CATHOLIC BASHING THREAD TITLES

[Taken]

That's funny - because MY Bible says that those in Christ are BEING saved abd BEING made perfect.
2 Cor. 2:15
For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are BEING saved and those who are perishing.

Heb. 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

CONTEXT, my arrogant friend - context.
Arrogance won't get you to heaven - only faith WORKING through love (Gal. 5:6) . . .

Addressed this multiple times....cannot understand it for you.

 

[Taken]

No - "WHY" certainly IS a mystery.

WHY haven't you been able to address those nine passages of Scripture in CONTEXT - that destroy your OSAS position? The "WHY" is everything . . .

Already did, so have others.

Scripture does not destroy the Lord is forever WITH a Converted man.
Nor does Scripture teach men ARE Converted multiple times.

 

[Taken]

They changed the meaning of the word "are being saved" to "instantly" saved. OSAS denies the biblical process of justification.

No it does not...ONCE already NOTIFIES what is required to become Converted is accomplished.

 

[Taken]

You have explicitly denied a changed heart could fail to preserve...contrary to scripture.

Explicitly?

Then it should be no problem for you to explicitly quote me saying what you just said.

Could you also provide your explicit understanding of what a changed heart means?

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Sure.

In Rev. 11:19, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven. We KNOW that it is not the OLD Ark because it's not made of wood and gold. Besides - the OLD Ark was just a shadow of what was to come.

Now - chapter and verse were NOT added to Scripture until the Catholic Church did so in the Middle Ages. EVERY Book was written as one long letter. In the very next verse (Rev. 12:1), we see that the Ark in Heaven is a WOMAN who gives birth to the Savior. Last time I checked - that Woman was MARY.

The "Woman" of Rev. 12:1 is the ONLY person in Heaven in the entire Book of Revelation described as having a full Body - head to toe. She is in Heaven - BODY and soul.

Here are some Scriptural examples of how Mary fulfills the OT type that was the Ark:

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

As for the infallibility of the Pope - Jesus gives Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18).
He tells Peter that WHATEVER he ordains on earth will ALSO be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:19).
At the Last Supper - Jesus assures the leaders of His Church (NOT the crowds) that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

There - you can ALL see the words straight from the Bible . . .

BODILY ASSUMPTION...

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...ntiae-raiders-of-the-ark-of-gods-glory.26207/

Answer Linked

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Sure.

In Rev. 11:19, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven. We KNOW that it is not the OLD Ark because it's not made of wood and gold. Besides - the OLD Ark was just a shadow of what was to come.

Now - chapter and verse were NOT added to Scripture until the Catholic Church did so in the Middle Ages. EVERY Book was written as one long letter. In the very next verse (Rev. 12:1), we see that the Ark in Heaven is a WOMAN who gives birth to the Savior. Last time I checked - that Woman was MARY.

The "Woman" of Rev. 12:1 is the ONLY person in Heaven in the entire Book of Revelation described as having a full Body - head to toe. She is in Heaven - BODY and soul.

Here are some Scriptural examples of how Mary fulfills the OT type that was the Ark:

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) Mary carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

As for the infallibility of the Pope - Jesus gives Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven (Matt. 16:18).
He tells Peter that WHATEVER he ordains on earth will ALSO be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:19).
At the Last Supper - Jesus assures the leaders of His Church (NOT the crowds) that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

There - you can ALL see the words straight from the Bible . . .

Grateful to you for articles like this, it uncompromisingly exposes the Abomination of the Roman Catholic Desolation as well as the Desolation of the Roman Catholic Abomination, not to mention the most blasphemous bull of all, Quote '~ALL straight from the Bible~'.

Who could have thought the church of the two commandments would get so haughty? Actually it all the while has been the inevitable.

Do not underestimate the intelligence and alertness of the paltry Protestants.

 

[epostle]

I would not be to quick to cry victory epostle..

Now we have gotten down to the tense of verbs as prima facia evidence that salvation cannot be assured on earth.

If that is the measure of your truth, then you might want to know that there is about a 60/40 ratio of Bible versions that say, ‘is/are saved’ present-past tense versus ‘being saved’ present-future tense in 2 Corinth 2:15. In fact the official Catholic Douay Rheims Bibles says, ‘are saved.’

(2Co 2:12) And when I was come to Troas for the gospel of Christ and a door was opened unto me in the Lord,
(2Co 2:13) I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but bidding them farewell, I went into Macedonia.
(2Co 2:14) Now thanks be to God, who always maketh us to triumph in Christ Jesus and manifesteth the odour of his knowledge by us in every place.
(2Co 2:15) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved and in them that perish.
(2Co 2:16) To the one indeed the odour of death unto death: but to the others the odour of life unto life. And for these things who is so sufficient?
(2Co 2:17) For we are not as many, adulterating the word of God: but with sincerity: but as from God, before God, in Christ we speak. (ALL DRB)

Now the context in which the verse is embedded is important.

