Honesty? Here's a dose:
Anyone can walk away, but not you.
What is a "sparky post" I've never heard that term. Is is derogatory?
Much love!
Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11
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Anyone can walk away, but not you.
What is a "sparky post" I've never heard that term. Is is derogatory?
Much love!
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Too bad you did not understand what I said.
But honestly your " gotcha style" followed by "much love " is kinda silly.
Ahem, love is different than your attitude.
What I am saying is that some are walking way too deep into Jesus to ever depart.
Jesus takes up habitation in every believer.
That place is in the the spirit in a believer.
Paul says there are carnal as well as spiritual believers.
Those walking intimate with Jesus are full of the spirit.
The carnal believers are mental.
No intimacy.
Once Jesus becomes my center, it is impossible to be pulled away from him.
So you don't want to explain?
OK.
I'm used to people not wanting to answer questions.
Much love!
I'm guessing what ever it is you meant, that yes, it was intended to be derogatory, since you decline to elaborate.
Sigh!
I define Christian love as the heartfelt desire for someone's wellbeing in every respect, which I have for you. I honestly desire that you will walk with God in love and fellowship every day of your life, and that this closeness will result in your increased maturity and fruitfulness.
Much love!
Remember . . . pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
If it can happen to others . . . why should you be so certain it can't happen to you? I suggest that is hubris. Me? No, not me!! Never me!! Hm.
Your doctrine makes it up to you to remain saved. Paul calls that "fallen from grace".
However, if we are to accept as fully true passages such as these,
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
If these passages are actually true as written, then no one who is born again will be later lost. If anyone - 1 single person - who is born again fails to appear with Christ when He appears in glory, then these passages will turn out to be false. For myself, I choose to believe the plain teachings of the Bible. It's not false. It's true. It's the doctrine of a salvation that may be lost, that's what is false.
These passages, and many more, make plain clear statements of the permanence of rebirth, baptism into Christ, reconciliation to God, it's forever.
Many say to me, I only pay attention to the parts I like. Regardless whether that were even true . . . no passage in the Bible, if correctly understood, will contradict any other passage. These in particular are very plainly stated leaving no room for interpretation. One can say, "you have to understand, this will only apply to those who remain saved", or some such. But you can't say that the words mean anything other than what they seem to say, it's that simple.
If you then be risen with Christ . . . you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God . . . when Christ . . . shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him . . .
Now we are sons of God . . . we know when we see Him we will be like Him . . .
And the fact is . . . this is all about us being obedient to God, right? You'll tell me that too much disobedience (including faithlessness) will lead you to walk away, right? We need to be obedient, faithful, and if we do it enough, if we can get it right, we will remain with Him, is that what you teach? And we need to have fear, lest being disobedient, we become once again lost? Please correct me if I'm not understanding your point of view.
But look . . .
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
He that has this hope in him purifies himself. What hope? The hope - that is, Biblically speaking, a certain expectation because we believe God's promises - it's knowing, we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him.
Knowing this is true, knowing that the time is coming that we will see Him, and seeing Him as He is, we will become like Him, this is our hope. And having this hope, we purify ourselves. What does it do to our faith when we come to understand that Christ in me is my hope of glory, not me doing my best, which will always fall short, and is again, to be fallen from grace.
We do our best, oh yes, but not to gain a salvation already purchased for us by Jesus, but because He has purchased us, and we know that being owned by Him, He will collect His possessions, and do with them what He wants to do. He's told us what that is, it's to make us like Jesus. And no one can tell God what He can and cannot do.
I counsel to trust implicitly in God's promises.
Much love!
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
You just flat out do not understand what I am saying.
I do not think we will ever be on the same page.
You REFRAME what I say.
Just leave it be.
If you say no saved person has the ability in your world to depart from the faith it just must be correct.
I really do not have any more time to devote to it.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
SMH
Your entire argument is simply parroting what you have been taught.
We ALL BELIEVE our salvation is eternal.
You have no idea what depart from the faith is.
Here is tge difference and game changer for anyone looking for truth and an HONEST discussion.
IN AN HONEST DISCUSSION, I WOULD HOPEFULLY UNDERSTAND THE 2 SIDES OF A DEBATE.
You...not so much.
You can not make my case or position.
I , on the other hand, 100% UNDERSTAND your position.
In fact I can make YOUR CASE OF OSAS much better than you can.
The difference is , I have taken THE TIME to study BOTH SIDES.
The difference is I have not been taught for years and years, every single Sunday, from a Baptist pulpit, that once saved always saved always saved and no believer can ever depart, they have no choice, and if they ever did, you are taught the default sentence of; "well, that ole boy never was saved."
