Christians are in Rebellion against God for not following Torah

[Pavel Mosko]

This thread is offensive to every sane Christian who follows the New Testament and is openly operating in the spirit of antichrist.

If this thread were filled with XXX porn, S&M bondage movies and Lady Gaga videos with her dancers covered in pig blood dancing at the Super Bowl, it would be arguably less offensive and satanic than it currently is now.

Just to clarify this thread because I think you missed the point, this thread is not something I am arguing for but a friends position that I am arguing against. My Messianic rabbi friend is not alone in this, there are other people who got the same position called Torahists. The Biblical Roots channel that I follow on YouTube covers this topic in depth and the professor of Biblical Studies who hosts it has frequent debates with people espousing this theology.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

My understanding, as I have paraphrased above, of the Sabbath Law tells us that the people who do not keep the Sabbath Law, when they are judged, during the Final Judgement, will be dispatched into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death, at that time.

That's because your understanding is very faulty and is based on trying to live under the old covenant.

One cannot be saved following the old covenant so you should be scared, very scared as death approaches.

Or, you could REPENT and become a Christian and live under the New Covenant which does not teach we are to only honor the Lord on Saturdays.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

XXX porn, S&M bondage movies and Lady Gaga videos with her dancers covered in pig blood dancing at the Super Bowl

These are things the greasy grace people love!

Those that are racist against the descendants of Abraham apparently love this stuff as well.

It's odd you bring pigs blood in to this. Are you moslem?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

This antichristic thread gets the schism award..

"Christ the Judge Against the Spirit of Forty Thousand Schisms"

 

[Dan Clarkston]

It's funny how the followers of the evil one produce art work that depicts the devil as some big powerful being

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

These are things the greasy grace people love!

Those that are racist against the descendants of Abraham apparently love this stuff as well.

It's odd you bring pigs blood in to this. Are you moslem?

I believe that you're a "genetic descendant of Abraham" like how I believe that Mao Zedong played quarterback for the Green Bay Packers in Super Bowl II against the Oakland Raiders. And even if you were Abraham's son, it would not save you without Christ.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I believe that you're a "genetic descendant of Abraham" like how I believe that Mao Zedong played quarterback for the Green Bay Packers in Super Bowl II against the Oakland Raiders. And even if you were Abraham's son, it would not save you without Christ.

And yet you are the one producing art work that depicts the devil as some big powerful being.

Proud of your daddy over there are ya?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And yet you are the one producing art work that depicts the devil as some big powerful being.

Proud of your daddy over there are ya? View attachment 88459

It's funny how the followers of the evil one produce art work that depicts the devil as some big powerful being View attachment 88458

The greatest trick of the devil is constantly convincing people that the dragon is not a real threat.
And here you are, right on cue, ridiculing the very idea that the enemy should be feared.

 

[Jay Ross]

That's because your understanding is very faulty and is based on trying to live under the old covenant.

One cannot be saved following the old covenant so you should be scared, very scared as death approaches.

Or, you could REPENT and become a Christian and live under the New Covenant which does not teach we are to only honor the Lord on Saturdays.

No, when I presented my paraphrasing of the associated scripture concerning the keeping of the Sabbath Day Holy unto God, I corrected the flawed interpretation of "surely be put to death" to "die the second death".

Dan, it is you who have blindly accepted the faulty translation of supposedly "theological scholars" who have caused God's truth to be sealed up so that you do not see His full truth.

Sadly, many within "Christian circles" are not better than their Jewish counterparts in that these many within Christian circles are also worshipping idols just like they did and presently still doing.

Shalom

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Greetings brother @Pavel Mosko,
Acts 15 is not describing a “starter phase” of Torah obedience; it is a covenant ruling on whether Gentiles are required to come under the Law of Moses.

Yes, I tried to be clear on this when starting this thread that I am not advocating this viewpoint, but am doing the opposite arguing vigorously against the position because an old friend, a "Messianic Jewish rabbi", has fallen into this belief now widely described now as "Torahism". This is basically a nicer term than the popular term "Judaizer" seen as pejorative by some, and there are some caveats that unlike the Judaizers of the New Testament, the Torahists of today specifically concede that they are not arguing of circumcision nor do they uphold concepts like an Oral Torah and other customs and traditions like the Pharisees of old against associating with gentiles etc. I believe I even added/ edited in a new disclaimer to this fact, after another person assumed I espoused this position.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I presented my paraphrasing of the associated scripture concerning the keeping of the Sabbath Day Holy unto God

Keeping the saturday sabbath is not in the new covenant and the new covenant mentions nothing concerning not keeping saturday sabbath as being a sin as it does for all sorts of sinful things.