The context:

Paul says we who are saved do not need to be a specific place and time to know we have God’s knowledge to spread his word of salvation. Even under depressed and awkward times and places we are still victorious as a Roman leader’s triumph and his welcome party back home.

We are winning ministers of God anywhere we go. We carry the message of God ourselves and we receive a ticker tape parade (as a sweet odor) amongst other believers and even unbelievers. We are winners and our message uplifts both the saved and those that are still in chains and lost (as the slave in Rome).

Bless you,

APAK[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that

• I Have Been Saved (past event)
• I Am Being Saved (present event)
• I Will Be Saved (future event)

I am a bit uneasy with the dichotomous believers and unbelievers, or "us v.s. them". It's not our job to tell God how to apply His perfect justice and mercy with our imperfect understanding. But we will all know who is saved after we are dead, and not before.

 

[epostle]

Grateful to you for articles like this, it uncompromisingly exposes the Abomination of the Roman Catholic Desolation as well as the Desolation of the Roman Catholic Abomination, not to mention the most blasphemous bull of all, Quote '~ALL straight from the Bible~'.

Who could have thought the church of the two commandments would get so haughty? Actually it all the while has been the inevitable.

Do not underestimate the intelligence and alertness of the paltry Protestants.

Go preach your gospel of hate someplace else.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Go preach your gospel of hate someplace else.

Hear who speaks!

 

[epostle]

Explicitly?

Then it should be no problem for you to explicitly quote me saying what you just said.

Could you also provide your explicit understanding of what a changed heart means?

I made a mistake. I apologize. Let me re-phrase:

You have denied a changed heart could fail to persevere...contrary to scripture.

We have moral certitude of our salvation, but there is nothing in scripture that says our certainty is infallible. Certainty or assurance of salvation is 100% infallible after we are dead, purified and with God. Not before. There are some who die in a perfect state of sanctifying grace and go straight to heaven, that is not me. I will need to take a shower before entering heaven because I stink. Cleaning up with eternal flames is harsh and I don't deserve it. The dichotomous "turn or burn" mentality in Protestantism is problematic. It has trouble reconciling that with God's mercy and justice.

Proof texting is a waste of time with you because you change the meaning of key words in the Bible. Maybe it's because you HAVE TO be right. You are more a polemicist than a serious student of Scripture. Discerning all your fallacies, evasions and slippery tactics is not worth the effort.

 

[epostle]

Hear who speaks!

TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY, CONSECRATED PERSONS AND THE LAY FAITHFUL
ON THE PROCLAMATION OF THE GOSPEL
IN TODAY’S WORLD
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html

APOSTOLISCHES SCHREIBEN
EVANGELII GAUDIUM
DES HEILIGEN VATERS
PAPST FRANZISKUS
AN DIE BISCHÖFE
AN DIE PRIESTER UND DIAKONE,
AN DIE PERSONEN GEWEIHTEN LEBENS
UND AN DIE CHRISTGLÄUBIGEN LAIEN
ÜBER DIE VERKÜNDIGUNG DES EVANGELIUMS
IN DER WELT VON HEUTE
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html

You have no excuse. If you are going to demonize Catholicism, demonize what is really taught. You ingest stupid lies like a junkie shoots up heroine. I've spoon fed you before, but you spit it out like an infant does with his pablum. Will you harden your heart and come with the same venom next week?

 

[Taken]

I made a mistake. I apologize. Let me re-phrase:

You have denied a changed heart could fail to persevere...contrary to scripture.

We have moral certitude of our salvation, but there is nothing in scripture that says our certainty is infallible. Certainty or assurance of salvation is 100% infallible after we are dead, purified and with God. Not before. There are some who die in a perfect state of sanctifying grace and go straight to heaven, that is not me. I will need to take a shower before entering heaven because I stink. Cleaning up with eternal flames is harsh and I don't deserve it. The dichotomous "turn or burn" mentality in Protestantism is problematic. It has trouble reconciling that with God's mercy and justice.

Proof texting is a waste of time with you because you change the meaning of key words in the Bible.

You used the words "changed heart".
I asked what that specifically meant to YOU.
You did not answer.

Now you say "we have a moral certitude" obligation. It appears somewhere between physical death and being raise up, you have some kind of space of time to get satisfactory what you did not accomplish while physically living.

If you can not say what YOU mean by you own words no point in discussing with you.
I can not look your words up in Scripture...
They do not appear. I have no desire to guess what YOU mean, thus it would be Ghost debate.

