Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

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prism

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Well if Josephus says so it must be true.

Yet Paul says :
Romans 4:11-12 ASV
and he (Abraham),received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe,though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; [12] and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.

Romans 11:16-17 ASV
And if the first-fruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches. [17] But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree;
 

Vendetta

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Was Jesus born a Jew? Even if your absurd rationalization of John 8:44 were true, it doesn’t change the fact that other books of the Bible use Jew in a different sense. In Acts, Luke referred to Jews as the hono keepers of the law. In Romans, Paul talked of advantages of being a Jew In God’s divine plan.



Wrong. The Jewish descendants conquered Canna at God’s command.

Jesus was born a Jew, wasn’t he?
How are your comprehension skills? Jesus is a Galillean; the Scripture states HE SHALL BE CALLED A NAZERENE, not a Jew. Furthermore, is Yahweh God Jewish? Do you understand modern translations lump Israelite Judeans in the same basket as Canaanite Judeans, as well as others, to include converts to Judaism?
Wake up man.
 

David Lamb

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How are your comprehension skills? Jesus is a Galillean; the Scripture states HE SHALL BE CALLED A NAZERENE, not a Jew. Furthermore, is Yahweh God Jewish? Do you understand modern translations lump Israelite Judeans in the same basket as Canaanite Judeans, as well as others, to include converts to Judaism?
Wake up man.
But "Jew" originally meant "of the tribe of Judah." Jesus was certainly that. Indeed, He is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah:

NKJV Rev 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
 

Wick Stick

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But "Jew" originally meant "of the tribe of Judah." Jesus was certainly that. Indeed, He is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah:

NKJV Rev 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
Yes, true.

Yet, Jesus did not grow up there, or live there. When His ministry began, He didn't go to the Jews. His ministry was in Galilee. He later preached and healed in Perea, the Decapolis, and Trans-Jordan. All of those places were historically parts of Israel that were not Judah.

When Jesus DID go to Judea, He went for the feasts, and He hid the fact that He was traveling there.

And He just straight up tells us:

Matthew 15:24 But [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus was (re)establishing Israel, bringing back all the lost tribes. That mission didn't take Him to the Jews, because their tribe wasn't lost.
 

Davy

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Well if Josephus says so it must be true.

Yet Paul says :
Romans 4:11-12 ASV
and he (Abraham),received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe,though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; [12] and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.

Romans 11:16-17 ASV
And if the first-fruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches. [17] But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree;

It is recognized that most Jews are taught to dislike Josephus, because Josephus and those soldiers with him in the war with the Romans all agreed to commit suicide to prevent from being taken and tortured. It was agreed that the soldiers would kill each other, and the last one remaining would kill himself. Josephus was last, and he didn't do it. So the Jews hate him for that and try to smear his works on Israel's history.
 
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Vendetta

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But "Jew" originally meant "of the tribe of Judah." Jesus was certainly that. Indeed, He is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah:

NKJV Rev 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals."
The nation that formed in Palestine after the Babylonian captivity of the southern kingdom was initially made up of people from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, along with some Levites. They settled in two regions, with the Judahites primarily in Judea and with Benjamin in Galilee. Internally they are referred to as Judeans and Galileans in the New Testament. The Judeans of the region of Judea came to include all the people living there, regardless of their racial origins. All these people are referred to by translators as "Jews" because they were “of Judea”. But this does not mean “of Judah” only. Included in the population were many descendants of Esau [Edomites]; these subsequently came to control the temple, and these were the leaders whom Jesus said could not hear [and understand] His words.

This is the view of modern Jewish authorities, Encyclopaedia Judaica 1971, 10, 21:
From the division of Israel and Judah, the term 'Yehudi' applied to all the residents of the Southern Kingdom, irrespective of tribal status.

The words “Jews” and “Judean” did not apply to the Northern Kingdom. They never have!

In the New Testament we have two different words rendered as Jews:
Ioudas – Of the descendants of Judah
Ioudaios - Belonging to Jehudah or of Judea (in the sense of as a country)

Ioudaios is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Yehudi. It is translated as “Jew” and includes proselytes to Judaism. This is thus more a matter of being a Jew by religion or region than by race.
Thus we can see that the generalisation of the word Jew cannot be sustained in Scripture. One Greek word covers all the peoples occupying the former land of the covenant people, while the other word covers the covenant House of Judah in isolation. Ioudaios does not specifically refer to race at all and usually refers to people who are not of the descendants of Judah. This does not mean to say that there were no Ioudas [Judahites] or members of other tribes amongst them. From all this we can see that Jew and Judah are not synonymous terms and that there is a sharp distinction between them. It follows that the name, Israel, should not be applied to the Jewish people as a whole or to the country they occupy.
Historically, in the land of Judea, in addition to Judahites, there were Canaanites, Edomites and others, all of whom were proselytes to the Jewish religion. As a consequence, these were labelled “Jews” since they were “Jews” by religion and they lived in the land of Judea. But they were not of the descendants of Judah!

The territorial term explains how Paul could be called a Jew. Paul was a Benjamite [Philippians 3:5]. Paul and eleven of the disciples did not descend from the Tribe of Judah. To help with understanding here, it must be pointed out that the word 'Ioudaios' can cover a mixture of races which may include some of Ioudas, both of which were in the territory of Judea. In the New Testament, the words translated as "the Jews” are used in a bad sense, whereas today they are commonly used in a good sense. Jesus continually condemned "the Jews” [plural], as did the Apostle Paul. “The Jew” [singular] as used in Romans is used in a different sense.

