Christians And Us Politics

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Choir Loft
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Perhaps if christians were not so involved in politics as they are, the governments would not feel the need to silence them as they seem to be doing.


Your naivete' is showing. Governments do not have the right to silence ANYONE.

Historically, governments began their most severe tyranical rule by silencing groups and organizations which were not 'approved'.


If Christians are denied the right to speak and act, YOUR OWN restrictions will not be far behind.
 

brionne

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Your naivete' is showing. Governments do not have the right to silence ANYONE.

Historically, governments began their most severe tyranical rule by silencing groups and organizations which were not 'approved'.


If Christians are denied the right to speak and act, YOUR OWN restrictions will not be far behind.

I completely understand that, however my view is that christians should not meddle in politics anyway.

Religion should be separate to state. Especially so for Christians who have accepted Christ as their King. Jesus did not get involved in politics, he did not try to be an earthly king and rule when he was here because his kingdom was not an earthly kingdom as he stated.

The only kingdom that we should align ourselves with and show our support for is the heavenly kingdom. By all means we need to obey our governments laws and in doing so we are 'paying back Caesars things to Caesar' but our first priority should be with the laws and requirements of the heavenly kingdom thereby paying back 'Gods things to God'
 
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Choir Loft
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I completely understand that, however my view is that christians should not meddle in politics anyway.

Religion should be separate to state. Especially so for Christians who have accepted Christ as their King. Jesus did not get involved in politics, he did not try to be an earthly king and rule when he was here because his kingdom was not an earthly kingdom as he stated.

The only kingdom that we should align ourselves with and show our support for is the heavenly kingdom. By all means we need to obey our governments laws and in doing so we are 'paying back Caesars things to Caesar' but our first priority should be with the laws and requirements of the heavenly kingdom thereby paying back 'Gods things to God'

Christians can not isolate ourselves politically by stating simply that the only thing we need to be concerned about is our religion....and let our country go down the toilet (which it already is doing - we just can't agree on who pulled the lever). Please consider the following article. Seriously.

What collapsing Empire looks like. -Glen Greenwald

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/08/06/collapse

I cannot tell anyone what to do - politically, but I can indeed cry long and loud that we need to DO SOMETHING.

It is a sin of omission not to.

I don't know about you, but I believe that Our Lord has given me this country to live in, to work in and to worship in.
My family lives here, my community is here, my culture is here, my roots are here.
I have no love for the greedy cowards in Washington, but I DO want a decent place for my children and my grandchildren to live in.

Heaven is bye and bye. America is here and now and every soul who reads this knows it.

As long as I live and breath, I OWE it to those I love and live with to try and DO SOMETHING.

AND SO DO YOU.
 
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brionne

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Christians can not isolate ourselves politically by stating simply that the only thing we need to be concerned about is our religion....and let our country go down the toilet (which it already is doing - we just can't agree on who pulled the lever). Please consider the following article. Seriously.

What collapsing Empire looks like. -Glen Greenwald

http://www.salon.com.../08/06/collapse

I cannot tell anyone what to do - politically, but I can indeed cry long and loud that we need to DO SOMETHING.

It is a sin of omission not to.

I don't know about you, but I believe that Our Lord has given me this country to live in, to work in and to worship in.
My family lives here, my community is here, my culture is here, my roots are here.
I have no love for the greedy cowards in Washington, but I DO want a decent place for my children and my grandchildren to live in.

Heaven is bye and bye. America is here and now and every soul who reads this knows it.

As long as I live and breath, I OWE it to those I love and live with to try and DO SOMETHING.

AND SO DO YOU.

Jesus was given the opportunity to become the king of the world....Satan presented him with that temptation but he rejected the offer, Why?

Because he knew that the only real solution to creating a world where all are equal, all are safe, all are healthy and happy rests in Gods hands. Mankind have been trying to build Utopian societies for thousands of years and have failed time and time again because the very things we desire are not within our capability to achieve. On top of that we have to accept that the real ruler of this world 'Satan' is the one who pulls the strings and we have no power to stop him.


