Catholicism v. Protestantism

[Taken]

Appreciate your comment. Would you mind elaborating? I just want to ensure I am truly saved

IF you are truly saved? Depends on "IF" you accomplished...."THIS IF".

Rom 10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

THAT is a mans reasonable service, to Believe, Confess Heartful Belief...which is Agreeing TO BECOME MADE, by the works and power of God...CONVERTED IN CHRIST.
(Forgiven your sin, for having Had disbelief,
Giving your body unto death, crucified with Christ, soul salvation, restoration of your soul, spirit quickening, rebirth of your natural spirit to the Lords born spirit, the Lords Seed within you, (which rebirths your spirit) the Lords Spirit within you, the Lords Power within you, Keeping you with and in Him forever).

Acts 3:
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


HOW THAT becomes accomplished IS;
BY mans belief and Acceptance of the Lord God'
HOW THAT becomes accomplished IS:
BY and THROUGH...."Gods Works".


Thereafter...a man "accomplished" BY and THROUGH Gods Works...
THAT MAN is "prepared" to do "WORKS FOR GOD"...
A "mans WORKS for God"... is simple.
Spread the WORD of God.
DO "for God", that which "Glorifies God in the eyes of the world".

All works a man DOES DO to Glorify God...(and that man does NOT receive rewards from other men)...
God Himself SHALL reward that man for his WORKS that have Glorified God to the eyes of the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Technically Apologetic Sheepdog is correct in that Justification and Salvation are not synonymous. I think salvation is a broader term encompassing not only Justification but a sense of being set apart for God.

In practice the terms seems to be used as synonyms in scripture. For example James says, in discussing faith and works:
What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? (James 2:14).
But them when giving an example in vs 21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?"

And Paul says in Rom10:9-13
if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For man believes with his heart and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.

Its more of a definition swapping between "English" use versus context in the original language (more transliteration)

"Saved" ( or salvation the state, process or condition) simply and only means to be rescued or delivered from. It needs a qualifier ( usually the context of the usage or another word). You can be saved from "hell" ( second death) or "saved" from a physical threat depending on usage.

Faith actually means "to know" ( as in be certain of) along the lines like we 'know with certainty" if we hit the switch the light comes on. It is not some nebulous metaphysical "hope' or other intangible. This is what Jesus was describing ( the effect) when He said "If you have the "faith" of a mustard seed..."

Justification (dikayoo) depending on context is a description of an action ( as in defining the intent) similar to what we would say

"laying your cards on the table" or "let me be frank with you" etc.

In that context, "justification"is a literal external validation ( public display) of the internal (belief at a level of certainty) faith which cannot be seen of itself.

 

[Ancient]

Hi all,

I was wondering if someone could discuss what drew them to the Catholic church vs. a Protestant church, or vice versa. I just want to be sure I am a part of a church that follows the Bible and God's vision for the Church most closely. I was also wondering what the different views on salvation are. I have heard that Catholics believe in a works-based salvation and wasn't sure if this was really the case as I am not well versed in Catholicism.

All thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks.

Hey my 2 cents worth. I understand the etymology of the word "Protestant" is a protesting Catholic. This is where our English word protest comes from. Luther was still a Catholic, but he was protesting against the hierarchy of the Catholic Church.

Shalom Friend

 

[farouk]

Its more of a definition swapping between "English" use versus context in the original language (more transliteration)

"Saved" ( or salvation the state, process or condition) simply and only means to be rescued or delivered from. It needs a qualifier ( usually the context of the usage or another word). You can be saved from "hell" ( second death) or "saved" from a physical threat depending on usage.

Faith actually means "to know" ( as in be certain of) along the lines like we 'know with certainty" if we hit the switch the light comes on. It is not some nebulous metaphysical "hope' or other intangible. This is what Jesus was describing ( the effect) when He said "If you have the "faith" of a mustard seed..."

Justification (dikayoo) depending on context is a description of an action ( as in defining the intent) similar to what we would say

"laying your cards on the table" or "let me be frank with you" etc.

In that context, "justification"is a literal external validation ( public display) of the internal (belief at a level of certainty) faith which cannot be seen of itself.

Faith has great definition by way of examples in Hebrews 11...

 

[Mungo]

Justification (dikayoo) depending on context is a description of an action ( as in defining the intent) similar to what we would say

"laying your cards on the table" or "let me be frank with you" etc.

