Chart of Revelation's 6 stories

[Timtofly]

Rev 20:11-15
"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Verse 12 says the dead stood before God. Doesn't this population consist of pre-millennium unrighteous plus the righteous and unrighteous dead of the millennium? Isn't verse 15 unnecessary if there are no righteous that die during the millennium?

Since there are dead at the GWTJ and not all of them are cast into the lake of fire, righteous people die during the millennium.
Those dead righteous people have to be resurrected after the millennium just like the righteous dead before the millennium. Two resurrections of the righteous.

Those in the Millennium will not physically die. That is the point in Isaiah 65 that humans will live as trees. They will build a house and remain in that house for the whole 1,000 years. They will spread out over the whole earth, each generation, and subdue the earth per Genesis 1:28. There will be no sin nor death, period.

Any child who disobeys will be considered cursed, and death is the immediate punishment. No prison, rehabilitation, nor justice system. The iron rod rule, will demand instant death. Obedience will be normal. Disobedience will be abnormal.

 

[quietthinker]

Those in the Millennium will not physically die. That is the point in Isaiah 65 that humans will live as trees. They will build a house and remain in that house for the whole 1,000 years. They will spread out over the whole earth, each generation, and subdue the earth per Genesis 1:28. There will be no sin nor death, period.

Any child who disobeys will be considered cursed, and death is the immediate punishment. No prison, rehabilitation, nor justice system. The iron rod rule, will demand instant death. Obedience will be normal. Disobedience will be abnormal.

lol...so they wont die but death will be the immediate punishment for disobedient children?

 

[Timtofly]

lol...so they wont die but death will be the immediate punishment for disobedient children?

Exactly. No one is expected to disobey. No one is expected to die.

Did Adam plan to disobey on a certain day, waiting in hope for it to arrive? Was Adam expected to disobey God?

Adam was a grown man. It would be assumed that if one had not disobeyed in the first 100 years of their life, they would not at any time during the remainder of the 1,000 years.

But no one will be in a physical body of death, that will decay, growing old, and die.

Death is not natural, but only as a punishment like when Adam disobeyed God. Except this time a person will be removed from life and placed in death. When do you think all those souls emptied out of death, actually arrive in death? Right now souls only go to sheol. When the 4th Seal is opened we see death as being introduced into creation seperate from sheol. This is the place those go, who have been removed from the Lamb's book of life, as there is no other reason it appears just prior to the Lamb's book of life being unsealed so names can be removed.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Wax seals?.....I think that needs rethinking!

So, you do not understand that they sealed messages up with Signet Seals? Come on, really?



Each King had a family crest, and they thus had Signet Rings that created a seal on a message. They usually placed 3 Signet Seals on each message. A king could not chance sending an attack message only to have the messenger betray him on his plan of attack. If those seals had been broken they attack would be called off and the messenger killed.


You don't even seen to understand what a Wax Seal is !!

 

[quietthinker]

Exactly. No one is expected to disobey. No one is expected to die.

Did Adam plan to disobey on a certain day, waiting in hope for it to arrive? Was Adam expected to disobey God?

Adam was a grown man. It would be assumed that if one had not disobeyed in the first 100 years of their life, they would not at any time during the remainder of the 1,000 years.

But no one will be in a physical body of death, that will decay, growing old, and die.

Death is not natural, but only as a punishment like when Adam disobeyed God. Except this time a person will be removed from life and placed in death. When do you think all those souls emptied out of death, actually arrive in death? Right now souls only go to sheol. When the 4th Seal is opened we see death as being introduced into creation seperate from sheol. This is the place those go, who have been removed from the Lamb's book of life, as there is no other reason it appears just prior to the Lamb's book of life being unsealed so names can be removed.

You've got quiet a narrative going there Timo, but I'm sorry, not one that finds any resonance in the scriptures I read.
If you are interested sometime, maybe you are open to another narrative?

 

[quietthinker]

So, you do not understand that they sealed messages up with Signet Seals? Come on, really?

What I do know is that wax and signet rings are never mentioned.

 

[quietthinker]

You don't even seen to understand what a Wax Seal is !!

really!

 

[ewq1938]

What I do know is that wax and signet rings are never mentioned.

Seals are mentioned on a book. What are the seals made of?

 

[quietthinker]

Seals are mentioned on a book. What are the seals made of?

Inside the scroll is the story of woe and destruction and it appears no one has a solution to suffering (can open the scroll) not even God on his throne (check the context) ....until the slaughtered lamb enters the scene.

 

[Timtofly]

You've got quiet a narrative going there Timo, but I'm sorry, not one that finds any resonance in the scriptures I read.
If you are interested sometime, maybe you are open to another narrative?

No thanks. Daniel 9:24 is a reality only after the Second Coming and the cleansing of the earth by fire. Any one who thinks sin continues in the Millennium is not staying with Scripture.

It is written right there in Isaiah 65, not my narrative, but God's Word.

 

[Timtofly]

Inside the scroll is the story of woe and destruction and it appears no one has a solution to suffering (can open the scroll) not even God on his throne (check the context) ....until the slaughtered lamb enters the scene.

Inside the book are the names of everyone ever conceived covered by the Atonement Covenant. Once opened, names will start being removed. That is why there is woe, not because woe is found in the book. The woe is being still found on earth after the Second Coming, and the likelihood of being removed from the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

What I do know is that wax and signet rings are never mentioned.

LOL.............You are just sinking deeper and deeper my friend.

 

[quietthinker]

No thanks. Daniel 9:24 is a reality only after the Second Coming and the cleansing of the earth by fire. Any one who thinks sin continues in the Millennium is not staying with Scripture.

It is written right there in Isaiah 65, not my narrative, but God's Word.

be aware Timo, you are deciding what I am saying re any detail, not me.

 

[quietthinker]

LOL.............You are just sinking deeper and deeper my friend.

Ohhhh? enlighten me.

 

[6 Stories]

The righteous would be made immortal at the 2nd coming. As for the unrighteous, we aren't told if anyone dies at that time. They might, but a part in Daniel speaks of beast having their lives prolonged and the timeframe is generally the second coming etc so that could explain how no unrighteous die in the Millennium. Many die after it is over, that's for sure.







I don't see anyone who doesn't get cast into the LOF....plus the righteous would not be referred to as the dead since they would be raised immortal and ALIVE in the truest sense of the word. No, the dead at the GWTJ are spiritually dead and ALL go to the LOF.

Reasons to believe sin and death will occur in the millennium:
As I already quoted in 1 Cor 15, Jesus must reign on earth until his last enemy (death) is defeated. Jesus reigns for 1000 years on earth, not 1 day.

Healing will exist even in the NHNE which is not for immortals. Rev 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Healing will exist during the millennium. Ez 47:12 "And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."

Zech 14:1-3 speaks of the millennium. A fountain for sin in verse 1 and death in verse 3.
"1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the Lord: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth."

Ez 45:22 "And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering." There will be sin during the millennium.

Micah 4:3 "And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." People will be rebuked during the millennium.

This is consistent with the need for Jesus to rule with a rod of iron. Rev 19:15

Even in the NHNE, sin and death will enter. Is 65:17-20.
"17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

Men is a term used for mortals. Mortals have children to replace the dead. The heavenly host do not have wives or children. The immortal will be as angels.

 

[ewq1938]

Reasons to believe sin and death will occur in the millennium:
As I already quoted in 1 Cor 15, Jesus must reign on earth until his last enemy (death) is defeated.

Death existing does not mean anyone dies during the Millennium. I already mentioned how Daniel wrote about beasts having their lives prolonged at the timeframe believed to be just after the second coming.


Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.