your hands dirty.Are we going to promote euthanasia because the elderly are becoming a burden and we can no longer afford to support the cost of their ever increasing longevity? God forbid.

 

[HammerStone]

Cute, when you have nothing to respond attack the person. Actually I must have skipped over the part where you guys showed scripture claiming relief from all these other parts of "THE LAW" and that only the death penalty now applies. I was scoffed at for no reference even though my post referenced what should be common Bible knowledge (except for maybe this thread). Now I give references and all you can do is attack me???????????? Where is your scripture referencec claiming relief from every other part of "THE LAW" except the one someone tells you we still must keep absolutely.
I very clearly outlined Matthew 5 (even though I argue one should read it and understand that all these laws have not evaporated).Again, you ignored the several references where I directly replied to your Scripture postings to post this little comment. It's the same old story, the same old red herring when someone doesn't agree with what you believe because it doesn't fit what you want to believe. I'm simply telling you that as a Christian we believe what God wants us to believe and it's not all that different from logic.Like it or not, God called for the killing of children in the OT. He called for the slaughter of entire groups of people - man, woman, and child. He did this for a reason because he alone is fit to pronounce judgment. If you've seen the Father, you've seen the Son. These are not my words.I grow very, very tired of this liberal idea that God has changed when he's explicitly said through his prophets and apostles that he doesn't change. It's not religion as we go and religion as we like it and I will continually rail against that sort of nonsense.Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Again, when you have no response attack the person not the idea. The point would be relatives of murder victims should be allowed open season on the perp. Where is the scripture reference that says we should not allow this today? Or are you saying that would be ok with you as well???
Right, but your statement goes off on a tirade about all of us handling guns and play vigilante justice as all of us terrible Christian go personally execute those who have committed murder. Obviously a complete fallacy meant to demonize our beliefs and lead away from the point. Clearly, we have the laws of man, which Christ himself tells us to follow. (Render unto Ceasar... and the I Peter reference). Therefore, it's quite easy to say that the revenger is fully open to pursue legal means of capital punishment.Matthew 22:21
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
I Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

 

[waquinas]

(Swamp Fox;60482)
I very clearly outlined Matthew 5 (even though I argue one should read it and understand that all these laws have not evaporated).Again, you ignored the several references where I directly replied to your Scripture postings to post this little comment. It's the same old story, the same old red herring when someone doesn't agree with what you believe because it doesn't fit what you want to believe. I'm simply telling you that as a Christian we believe what God wants us to believe and it's not all that different from logic.Like it or not, God called for the killing of children in the OT. He called for the slaughter of entire groups of people - man, woman, and child. He did this for a reason because he alone is fit to pronounce judgment. If you've seen the Father, you've seen the Son. These are not my words.I grow very, very tired of this liberal idea that God has changed when he's explicitly said through his prophets and apostles that he doesn't change. It's not religion as we go and religion as we like it and I will continually rail against that sort of nonsense.Hebrews 13:8Right, but your statement goes off on a tirade about all of us handling guns and play vigilante justice as all of us terrible Christian go personally execute those who have committed murder. Obviously a complete fallacy meant to demonize our beliefs and lead away from the point. Clearly, we have the laws of man, which Christ himself tells us to follow. (Render unto Ceasar... and the I Peter reference). Therefore, it's quite easy to say that the revenger is fully open to pursue legal means of capital punishment.Matthew 22:21I Peter 2:13
An a Christian myself and resent your implication otherwise. Again try stop attacking the person and defend your position. I clearly posted exactly what the Bible says, yet you ignore that we do not kill babies today, we do not kill people that cause (even indirectly) the death of another, we do not kill adulterers, we do not kill people who work on Sundays, we do not kill people that blaspheme God, we do not kill homosexuals and neither did Jesus or the Christians of His day or those of the first century. Show a single NT quote defending capital punishment for any crime (I guess there is one example you might cite but just try it).The issue here is not whether the Bible mentions capital punishment and directs the Children of Israel to do it. Of course He did, I quoted many such commands. The question is what does it mean to us and how does it apply to us today.Your position focuses on a single aspect of the Law, premeditated murder. Yet there is a whole host of other crimes which mandated capital punishment. If your position is murderers should be executed because it is in God's Word, then you must answer why all these other crimes do not also deserve capital punishment today (or in Christ or the Apostles day for that matter). Where is the scripture that releases you from following those commands except for this one? What tells you death is not appropriate for the adulterer today? What tells you it was ok for Christians not to have stoned Paul? Were they not obligated then as you claim we are now?