In that context, "justification"is a literal external validation ( public display) of the internal (belief at a level of certainty) faith which cannot be seen of itself.

Justify
Theology - declare or make righteous in the sight of God.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

The process of a sinner becoming justified or made right with God. As defined by the Council of Trent, "Justification is the change from the condition in which a person is born as a child of the first Adam into a state of grace and adoption among the children of God through the Second Adam, Jesus Christ our Savior" (Denzinger 1524). On the negative side, justification is a true removal of sin, and not merely having one's sins ignored or no longer held against the sinner by God. On the positive side it is the supernatural sanctification and renewal of a person who thus becomes holy and pleasing to God and an heir of heaven.
(Catholic Culture)

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Justify
Theology - declare or make righteous in the sight of God.
(Concise Oxford English Dictionary)

That's not the correct transliteration as I said. There's a lot more to translation than reading a dictionary.

The sooner you realize that, the less errors you will make.

I see great promise in you.

 

[Mungo]

That's not the correct transliteration as I said. There's a lot more to translation than reading a dictionary.

Transliteration!!! Do you mean translations?

You gave your opinion of what it meant but no evidence.
I gave evidence. Here is some more.


6.

a. Protestant theology

to account or declare righteous by the imputation of Christ's merits to the sinner

b. Roman Catholic theology

to change from sinfulness to righteousness by the transforming effects of grace
(Collins Dictionary)

imply put, to justify is to declare righteous. Justification is an act of God whereby He pronounces a sinner to be righteous because of that sinner’s faith in Christ. According to one theologian, “the root idea in justification is the declaration of God, the righteous judge, that the man who believes in Christ, sinful though he may be, is righteous—is viewed as being righteous, because in Christ he has come into a righteous relationship with God” (Ladd, G. E., A Theology of the New Testament, Eerdmans, 1974, p. 437).
(gotquestions.org)

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Transliteration!!! Do you mean translations?

I said transliteration- I meant transliteration

You are attaching an "English words" to a non English word that has no direct equivalency in language meaning.

That's only the start of your misunderstandings but a major component.

 

[Mungo]

I said transliteration- I meant transliteration

You are attaching an "English words" to a non English word that has no direct equivalency in language meaning.

That's only the start of your misunderstandings but a major component.

You make no sense.

 

[Bob Estey]

Hi all,

I was wondering if someone could discuss what drew them to the Catholic church vs. a Protestant church, or vice versa. I just want to be sure I am a part of a church that follows the Bible and God's vision for the Church most closely. I was also wondering what the different views on salvation are. I have heard that Catholics believe in a works-based salvation and wasn't sure if this was really the case as I am not well versed in Catholicism.

All thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks.

I don't think you will find a perfect church. The best thing to do is obey the Lord's commandments, thereby setting a good example for the others in your church.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You make no sense.

and you have no functional knowledge of philology or other related fields as they apply to the subject at hand

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You gave your opinion of what it meant but no evidence.
I gave evidence. Here is some more.

No, you quoted a dictionary- that's not "evidence" that's a supposition.

Part of this stems from I believe you have an awareness of the translation process but no detailed knowledge of it or how it works and certainly zero experience.

I have had to translate ( as part of teams with numerous terps) things from documents to engineering manuals and know the process well.

There is no Rosetta stone so we have to d it the hard way.

Even in the most basic translation matrix model ( that has language equivalency) you have to scope the entire thought ( determine where it starts and stops) and do it in terms of completeness, tense, structure, emphasis and any other relevant factors. Those then may have to be reviewed through various lens such as cultural. historical or even awareness of current events to get it all down.

THEN you define the terms- arrange them in order then get another to review it to see if it makes sense.

Often times, we have to add words and phrases in English to get the "meaning" we understand (in English) that the original speaker didn't say ( Like a Wust translation). Many languages describe "feelings" that we have no words for so the translator has to improvise and as words change- so does the accuracy of those translations. That's why things like the dead sea scrolls with more language knowledge ( and sometimes relevant writings) also trigger retranslations based on new understandings.

That's the short version.

I didn't quote a dictionary, i put it in proper context as described above.

A skill I hope you decide to acquire. You would do well at it I suspect.