I have not had that terrible privilege of sitting through that mess in propaganda.
I was save once in 1976 and will never need another salvation.
I COULD walk away from the faith at any time.
( I can not go very deep into it, you will default one dimensionally and accuse or default into doctrinal baptist workbook sentences)
Too bad you condemn truth prior to investigation.
I did the opposite.
(Took the time to learn your doctrine).
Let me guess, you are also cessationist and election.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Snarky.
"Much love"
Is as much a cliche as anything.
Say it 100 times a day.
It loses any meaning.
BTW. Spell check changed it to "sparky" in this post also.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah.
I know you well.
I attend a Baptist Bible study 3 times a week
One of them has now questioned osas.
The rest default to what they hear in the pulpit.
I am full gospel.
I am a bit of an odity in the bible study.
I am once saved always saved.
You question security.
I do not.
I an secure in his keeping me.
He is able
Man is weak.
You can sin all you want to and God winks at it.
I am required to walk Holy.
Not saved by my own Holiness, I am MADE HOLY at conversion.
And REQUIRED to walk Holy.
Your doctrine has no such requirement, and gives sin a pass because you are in no way prompted from the pulpit to do anything but stare at certain verses that make sin no big deal.
Lol
Your doctrine is 100% circular.
Saved people can not depart from the faith according to you.
If they do, they never were saved.
Your pastor invented that circular REASONING.
You are programmed into it.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Your biggest hurdle is in understanding the debate.
Until you do, you will just parrot your circular reasoning.
You do not understand what the objections are.
That is why osas depends on refraiming the other side.
How aggegeius must sin become before God stops winking at it?
Osas says you can sin all you want.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Osas is obsessed with the concept.
Where is the root in that paranoia?
I totally believe it comes from the pulpit of carnal preachers.
As does cessation and election.
It has no traction in an on fire intimate believer.
Osas is an obsession with others that haven't got the Baptist memo.
What a relief to every Baptist to believe that their sin is no big deal.
Just don't look behind the curtain coming from the pulpit at what may shock you.
Where is the root in that paranoia?
I totally believe it comes from the pulpit of carnal preachers.
As does cessation and election.
It has no traction in an on fire intimate believer.
Osas is an obsession with others that haven't got the Baptist memo.
What a relief to every Baptist to believe that their sin is no big deal.
Just don't look behind the curtain coming from the pulpit at what may shock you.
Not so. Not in the slightest!
1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
This passage teaches the opposite. Knowing as a fact that being reborn now, that you will be made to be like Jesus, it's knoing this that leads us to purify ourselves.
That's not from me. This is the Bible.
Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Much love!
WalterandDebbie
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Always good to hear from you, BrotherAn Array Of Reinforcements
But what happens if the enemy succeeds in seducing us? What if during a time of weakness we slip up and give in to sin? It is at this point that the believer needs secondary levels of reinforcement, similar to how the Roman lines would stack rows upon rows of soldiers one behind the other, and rotate them out to keep the lines fresh. In the spiritual war, if the first line of defense breaks, we need to fall back on what we have "behind us," or in other words, what Christ has done through us and in us in the past. So Satan got a little victory in our lives, and found a way to bring us a little shame and defeat. What happens now?
The account of Job reveals very clearly that Satan deliberately tries to set things up so we will not just engage in sin but ultimately curse God to His face and denounce Him afterwards, bringing complete and total destruction to our faith.
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?" 9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!" (Job 1:8-11)
He uses all manner of tricks to attempt this. In New Testament times, he was perpetrating the lie that eating meat sacrificed to demons was permissible for Christian, up until they actually did so, at which time he began beating them over the head for having taken communion with a demonic god and "sinned against the Lord." As Paul stated, it could potentially lead to some brothers "perishing," in thinking they had committed an unforgivable sin against God, and cast down their faith in Him altogether.
10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?... the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God: and I would not that you should have communion with demons. (1 Corinthians 8:10-11, 10:19-20)
The Gnostics, regarding whom Peter was writing this letter, were doing similar things. They were teaching others that fornication was permissible, and that no amount of sexual sin could affect a believer's salvation, for they supposedly now had "freedom" from the Old Testament laws. But as Peter would say, this "freedom" was a lie.
17 These are wells without water... 18 For when they speak great and swelling exaggerations, they allure through the lusts of the flesh and through sexual licentiousness those who have actually escaped from the ones living in error. 19 While they promise them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whatever a person is overcome, by that he is also brought into enslavement. (2 Peter 2:17-19)
Here again Satan would begin beating them over the head once they had committed sins like adultery, once their defenses were greatly diminished against his accusations because they were now guilty as charged. And if they had never reinforced their faith with anything they could point to to say Christ had indeed been working through them in the past, their faith might be hanging by a thread indeed.