THOSE WHO SAY THEY ARE JEWS BUT ARE NOT
Jesus says here, as well as in Revelation 3:9, that the Jews were liars. If we took "Jew" to refer to Israelites, we have to come to a decision about, them which say they are Jews but do lie [Rev 3:9]. Do false "Jews" [as translated] exist or not? Why should the churches continue to teach that "The Jews" must never be condemned because they are God's chosen race? Did Jesus condemn this section of the Judean nation, or not? This matter is of huge importance as a matter of fundamental understanding. It has a great bearing on prophetic interpretation. It has a bearing upon what is going on in the Israeli state today. This is no minor doctrinal point! Incidentally, "The Jews" are never called God's chosen people in the Bible!

At face value, the translation is saying that there are people who say that they are Jews but who are not Jews in fact. The common acceptance of the word "Jew" says every Jew, regardless of race, is a good Jew and that everyone who says that he is a Jew is a Jew. Jesus is contradicting this.

Are we to agree with Jesus or with Church/Christian tradition?
 
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Lambano

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And He just straight up tells us:

Matthew 15:24 But [Jesus] answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Context. Jesus is talking to a woman whom Matthew identifies as a Canaanite (Matthew 15:21), and Mark as a Greek Syro-Phoenician (Mark 7:26). A Gentile. Jesus is defining the "House of Israel" over and against the goyim, not the House of Judah.
 

Dale Oaks

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Jews are Canaanites (Amalek) by race; hence, both Yahweh and Christ despised that vile group. Who today says that they are the Judahites of scripture? but are not?
Wake up folks
Vendetta: “Jews are Canaanites (Amalek) by race; hence, both Yahweh and Christ despised that vile group.”

Whenever the Israelites planted their crops, the Midianites,
Amalekites and other eastern peoples invaded the country.
They camped on the land and ruined the crops all the way to
Gaza and did not spare a living thing for Israel, neither sheep
nor cattle nor donkeys.
Judges 6:3-4 NIV


It is well known that Amalekites attacked the Israelites when Moses was leading them to the Promised Land. In the scripture above, the Amalekites attacked the Israelites, and did so frequently. Then you try to tell me that Jews are Amalekites? On the contrary, they were enemies.
 
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Wrangler

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Jews are Canaanites (Amalek) by race; hence, both Yahweh and Christ despised that vile group. Who today says that they are the Judahites of scripture? but are not?
Wake up folks

It is well known that Amalekites attacked the Israelites when Moses was leading them to the Promised Land. In the scripture above, the Amalekites attacked the Israelites, and did so frequently. Then you try to tell me that Jews are Amalekites? On the contrary, they were enemies.

It is posts like @Vendetta that cause me to exclaim that it's amazing what one reads on the internet.

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Dale Oaks

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How are your comprehension skills? Jesus is a Galillean; the Scripture states HE SHALL BE CALLED A NAZERENE, not a Jew. Furthermore, is Yahweh God Jewish? Do you understand modern translations lump Israelite Judeans in the same basket as Canaanite Judeans, as well as others, to include converts to Judaism?
Wake up man.
“Nazarene” in Matthew is a reference to certain Jews who separated themselves by taking religious vows. The term in the OT is Nazirite.

The LORD said to Moses,
“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man or woman
wants to make a special vow, a vow of separation to the
LORD as a Nazirite,
he must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and
must not drink vinegar made from wine or from other
fermented drink. He must not drink grape juice or eat grapes
or raisins.
Numbers 6:1-3 NIV


The description continues, taking up Numbers 6:1-21.

Nazirite is not a tribe separate from the Jews but a group of Jews who abstained from wine, grapes, and haircuts, at least for a limited time.
 
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Wrangler

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“Nazarene” in Matthew is a reference to certain Jews who separated themselves by taking religious vows. The term in the OT is Nazirite.

The LORD said to Moses,
“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man or woman
wants to make a special vow, a vow of separation to the
LORD as a Nazirite,
he must abstain from wine and other fermented drink and
must not drink vinegar made from wine or from other
fermented drink. He must not drink grape juice or eat grapes
or raisins.
Numbers 6:1-3 NIV


The description continues, taking up Numbers 6:1-21.

Nazirite is not a tribe separate from the Jews but a group of Jews who abstained from wine, grapes, and haircuts, at least for a limited time.
It's so funny that he protects poor reading skills. I've seen many who rely on archaic translations with "James" in the title make this and similar mistakes. <sigh>
 

Wick Stick

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Context. Jesus is talking to a woman whom Matthew identifies as a Canaanite (Matthew 15:21), and Mark as a Greek Syro-Phoenician (Mark 7:26). A Gentile. Jesus is defining the "House of Israel" over and against the goyim, not the House of Judah.
Broader context. This is a theme that stretches from the prophets through the gospels. Jesus is referencing Jeremiah 50:

Jeremiah 50:4 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God. 5 They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, [saying], Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant [that] shall not be forgotten. 6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

This is a common topic for Jesus - the restoration of Israel to existence, and being re-joined together with Judah into a united kingdom. See how Jesus sets Himself in opposition to the bad shepherds:

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

The prophecies for the two kingdoms are different. The House of Israel suffered destruction, and their prophecy was for resurrection. The House of Judah was carried away beyond Babylon, and their prophecy was for re-gathering. At the time Jesus is talking, the re-gathering of Judah had already happened. Judah were not lost sheep.

Israel still needed resurrection. It was the northern kingdom that became lost. Jesus went to do that. He said so. You explained it away with a verse.

Look at His actions instead, then. They demonstrate it very well.
 

Wick Stick

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“Nazarene” in Matthew is a reference to certain Jews who separated themselves by taking religious vows. The term in the OT is Nazirite.
Uh... did you not look up the verse?

Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Nazarene here absolutely has to do with living in Nazareth. That's what the verse says.
 
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