So we can try as much as we like to improve the politics of our countries, but the truth is that we will not accomplish much under human rule.

Jesus recognized that and so should we. Our true and best hope rests with God and his kingdom. And if we take the words of the Prophet Daniel to heart at Dan2:44 "“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite" we will recognize that any kingdom on earth which we support will soon be removed anyway....so why waste our energy on something that is only temporary?
 
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Choir Loft
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So we can try as much as we like to improve the politics of our countries, but the truth is that we will not accomplish much under human rule.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

In Jesus name we should stand by and do nothing as the Feds shovel all the national resources into the hands of the oligarchy.
In Jesus name we should pray quietly as millions of people at home and abroad suffer under unjust laws and we should simply wait for the coming Kingdom as our fellow citizens go jobless and homeless.

In Jesus name we shouldn't do anything because humans like us won't do anything either.

They don't do anything so I don't have to do anything.

Have I got that right?

Just one question.

Who is my brother's keeper?
 

brionne

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Let me see if I understand you correctly.

In Jesus name we should stand by and do nothing as government shovels all the national resources into the hands of the rich. We should pray quietly as millions of people at home and abroad suffer under unjust laws and we should simply wait for the coming Kingdom as our fellow citizens go jobless and homeless.

We shouldn't do anything because humans like us won't do anything either.

Have I got that right?

Just one question.

Who is my brother's keeper?

the mismanagement of mans rulership is always going to be with us....we all suffer from the same problems and we will never be able to solve them on our own

we simply have to acknowledge that hard fact. We are never going to rid the world of unemployment, drought, floods, homelessness, illness etc etc

These are things beyond our control...even those who are in government cannot solve such things. We should strive to support ourselves as best we can in the meantime, and if we have the means to help others, then by all means help them in the best way we can to support those worse off then us. But if we think we need to involve ourselves in politics then we will be fighting a loosing battle.
 

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Choir Loft
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But if we think we need to involve ourselves in politics then we will be fighting a loosing battle.

How do you know that if you don't TRY.

My purpose here is to encourage the reader TO DO something, not use the gospel as a tissue thin excuse for apathy.

Write to your elected representatives, participate in local church charity projects, support your own favorite causes, help the homeless when their hands are out to you, assist the sick and the lonely. Whatever.

DO SOMETHING, don't just sit there and make excuses. Our mandate as Christians is to make a difference in the world.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Mat 5:13
 

brionne

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How do you know that if you don't TRY.

My purpose here is to encourage the reader TO DO something, not use the gospel as a tissue thin excuse for apathy.

Write to your elected representatives, participate in local church charity projects, support your own favorite causes, help the homeless when their hands are out to you, assist the sick and the lonely. Whatever.

DO SOMETHING, don't just sit there and make excuses. Our mandate as Christians is to make a difference in the world.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Mat 5:13

I know this because for the past 6.000 odd years the pages of mankinds history is littered with the proof that mans governments fail over and over and over again.

I know this because God tells us at Psalm 146: 3-4 "Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. 4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish"


God also tells us that we do not have the capability to manage ourselves at Jeremiah 10:23 “To earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.”


However, we can do the other things you mention, we can get involved in charity and the like...that is where we can make a difference to those who really need it. The politicians have another agenda and its not helping the poor.....just look at how many politicians opposed the medical reforms designed to help those without the means to provide for themselves.
 

prayeagle76

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I think a Christian should be aware of the events that are shaping our nation. I think we have sat on the sidelines far to long. We let one woman take prayer out of our schools, we stood idly as abortion laws were enacted.
Now our nation is facing a deep moral crisis, ersion of our rights, the inroads Islam is amking into our communties. Yes we need to be informed, and active.
 

Simpleman

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Don’t we read at 1 John 5:19 “We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one”

The politics of the age be it left or right of the paradigm from Socialism to capitalism belong to the “god of this world” Satan. Jesus was clear in what he said at John 15:19 “If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as one of its own. But because you do not belong to the world and I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you”.