 

[GEN2REV]

An interesting historical perspective on Catholicism is its earliest beginnings. The Roman Emperor Constantine made the decision around 300 A.D. to mix a Roman-based pagan religion with Christianity as a means to dilute Christianity, or, you might even say, in a sense, to breed them out. This was an effort to control and/or ultimately destroy Christianity since nothing else to date had been effective. Christians were dying and willfully being killed left and right for their Faith, just as their Lord and Savior had done as an example. Rome could not get a handle on this quickly multiplying religion that was threatening her power in a big way.

Constantine created the Roman Catholic Church to be THE authority of all things Christianity and to hoard all Biblical knowledge to itself and act, just as Rome had for centuries, as a governmental power over the people. The Catholic Church embraced all manner of pagan rituals, and in many ways still do, and kept all Truth of Salvation and the Good News of the gospel away from the common man.

This effort, which was backed by supernatural (evil) influences, was very successful and to this day holds great power over our entire world. Even many of the so-called Protestant churches of today still align with Catholicism in certain popular doctrines. In my research, there is not a single Christian denomination today that is entirely accurate with scripture.

The only way to be 100% in alignment with God and His Ways is to study scripture for yourself with a sincere heart and prayerful diligence. The Holy Spirit intends to guide and give discernment to ALL who seek His Truth with a pure heart.

Study the history of the beginnings of the Catholic Church for much more detail and interesting facts about how it all went down and God bless you in your search.

 

[Mungo]

No, you quoted a dictionary- that's not "evidence" that's a supposition..

You spout nonsense.
I will waste no more time with you.

 

[Mungo]

An interesting historical perspective on Catholicism is its earliest beginnings. The Roman Emperor Constantine made the decision around 300 A.D. to mix a Roman-based pagan religion with Christianity as a means to dilute Christianity, or, you might even say, in a sense, to breed them out. This was an effort to control and/or ultimately destroy Christianity since nothing else to date had been effective. Christians were dying and willfully being killed left and right for their Faith, just as their Lord and Savior had done as an example. Rome could not get a handle on this quickly multiplying religion that was threatening her power in a big way.

Constantine created the Roman Catholic Church to be THE authority of all things Christianity and to hoard all Biblical knowledge to itself and act, just as Rome had for centuries, as a governmental power over the people. The Catholic Church embraced all manner of pagan rituals, and in many ways still do, and kept all Truth of Salvation and the Good News of the gospel away from the common man.

This effort, which was backed by supernatural (evil) influences, was very successful and to this day holds great power over our entire world. Even many of the so-called Protestant churches of today still align with Catholicism in certain popular doctrines. In my research, there is not a single Christian denomination today that is entirely accurate with scripture.

The only way to be 100% in alignment with God and His Ways is to study scripture for yourself with a sincere heart and prayerful diligence. The Holy Spirit intends to guide and give discernment to ALL who seek His Truth with a pure heart.

Study the history of the beginnings of the Catholic Church for much more detail and interesting facts about how it all went down and God bless you in your search.

You are someone else that spouts nonsensical opinions with no evidence to back them up.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are someone else that spouts nonsensical opinions with no evidence to back them up.

This isn't your thread and nobody asked for your opinion of my post.

The OP stated the following:

All thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

You spout nonsense.
I will waste no more time with you.

Your words have no meaning and your points have no substance. So much for any "knowledge" or "depth" you think you have.

Then again, you have evidenced numerous times that you are even aware you have little substance or knowledge of the relative subjects of your own- you can copy paste but you cannot elaborate. You cannot extrapolate. You cannot take multiple components and properly analyze them. Remember what Einstein said about not knowing something enough to explain it?

Translated: I cannot factually refute any point you make so let me go "wee wee wee" all the way home.

Then you revert to insults.

 

[Mungo]

This isn't your thread and nobody asked for your opinion of my post.

No-one asked you to regurgitate anti-Catholic rubbish that you have been taught but you did it.
You have no historical evidence to backup your claims.
Are the like Apologetic Sheepdog and think your opinions are proof enough?

 

[GEN2REV]

No-one asked you to regurgitate anti-Catholic rubbish that you have been taught but you did it.
You have no historical evidence to backup your claims.
Are the like Apologetic Sheepdog and think your opinions are proof enough?

 

[Mungo]

How childish.

But still no evidence for your false versions of history