Maybe it's because you HAVE TO be right.

More precisely The Lord is Right, and it is His Understanding of HIS Words I trust ARE paramount.

You using YOU words that You make No connection to His Words is simply gibberish to my ears.

You are more a polemicist than a serious student of Scripture. Discerning all your fallacies, evasions and slippery tactics is not worth the effort.

You simply make judgements against me, as if, you have no obligation to reveal my own words to EVIDENCE your judgements.

You don't Ask, You judge.
You don't Answer when Asked, You lecture.

What do You mean by a changed Heart?
What do You mean by a moral certitude?

Are those Catholicity code words?
And HOW and WHEN are those things accomplished?

If you do not know what your own words mean or how they relate to the Lords Words...
It is MOOT to bother having a discussion with you.

 

[APAK]

I would not be to quick to cry victory epostle..

Now we have gotten down to the tense of verbs as prima facia evidence that salvation cannot be assured on earth.

If that is the measure of your truth, then you might want to know that there is about a 60/40 ratio of Bible versions that say, ‘is/are saved’ present-past tense versus ‘being saved’ present-future tense in 2 Corinth 2:15. In fact the official Catholic Douay Rheims Bibles says, ‘are saved.’

(2Co 2:12) And when I was come to Troas for the gospel of Christ and a door was opened unto me in the Lord,
(2Co 2:13) I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but bidding them farewell, I went into Macedonia.
(2Co 2:14) Now thanks be to God, who always maketh us to triumph in Christ Jesus and manifesteth the odour of his knowledge by us in every place.
(2Co 2:15) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved and in them that perish.
(2Co 2:16) To the one indeed the odour of death unto death: but to the others the odour of life unto life. And for these things who is so sufficient?
(2Co 2:17) For we are not as many, adulterating the word of God: but with sincerity: but as from God, before God, in Christ we speak. (ALL DRB)

Now the context in which the verse is embedded is important.

The context:

Paul says we who are saved do not need to be a specific place and time to know we have God’s knowledge to spread his word of salvation. Even under depressed and awkward times and places we are still victorious as a Roman leader’s triumph and his welcome party back home.

We are winning ministers of God anywhere we go. We carry the message of God ourselves and we receive a ticker tape parade (as a sweet odor) amongst other believers and even unbelievers. We are winners and our message uplifts both the saved and those that are still in chains and lost (as the slave in Rome).

Bless you,

APAK

I agree with you that

• I Have Been Saved (past event)
• I Am Being Saved (present event)
• I Will Be Saved (future event)

I am a bit uneasy with the dichotomous believers and unbelievers, or "us v.s. them". It's not our job to tell God how to apply His perfect justice and mercy with our imperfect understanding. But we will all know who is saved after we are dead, and not before.[/QUOTE]

epostle: I just don't agree with your last sentence, that will continue to divide us on this topic. I do know of myself, of the spirit working within me, although I do not know of others with 100 percent certainty. I cannot know for certain someone else's heart, although I can believe their heart through their words and actions over time.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

Grateful to you for articles like this, it uncompromisingly exposes the Abomination of the Roman Catholic Desolation as well as the Desolation of the Roman Catholic Abomination, not to mention the most blasphemous bull of all, Quote '~ALL straight from the Bible~'.

Who could have thought the church of the two commandments would get so haughty? Actually it all the while has been the inevitable.

Do not underestimate the intelligence and alertness of the paltry Protestants.

I don't underestimate the intelligence of Protestants - just the intelligence of the ignorant anti-Catholic ones like yourself.

All I did was present OT type and show the NT fulfillment.
If YOU have a problem with that - you should take it up with GOD - not me . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Addressed this multiple times....cannot understand it for you.

Actually - you haven't . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Already did, so have others.

Scripture does not destroy the Lord is forever WITH a Converted man.
Nor does Scripture teach men ARE Converted multiple times.

It teaches that converted men can fall away by their own doing and be lost forever.
I gave NINE passages - but I'll whittle it down to just TWO, if you care to address them . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (EPIGNOSIS). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (EPIGNOSIS) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

YOUR problem all along is that you cannot get past "EPIGNOSIS" . . .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY, CONSECRATED PERSONS AND THE LAY FAITHFUL
ON THE PROCLAMATION OF THE GOSPEL
IN TODAY’S WORLD
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html

APOSTOLISCHES SCHREIBEN
EVANGELII GAUDIUM
DES HEILIGEN VATERS
PAPST FRANZISKUS
AN DIE BISCHÖFE
AN DIE PRIESTER UND DIAKONE,
AN DIE PERSONEN GEWEIHTEN LEBENS
UND AN DIE CHRISTGLÄUBIGEN LAIEN
ÜBER DIE VERKÜNDIGUNG DES EVANGELIUMS
IN DER WELT VON HEUTE
http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...sortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium.html

You have no excuse. If you are going to demonize Catholicism, demonize what is really taught. You ingest stupid lies like a junkie shoots up heroine. I've spoon fed you before, but you spit it out like an infant does with his pablum. Will you harden your heart and come with the same venom next week?