Jesus refused to get involve in the politics of his day and there are no records of Christians being involved with the politics of Caesar. God in the end will deal with those who violate his word and laws. Paul referring to the Lords day said “Seeing it is a just thing with God to repay tribulation to them that trouble you” (2 Thess 2:6)

And the solution is!


"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Dan2:44)

The Kingdom of God is the only answer to our woes as stated in Daniel 2:44. God has allowed the Devil to experiment with every conceivable government along the spectrum, the only one that hasn’t arrived is the eight king that will rule for one hour “The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction” (Rev 17:11) and those who worship it get the mark of the beast 666. This must represent some-kind of world government that's given authority for rule of one hour.

I ask you if Jesus were her in the flesh today would he be a socialist or a capitalist, I doubt he would have been either in his day or any Christians for that matter during the first century.

I would not concern yourselves with lobbying governments with the issues of the day unless it's a violation of your right to preach as that is a command Jesus gave us “And the gospel must first be published among all nations” (Mark 13:10) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matt 28:18-19)
 

Foreigner

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I am re-reading a book by Janet Folger called, "The Criminalization of Christianity."
She details the current plight of Christians in the U.S. today as well as shows trends for what we can expect in the future.
She shows scripturally where Christians should expected to face not just prejudice but actual persecution.
The point she makes very well is that while it is going to happen eventually, we shouldn't sit around waiting for it to happen.
We should fight tooth and nail to preserve our rights and keep our freedoms.
I agree with her because the stronger the Christian presence for as long as possible, the more opportunities to win people to Christ before it is too late.

It is all about the saving of as many souls as possible.
 

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Choir Loft
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Don’t we read at 1 John 5:19 “We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one”

The politics of the age be it left or right of the paradigm from Socialism to capitalism belong to the “god of this world” Satan. Jesus was clear in what he said at John 15:19 “If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as one of its own. But because you do not belong to the world and I have chosen you out of it, the world hates you”.

Jesus refused to get involve in the politics of his day and there are no records of Christians being involved with the politics of Caesar. God in the end will deal with those who violate his word and laws. Paul referring to the Lords day said “Seeing it is a just thing with God to repay tribulation to them that trouble you” (2 Thess 2:6)

And the solution is!


"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Dan2:44)

The Kingdom of God is the only answer to our woes as stated in Daniel 2:44. God has allowed the Devil to experiment with every conceivable government along the spectrum, the only one that hasn’t arrived is the eight king that will rule for one hour “The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction” (Rev 17:11) and those who worship it get the mark of the beast 666. This must represent some-kind of world government that's given authority for rule of one hour.

I ask you if Jesus were her in the flesh today would he be a socialist or a capitalist, I doubt he would have been either in his day or any Christians for that matter during the first century.

I would not concern yourselves with lobbying governments with the issues of the day unless it's a violation of your right to preach as that is a command Jesus gave us “And the gospel must first be published among all nations” (Mark 13:10) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matt 28:18-19)

We read this rubbish all the time, that Jesus didn't get involved in the politics of His day.

POLITICS OF HIS DAY KILLED HIM.
Not only did politics kill Jesus, but He stood up and met it. Jesus did not run away.
Jesus did not shirk the duty entrusted to Him by the Father. Jesus wasn't apathetic. Jesus didn't say "someday God will make it better".
Jesus was always working and teaching and suffering FOR THE PEOPLE.
Politicans always SAY they are FOR the people, but Jesus went so far as to die FOR the people.
Worldly politicans are always calling others to sacrifice and die FOR the people, but Jesus DID IT.
If that is not the ultimate example of the perfect politican, then I don't know what is. Do you?

Lastly, it was not necessary for Jesus to utter the same garbage that politicans and revolutionaries always cry. He was and is already in office.
Jesus IS the King of Kings. It is not necessary for Him to run for an eternal office which is His by merit.

So then does that mean that Christians can sit back on their holy duffs and do nothing but wait for Kingdom come?
By no means. We are called to follow Jesus' example.