 

[HammerStone]

An a Christian myself and resent your implication otherwise. Again try stop attacking the person and defend your position.
Give me a break. Quit trying to make this thread something it is not. Get over yourself.
I clearly posted exactly what the Bible says, yet you ignore that we do not kill babies today, we do not kill people that cause (even indirectly) the death of another, we do not kill adulterers, we do not kill people who work on Sundays, we do not kill people that blaspheme God, we do not kill homosexuals and neither did Jesus or the Christians of His day or those of the first century.Show a single NT quote defending capital punishment for any crime (I guess there is one example you might cite but just try it).
And my earlier point stands proven. I've already done this, quite clearly. I don't see a need nor reason to return to it. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me...But I guess those don't stand anymore either, as long as you love God right, you can do whatever you want? Hey, you're free to think that way! Go for it!
Your position focuses on a single aspect of the Law, premeditated murder. Yet there is a whole host of other crimes which mandated capital punishment. If your position is murderers should be executed because it is in God's Word, then you must answer why all these other crimes do not also deserve capital punishment today (or in Christ or the Apostles day for that matter).

And what, pray tell, is the topic of this thread?

 

[waquinas]

The topic of the thread is that the Bible contains scripture that some here claim mandate capital punishment today. You did not explain why 1st century Christians did not practice capital punishment. You did not explain why it would have been wrong for the people to stone that adulterous woman. You did not explain why Christians did not stone Paul to death for his participation in premeditated murder. You did not offer a single NT example of or supporting text for capital punishment. You did not give a single scripture releasing us from the same obligation of the Law for other crimes as you claim we have towards murderers. If you do not have an answer or do not know why then just say so.The only scripture anyone holding that position wants to defend are references to death for premeditated murder and perhaps homosexuality.Unanswered is why all the other commands for capital punishment in God's Word are no longer mandates for us.If one wants that level of justice, you could argue that some Islamic countries are trying to uphold that Law today. Why wouldn't their concepts of justice be closer to the Law than our just killing murderers.

 

[Jordan]

(waquinas;60499)
The topic of the thread is that the Bible contains scripture that some here claim mandate capital punishment today. You did not explain why 1st century Christians did not practice capital punishment. You did not explain why it would have been wrong for the people to stone that adulterous woman. You did not explain why Christians did not stone Paul to death for his participation in premeditated murder. You did not offer a single NT example of or supporting text for capital punishment. You did not give a single scripture releasing us from the same obligation of the Law for other crimes as you claim we have towards murderers. If you do not have an answer or do not know why then just say so.The only scripture anyone holding that position wants to defend are references to death for premeditated murder and perhaps homosexuality.Unanswered is why all the other commands for capital punishment in God's Word are no longer mandates for us.If one wants that level of justice, you could argue that some Islamic countries are trying to uphold that Law today. Why wouldn't their concepts of justice be closer to the Law than our just killing murderers.
Excuse me, Paul did not premediated murder anyone at all. Yes he murder Christians, but he did that out of his IGNORANCE.

 

[SoldierforChrist]

(Jordan;60500)
Excuse me, Paul did not premediated murder anyone at all. Yes he murder Christians, but he did that out of his IGNORANCE.
Exactly Jordan, and that is what I stated in my post earlier.Also, is it just me or does it seem to you that when they run out of arguments they try to make everything personal?

 

[Jordan]

(SoldierforChrist;60510)
(Jordan;60500)
Excuse me, Paul did not premediated murder anyone at all. Yes he murder Christians, but he did that out of his IGNORANCE.
Exactly Jordan, and that is what I stated in my post earlier.Also, is it just me or does it seem to you that when they run out of arguments they try to make everything personal?I agree, it not just you. I run out of arguments from time to time, but I still come up with answers, it fact, My answers are scriptures.

 

[HammerStone]

If one wants that level of justice, you could argue that some Islamic countries are trying to uphold that Law today. Why wouldn't their concepts of justice be closer to the Law than our just killing murderers.
Because allah is not YHVH, of course.

 

[waquinas]

(SoldierforChrist;60510)
Exactly Jordan, and that is what I stated in my post earlier.Also, is it just me or does it seem to you that when they run out of arguments they try to make everything personal?
R u guys kidding??????If I am ignorant then murder is ok! What world are you living in?

 

[waquinas]

(Swamp Fox;60521)
Because allah is not YHVH, of course.
But their code of justice today is still closer to the full text of 'the Law" in scripture than what you support. Again, why is that not better? If you are saying God commands us to kill murderers because that is in scripture, then what is wrong with the current justice in some Islamic countries upholding other parts of "the Law"?

 

[bullfighter]

(SoldierforChrist;59978)
Ok, I have been disscussing this topic with several people in my Criminal Justice class who are christians, and a few of them have different views. The question is:I personally believe it is right. I believe if someone takes a life, then their life should be taken. I find that all through the Bible, and that seems to be God's view on it as well. What do some of you think, and what verses do you have for that?
if christ threw his death did not till you that ,then killing could be justified in many forms from place to place..we are to be killed with a smile on our face,and not kill,let the devil kill if god wants to save you he will ,then the devil will loose in the end...fight to stay alive but to kill to stay alive?

 

[SoldierforChrist]

(bullfighter;60537)
if christ threw his death did not till you that ,then killing could be justified in many forms from place to place..we are to be killed with a smile on our face,and not kill,let the devil kill if god wants to save you he will ,then the devil will loose in the end...fight to stay alive but to kill to stay alive?
I have no clue what this means... What are you trying to say? Your post is very confusing to me...