You believing in tithing as well? That's not a new covenant thing either.

So show me in the New Testament instructions for Christians to keep so called saturday sabbath and tithing along with warnings on what happens to those who do not keep saturday sabbath and tithing.

FYI, in the New Covenant we are not under the Law of Christ not the law of Moses

Under the Law of Christ the rest God has for man can only be found by abiding IN Christ continually being led by the Holy Spirit and cannot be found on Saturday

Matthew 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

It's time to start following Jesus and stop trying to follow Moses.

 

[Jay Ross]

Keeping the saturday sabbath is not in the new covenant and the new covenant mentions nothing concerning not keeping saturday sabbath as being a sin as it does for all sorts of sinful things.

You believing in tithing as well? That's not a new covenant thing either.

So show me in the New Testament instructions for Christians to keep so called saturday sabbath and tithing along with warnings on what happens to those who do not keep saturday sabbath and tithing.

FYI, in the New Covenant we are not under the Law of Christ not the law of Moses

Under the Law of Christ the rest God has for man can only be found by abiding IN Christ continually being led by the Holy Spirit and cannot be found on Saturday

Matthew 11:28-30
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

It's time to start following Jesus and stop trying to follow Moses.

Oh Please Dan, it seems to me that you have an axe to grind in an attempt to sharpen it but the reality is that you are taking the sharp edge of the axe off so that you can be comfortable in what you believe.

In my posts above I made no statement concerning the keeping of the Sabbath Day of Rest as found in the Torah, however my comment was squarely focused upon the error in the translation of these two Hebrew Word: -

which is usually translated as "shall surely be put to death", whereas I was suggesting that it should be translated as "die the second death."

Now you and others have not addressed what I had commented upon, but rather you have created a strawman's argument claiming that I am supporting the keeping the Sabbath Day on the seventh day of the week on a Saturday.

What Exodus 31:14 is suggesting is that those who do not keep the Sabbath Day Holy should be physically killed for this particular sin, whereas verse 14 is actually presenting the case that the person not keeping the Sabbath Day Holy will become a candidate for the Second Death because of his sin at the time of the final judgement. If we do not Keep Any of God's Statutes, then we have sinned against God and as such we become destined for the Lake of Fire when we are judged to be unrighteous at the time of the final judgement.

Either, I am wrong in my understanding of how these two Hebrew words should be paraphrased, or I am right.

You have chosen to attack me personally rather than to comment upon what I had posted in my previous posts.

In other words, you have presented a false argument, in a vain attempt to prove that you are more "holy" than I am.

Goodbye Dan, you have shown that you are not worthy of any further conversation with me on what I had posted.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Oh Please Dan, it seems to me that you have an axe to grind in an attempt to sharpen it but the reality is that you are taking the sharp edge of the axe off so that you can be comfortable in what you believe.

And you STILL cannot show instructions given in the New Testament directly Christians to observe saturday saabbath and you STILL cannot show from the New Testament warnings of what happens to those not observing saturday sabbath

What's your story about that? Do you think the Lord totally forgot to put this in the New Covenant?
Do you people think it slipped the Lord's mind and the Lord got forgetful in His old age er something?

Face it bud, you are trying to live under Moses as your high priest and that ends badly.

It's time to start following Jesus and stop trying to follow Moses.
Those holding on to Moses gonna burn, so don't wreck yo self

 

[Jay Ross]

And you STILL cannot show instructions given in the New Testament directly Christians to observe saturday saabbath and you STILL cannot show from the New Testament warnings of what happens to those not observing saturday sabbath

What's your story about that? Do you think the Lord totally forgot to put this in the New Covenant?
Do you people think it slipped the Lord's mind and the Lord got forgetful in His old age er something?

Face it bud, you are trying to live under Moses as your high priest and that ends badly.

It's time to start following Jesus and stop trying to follow Moses.
Those holding on to Moses gonna burn, so don't wreck yo self

Dan, you are still presenting your false straw man's argument. As such that is no need for me to enter into further discussion with you.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

you are still presenting your false straw man's argument.

Says the guy who has NO scripture from the New Covenant that instructs Christians to observe Saturday sabbath