Shall we then WAIT for a time when it is illegal to preach the gospel? The time has arrived. It is already illegal in Canada where portions of the Bible are considered Hate speech.
HOW LONG SHALL WE WAIT? ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

Something is very wrong and our liberty to live and be Christian is at stake.
 

Simpleman

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We read this rubbish all the time, that Jesus didn't get involved in the politics of His day.

POLITICS OF HIS DAY KILLED HIM.
Not only did politics kill Jesus, but He stood up and met it. Jesus did not run away.
Jesus did not shirk the duty entrusted to Him by the Father. Jesus wasn't apathetic. Jesus didn't say "someday God will make it better".
Jesus was always working and teaching and suffering FOR THE PEOPLE.
Politicans always SAY they are FOR the people, but Jesus went so far as to die FOR the people.
Worldly politicans are always calling others to sacrifice and die FOR the people, but Jesus DID IT.
If that is not the ultimate example of the perfect politican, then I don't know what is. Do you?

Lastly, it was not necessary for Jesus to utter the same garbage that politicans and revolutionaries always cry. He was and is already in office.
Jesus IS the King of Kings. It is not necessary for Him to run for an eternal office which is His by merit.

So then does that mean that Christians can sit back on their holy duffs and do nothing but wait for Kingdom come?
By no means. We are called to follow Jesus' example.

Shall we then WAIT for a time when it is illegal to preach the gospel? The time has arrived. It is already illegal in Canada where portions of the Bible are considered Hate speech.
HOW LONG SHALL WE WAIT? ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE.

Something is very wrong and our liberty to live and be Christian is at stake.

My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)

Those who follow of Christ should remain loyal to his kingdom and steer clear of all worldly politics. As far as freedom of speech goes, one of the reason those who live in the US have that freedom is ironically is down to Jehovah's witnesses or the Watchtower society (and no I don’t wish to get into a discussion about Jehovah's witnesses) who fought through the courts so courageously during the 1950s for the right to preach under 1st amendment. Here's a quote from in defence of civil rights in the United States, the University of Cincinnati Law Review said: “Jehovah’s Witnesses have had a profound impact on the evolution of constitutional law, particularly by expanding the parameters of the protection for speech and religion.” Whether we agree with Jehovah's witnesses is neither here or there, the fact is Jehovah's witnesses have done more for the right to preach (that all Christian groups have benefited from) under the 1st amendment than any other religion, that is well documented.

There is nothing wrong with using the legal system to fight for your rights as Jehovahs Witnesses did so under the 1st amendment, but that doesn’t make individuals political does it, their just taking a stand for the kingdom. I was trying to ague left and right of the spectrum, thinking you can solve the woes of the world is dancing to the devil in his political arena, Christians are sipmply no part of that world.



 

Foreigner

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"Those who follow of Christ should remain loyal to his kingdom and steer clear of all worldly politics." -- Simpleman


-- You couldn't be more wrong. If those politics restrict the sharing of God's word, many people who could be saved if basic freedom was allowed will then not be. We as Christians need to do everything we can to ensure that our freedoms are not impinged upon in order to share God's word and ensure that as many people as possible can be saved before His return. That is what we are called as Christians to do.
 

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Choir Loft
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I was trying to ague left and right of the spectrum, thinking you can solve the woes of the world is dancing to the devil in his political arena, Christians are sipmply no part of that world.




Christians are not part of this world?

When was the last time you ate?
When was the last time you evacuated your bowels?
If you do that you are part of this world.

You cannot hide in the dark while claiming to be a son of light.

Apathy is a SIN, not a virtue.

"Our attachment to no nation upon earth should supplant our attachment to liberty."
(Declaration of the Causes and Necessity for Taking Up Arms, B.1.215)
1775 June 26-July 6.
THOMAS JEFFERSON
 

Simpleman

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Christians are not part of this world?

When was the last time you ate?
When was the last time you evacuated your bowels?
If you do that you are part of this world.