Though it's painful to think about, we need to ask ourselves, "What if I do succumb to Satan's strategies some day, and what if I do fall into sin? Will I stand or will I fall?" Paul stated in one place that sin can quite easily beset us (Hebrews 12:1), and in another place warned, "Let him who stands take heed lest he fall." (1 Corinthians 10:12). I have personally struggled with sins throughout much of my Christian life, which is not something I am proud of. I also love the Lord, however, and have dedicated my life to serving Him, and I've had Him manifest Himself through me so many times that the Accuser has had little chance with getting me to cast down my faith. He cannot tell me there has been no true spiritual conversion in my life. Sure I may still struggle in some areas, but there is no way I would have ever been capable of the things I have done without truly coming to Christ. No way.
But I have a brother who has made some mistakes in the past, and his wife gives him a hard time over it. There are difficulties in his marriage and home life, and he and his family have also experienced multiple spiritual attacks through witchcraft. This is likely in part because he has a calling on his life and has been used mightily of God to receive prophetic dreams in the past, some of which have been important to my own life. Yet he has succumbed to depression, and to taking medication to function at his job. What is the answer for a dear brother in Christ like this who is facing such struggles? He hangs on, but sometimes talks as if He is of little value in the kingdom of God now.
I believe the answer is to fall back on the times we have been used of God, so I am reminding him of how the Lord has used him in the past and continues to. The man sent me a dream not long ago that contained wonderful promises and was a great encouragement to me, and how the Lord intends to use me and others, so I highlighted these things to him, and remind him not to lose sight of the work the Holy Spirit is still doing within him. And I remind him too that the end goal as Peter said is that we make our calling and election sure, so that we can be certain to be granted access into the kingdom of God at His return or at our deaths, which ever comes first.
Question & Applications
1. What thoughts do you remember having as you were reading through this study? Do you recall anything in particular standing out in your thinking.
2. What have been your thoughts when you heard some new believer say, "But I don't feel saved?," and what have you attempted to tell them in the past?
3. Food for thought: Do you feel the advice to reinforce their faith with spiritual evidence could be skewed and turned into a law?
4. For the sake of viewers who might like to see testimonies of the work of Christ in us and how this teaching applies, what fruit of the Spirit do you feel the Lord has manifested through you the most?
5. What fruit or spiritual gifts have you been "abounding in" more lately? Again, understand that this is not an exercise in pride, but giving testimony to what Christ is doing in and thorough you.
Previous Studies in the series:
Charismatic Bible Studies- 2 Peter 1:1-4, Part 1
Escaping Eternal Corruption, By Attaining Unto Glory And Virtue, Part 1 When is the last time someone preached to you that the Lord Jesus Christ has called you to His own glory and virtue? While I do not teach the doctrine of sinless perfection, I fully believe that we are called to emulate...www.christianityboard.com
Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:1-4, Part 2
Escaping Eternal Corruption, By Attaining Unto Glory And Virtue, Part 2 As mentioned in Part 1, the Vestal Virgins were the epitome of virtue amongst the Greeks and Romans. Their purity and chastity was of such importance to the State that they could be buried alive if they were to forsake...
Love, Walter And Debbie
Thank you for your clarification.
But in the meantime, I learned there is such a thing as a Sparky Post, in that they offer AI services to help you form posts for your forum. Did you read that link? I had no idea!
Meanwhile, snarky, yes, I know all about that!
Much love!
Thank you, Walter. Trying to get back to writing and posting again now. Took a little time off, but it's nice to receive a little encouragement now and then.
WalterandDebbie
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We all need His strength.Thank you, Walter. Trying to get back to writing and posting again now. Took a little time off, but it's nice to receive a little encouragement now and then.
Love, Walter And Debbie
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you have no power over your birth, just as you have no power over your rebirth. You cannot make yourself "unborn".
And I'm saying that according to the Bible, it's not going to happen. All who are reborn will appear with Christ. All who are reborn will be made into His likeness when we see Him.
This is what the Bible says, not me, the Bible. And yes, it's correct.
Much love!
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False characterization. I'm sharing Scripture. Your replies are all these personal accusations and character assasination. And it gets boring, because it's off topic.
Like this. What nonsense! Yet you post it! And there are many things like that.
I've posted clear Scriptures, I've pointed to what they say. Your reply is to share all your negative comments about me. So should I take that to mean you are not able to refute the Scriptures, but you still want to argue, so you go with what you've got, and this is it?
Or are you able to have a more productive sort of discussion? Because if you just continue to post your negative comments about others, well, that just doesn't cut the mustard. There is no fruitfulness.
Much love!
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