... really demonized...
APOSTOLISCHES SCHREIBEN
EVANGELII GAUDIUM
DES HEILIGEN VATERS
PAPST FRANZISKUS
AN DIE BISCHÖFE
AN DIE PRIESTER UND DIAKONE,
AN DIE PERSONEN GEWEIHTEN LEBENS
UND AN DIE CHRISTGLÄUBIGEN LAIEN
ÜBER DIE VERKÜNDIGUNG DES EVANGELIUMS
IN DER WELT VON HEUTE

I wish you could look at yourself the way you look at THBE ... unless looked at with a microscope some differences might be spotted. The overall impression is virtually identical.

 

[Taken]

Actually - you haven't . . .

 

[Taken]

It teaches that converted men can fall away by their own doing and be lost forever.
I gave NINE passages - but I'll whittle it down to just TWO, if you care to address them . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27

“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

Knowledge OF......

2 Peter 2:20-22

For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Knowledge OF.....

YOUR

problem all along is that you cannot get past "EPIGNOSIS" . . .

Your problem is you lack understanding and are too stiffnecked to seek the Lords Understanding... but rather rely on philosophies and nonsense of men.

ANY man can have Extensive Knowledge "OF" the Lord. That does NOT constitute a "Conversion".

You are teaching because a man HAS extensive knowledge OF .... He therefore IS Saved. Hogwash!

A man is not forced to be Saved...He "chooses" That option.

A man WHO IS for a day or 50 years gaining Knowledge OF the Lord IS not Saved/Converted UNTIL He chooses to accept the Lords Offering!

It is the Saved and Born Again / ie Converted man Whose Difference IS he NOT ONLY knows "OF" The Lord....he "KNOWS " The Lord and can Hear His Voice.

A man having gained knowledge OF the Lord is heading in the Direction To Become Saved/ Converted. He walks AWAY....duh...he will not have accomplished receiving the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The Lords Gift of Salvation IS an Offering....
Rocket science!!! If a man does Not Accept the Lords Offered Gift... duh... he loses it!

You keep desperately Trying To Give the Lords Offering To men who Did Not want it!

It is not your Gift To Offer or Give.
And it is not your place to decide ancient men chose to RECEIVE the Lords Gift .... because they had knowledge OF Him....and then as you teach threw His Gift back in the Lords Face. Utter psychobabble!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Knowledge OF.....

Your problem is you lack understanding and are too stiffnecked to seek the Lords Understanding... but rather rely on philosophies and nonsense of men.

ANY man can have Extensive Knowledge "OF" the Lord. That does NOT constitute a "Conversion".

You are teaching because a man HAS extensive knowledge OF .... He therefore IS Saved. Hogwash!

A man is not forced to be Saved...He "chooses" That option.

A man WHO IS for a day or 50 years gaining Knowledge OF the Lord IS not Saved/Converted UNTIL He chooses to accept the Lords Offering!

It is the Saved and Born Again / ie Converted man Whose Difference IS he NOT ONLY knows "OF" The Lord....he "KNOWS " The Lord and can Hear His Voice.

A man having gained knowledge OF the Lord is heading in the Direction To Become Saved/ Converted. He walks AWAY....duh...he will not have accomplished receiving the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The Lords Gift of Salvation IS an Offering....
Rocket science!!! If a man does Not Accept the Lords Offered Gift... duh... he loses it!

You keep desperately Trying To Give the Lords Offering To men who Did Not want it!

It is not your Gift To Offer or Give.
And it is not your place to decide ancient men chose to RECEIVE the Lords Gift .... because they had knowledge OF Him....and then as you teach threw His Gift back in the Lords Face. Utter psychobabble!

And THIS is where you LOSE - every time.

You simply refuse to accept that the Greek word used in these passages (EPIGNOSIS) does NOT simply mean "knowledge". I have shown you the explanations of Epignosis from PROTESTANT - as well as Catholic Greek scholars - and they ALL agree: It is defined as a full, experiential knowledge - similar to a marriage being consummated in Scriptural terms.

EVERY born again person has an Epignosis of Christ - and ONLY people with an Epignosis of Him are born again. Remember - denial is NOT a valid argument . . .