There are two issues, the God of Heaven and the sanctification of his name or the god of this systems' road to hell. Eating & evacuated may bowels have nothing to do with it.

 

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Choir Loft
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There are two issues, the God of Heaven and the sanctification of his name or the god of this systems' road to hell. Eating & evacuated may bowels have nothing to do with it.

Obviously this discussion has gone far beyond the boundaries of common sense and proof. Perhaps there is a reason for the direction it has taken.

On two occasions I encountered people who vehemently stated a position that was logically untenable, the conclusions of their arguments being diametrically opposed to one another; completely unfounded in evidence or reason. For example I remember Edna, a homeless woman who lived in a grove of trees and who swore she was from another country. She had been a teacher in the public fool system and retired to her stand of oaks in the park. Some said that she had made a life style decision. The only thing I could tell that was wrong with her was that she needed a bath; BADLY.

I also remember Fred who wore a cap made of aluminum foil to keep alien rays from penetrating his skull. I made the mistake of suggesting that the bombardment would wear out the thin foil and that he should carry around an extra roll; just in case. Ever after that he did.

You couldn't persuade either one of them that their behavior was ill conceived. I asked a doctor friend why they acted this way and he suggested the following definition of the condition.

Split personality:
Multiple personality disorder, a neurosis in which the personality becomes dissociated into two or more distinct parts each of which becomes dominant and controls behavior from time to time to the exclusion of the other parts.


I have learned here that it's a good thing that some people choose not to participate in the political process.

It's bad enough as it is.
 

Simpleman

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I have learned here that it's a good thing that some people choose not to participate in the political process.

I have no intention of participating in the political process, I was simply making the point God’s people have no part to play in the political system. Maybe you’d like to tell me what ‘ism’ Jesus would belong to if he was here on earth today? Would he be a Republican or Democrat a Socialist or Capitalist? Remember he said his kingdom is no part of the world, a world that belongs to the devil. He told Christians to pray for the kingdom of God, that’s not going to manifest itself the some worldly government now is it!

Wasn’t it Jeremiah who wrote “I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps” Is't that what politics is about, directing their own steps.The political process is floored and doomed from Gods stand point, what’s the point of shining a bell on a sinking ship, stay out of the political area and have faith in Gods incoming government, the one that Daniel spoke off.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [or government] that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms [governments] and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Daniel 2:44)



 

veteran

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Well then, maybe it's time to take things a little further, and talk about the foundation of America's law being based upon God's laws in The Bible?

I for one hate what politics has become, but what politics is really about is creating and changing laws that affect us. I personally am very concerned when our elected officials introduce legislation that goes against our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, and our inalienable rights from God.

God's people must have a law, otherwise we would be lawless, which is how the wicked want to live in creating chaos and evil around us. All Christians should be concerned about those things. As U.S. citizens, we have a duty to be concerned about that, because our system of government is not like other nations of history. Ours was designed for us to take part.

What our Lord Jesus said about rendering unto Casear what belongs to Casear, and to God what belongs to God, is a moot point on this matter. Why? It's because He showed us His first coming was not to take rule over the nations with a rod of iron, but to die on the cross. He said He didn't come to bring peace, but division. He said if His Kingdom was of that time, then His servants would have fought to prevent His crucifixion.

As Christians, it's not our job to force Christianity upon those who don't want it. But it is our duty to suggest laws that follows the way God wants us to live, so not only that we may enjoy peace and prosperity of His blessing, but also that the unbelieving may enjoy that also, and by that example their possibly seeing that difference and coming to Christ. Christians can have that influence in politics without putting the label Christian upon it.

For whatever reason, many of God's people in America have gotten away from understanding what God's laws are about. It's not by accident that inside the U.S. Supreme Court building in D.C. it has wood carvings of Moses holding tablets which represent God's giving of His Ten Commandments. The first four commandments are primarily spiritual involving our relationship with God of The Bible. But the last six concern mostly how we treat each other, which is covered withn our civil law system still today.

I think our U.S. judicial system by the founders, by limits of the U.S. Constitution in regard to religion, was doomed for failure in protecting our nation as a Christian nation by not covering the first four of the Ten Commandments under judicial process. The founders instead allowed that corner to remain open because of not wanting to create another theocratic state where corrupt Church leaders could persecute our religious freedom, a major issue which the early founders of the American colonies never forgot with their escape from religious corruptions in European Church/State governments.

So our judicial system was reduced to protecting the order of civil law which involves the last six commandments (how we treat each other), while allowing us freedom to worship whatever we want.

Our nation in its early history actually DID make laws that supported Christianity and the following of the first four commandments, even some communities making it a law requirement to attend a Church on Sunday (Blue laws). Some counties in the U.S. still won't allow the selling of alchohol on Sundays, and limit the amount of business done on Sunday. But little by little, the "crept in unawares" have found out our Constitution does not support government promoting laws involving religious belief. The first ammendment states the government shall make no law promoting religion; but also will not prohibit its free excercise.

That has opened America up to allowing every kind of religious belief on earth to come here. The only way I see our nation could limit the number of religions coming into our country is by limiting immigration. That still wouldn't stop born U.S. citizens from bringing other religious beliefs back to America via travels to foreign nations.

I think our early U.S. Constitutional founders understood what they were doing, and also understood the problems that might come by not defining Christianity as the only allowed religious freedom. They only assumed that we would remain a Christian nation, as that is what the majority then followed. The real key is what the 'majority' follow still today. If the majority of U.S. citizens want our nation to be a Christian nation, then our U.S. Constitution protects U.S. citizens right to that. But it must be by consent of the majority, and not by rule of law. That is what makes the U.S. different from other nations, especially nations where the religion is head of the state (like Islamic countries, and some old Catholic countries).

What can we say then? Should we the people change the 1st Ammendment to state that government will only promote Christianity and no other religion, while allowing free exercise of religious freedom at the same time? (I'm a Christian by the way). We would fast become a theocratic Church state if that was done. I think all Christians (myself) wouldn't mind that to some degree, as long as it didn't force Christianity upon the unbelieving against their will. But I don't see how that would happen. The unbelieving could be put under the rule of law to follow Christian doctrine while they followed something else in privacy of their home.

What is the answer then?

There's only one me thinks; it is the future Monarchy reign of our Lord Jesus Christ, our KING. A monarchy truly is absolute rule. And if the monarch is perfectly righteous, and spreads righteousness to the people, then there is no better system of government to be under. But if the monarch is wicked, there's no worse type of government over the people. Many of God's people have learned that firsthand in previous generations (my ancestors from Euroope included). Under a righteous monarch, without a parliamentary system to get in the way, but with righteous governors, much of the bickering by politicians we see today wouldn't exist.

Yet I love my country of the United States of America, so don't get me wrong. All I'm doing is pointing out how much we NEED our Lord Jesus King of Righteousness, for no man can be a perfect ruler today. That's why even the most advanced government system on earth today (our U.S. Constitutional Republic) has also fallen short of the glory and righteousness of Christ's future Monarchy reign, and it will continue to do so.
 

Strangelove

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I have no intention of participating in the political process, I was simply making the point God’s people have no part to play in the political system. Maybe you’d like to tell me what ‘ism’ Jesus would belong to if he was here on earth today? Would he be a Republican or Democrat a Socialist or Capitalist? Remember he said his kingdom is no part of the world, a world that belongs to the devil. He told Christians to pray for the kingdom of God, that’s not going to manifest itself the some worldly government now is it!

Wasn’t it Jeremiah who wrote “I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps” Is't that what politics is about, directing their own steps.The political process is floored and doomed from Gods stand point, what’s the point of shining a bell on a sinking ship, stay out of the political area and have faith in Gods incoming government, the one that Daniel spoke off.

"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [or government] that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms [governments] and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. (Daniel 2:44)

100% agree with this. Good post Simpleman sir.

Voting changes nothing.