michaelvpardo
Well-Known Member
Please forgive me if I offer the same argument given by some other post; I just couldn't bring myself to read all of them, but I still want to address the original premise that Jesus' Christianity and Paul's are not the same. Of course they aren't. Jesus was a Jew and a Rabbi, not a Christian. Jesus taught the Torah and the prophets from the perspective of God and in the context of His mercy and grace. Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles and only taught the law of Moses to the extent that it was necessary to define sin to a people unfamiliar with the law, but He was given the mission of preaching the gospel of grace, not to be a teacher of the law. The law had harsh punishments for sin (and still does,) but Jesus came to bring salvation from sin, not to condemn the world. The world already stands condemned by the law (because the world is fallen), and if it weren't for God's grace every man would be eternally seperated from God.
Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and His gospel differed from Pauls in that it was given to the Jews who were awaiting the kingdom of God and didn't understand that they needed to be redeemed; they understood themselves to be children of Abraham and inheritors of the promises of God. Some didn't even believe in a resurrection (the Saudacees) yet believed themselves as inheritors of the promises given to Abraham. Jesus certainly taught that salvation comes through belief in Him and clearly taught that obedience was evidence of knowing Him. Jesus also clearly taught His equality with God the Father. These are the same things that Paul preached, but in the light of the resurrected Christ.
It's true that Jesus kept company with those Jews that were identified as "sinners," but you always see Jesus telling sinners to repent of their sin, including those that he dined with, touched, healed of diseases, cast demons from, etc. Jesus was without sin Himself and remained seperate in nature from those that He associated with, in as much as God remains seperate from man. It wasn't until the Lord rose again from the dead that the Holy Spirit was given to indwell those that received Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Apostle Paul preached the gospel to Jews, but His given mission was preaching to the gentiles, who had no access to God through a levitical priesthood, but were by nature seperated from the promises made to Israel. The gospel itself removes that seperation between Jew and gentile. Paul didn't teach that Christians should avoid contact with sinners, as this would require being removed from the world and would also prevent Christians from accomplishing their mission of preaching the gospel to and making disciples of all men.
Paul also understood that our sanctification is through the grace of God and not by the righteous works of the law. Ritual seperation of clean from unclean is meaningless in the context of grace, however Paul saw a need for church discipline, including seperation of those engaging in willful sin from fellowship, but not with the intent of condemnation, but in the hope of restoration. The goal of discipline in the context of the church has always been repentance and restoration. The ministry of the gospel is a ministry of reconciliation, first to God and then between men.
When I was first saved and began to understand the scripture, I was also troubled by Paul's writings, in that he sometimes struck me as being proud, self righteous, and arrogant. In retrospect, I believe that much of my trouble with Paul is what I saw of myself in his written expression. Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and until I understood the extent of the self righteousness of the Pharisees, I was unable to understand Paul and I was unable to understand myself. Paul met the risen Lord on the road to Damascus and on his way with papers authorizing the arrest of members of the Christian sect. He had a great zeal for God, but one born of ignorance, not understanding God's grace until he experienced it himself.
The Pharisees, desiring to be righteous and demonstrate their righteousness to all, created rules and regulations of their own by the hundreds. They had the problem that if they were honest with themselves they knew that they couldn't satisfy the righteous requirements of the law, so they picked out things which they could do in their carnal nature which gave the appearance of satisfying the law. For example, the law instructs that a person shouldn't boil a kid (of the goats) in it's mothers milk, and while this is a simple and easy instruction to observe, the Pharisees expanded this with additional easy to keep rules, such as not allowing dairy products to come in contact with meat. Modern Jewish orthodoxy is still based largely on such Pharasaical rules and you would notice in some grocery stores with a Jewish clientel, that the baggers have instructions to avoid even placing dairy products in the same bag as meats. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for believing themselves righteous for keeping all such practices, while ignoring the "weightier" matters of the law, such as "justice, mercy, and faith." Jesus taught those under the law that they should observe all things under the law and to obey the priests as they sat in the seat of Moses. Paul was preaching to those who were without law, but the same message of Grace. However, Paul certainly was raised in the context of Pharaseeism and was a sinful man inspite of his self imposed righteousness (prior to abandoning his own righteousness in the light of God's grace.)
When we are saved by faith in Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, our spirits, formerly dead in transgression and sin, are made alive again by His Spirit. We receive a new "heavenly nature" in being born again, but still retain a fleshly or worldly nature according to our natural birth. Paul taught about this extensively and of the war that rages between the "flesh" and the "Spirit."
Some people tend to idolize Paul for his monumental accomplishments in establishing the gentile church and for his contribution to the body of Scripture. I believe that Paul gave a true testimony and witness and that his letters were indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit, yet the man was clearly preaching to himself as well as to the church and clearly went through a long process of sanctification through which he suffered many things for the sake of the gospel and through which he was made ever increasingly Christ like. It was Paul the aged that identified himself as the "chief of sinners," and contrary to popular thought the man wasn't made perfect on the Damascus road.
Paul preached salvation by God's grace alone. Jesus taught observance of the law, but also taught that it was impossible for men to enter the kingdom of God based upon their own righteousness. Jesus also plainly taught that salvation was in knowing God, believing Him and the One whom He sent. The expression of these truths were different between Jesus and Paul because of the context in which they were given, yet their meaning is the same.
If you want to compare the behavior of Paul and Jesus, then you need to consider that Jesus came to earth as the Son of God and with a sinless nature, while Paul was born with a fallen (sinful) nature and was the recipient of God's grace the same as anyone who would receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. You're considering men born with opposing natures. Jesus' nature remains the same and unchanging, Paul was given a new nature in opposition to the one he was born with, created by the Spirit of Christ, and given for the purpose of conforming him to the image of God, renewed in Christ. If we have received Him by faith, then it is the likeness of God, expressed in the person of Jesus Christ that we are to be conformed to. God gave us Paul as an example of an imperfect and sinful man being transformed by His grace, so that we could also follow in his example, being born of the same sinful nature, yet being renewed in the image of Christ.
Those that believe in works righteousness will always try to discredit Paul, but this is because they believe themselves already equal to God in their self righteousness, reducing the righteousness of God to that which they can achieve by their own merit. Those same will always make the claim that Jesus was teaching them that they could attain such righteousness by being careful to observe all that Jesus taught, yet Jesus was actually teaching standards which were unobtainable by men, so that we could see our need for Him and His grace. I haven't provided the scriptural texts to prove the things that I've written here. but I'll be happy to produce them if you're prepared to receive them.
Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom and His gospel differed from Pauls in that it was given to the Jews who were awaiting the kingdom of God and didn't understand that they needed to be redeemed; they understood themselves to be children of Abraham and inheritors of the promises of God. Some didn't even believe in a resurrection (the Saudacees) yet believed themselves as inheritors of the promises given to Abraham. Jesus certainly taught that salvation comes through belief in Him and clearly taught that obedience was evidence of knowing Him. Jesus also clearly taught His equality with God the Father. These are the same things that Paul preached, but in the light of the resurrected Christ.
It's true that Jesus kept company with those Jews that were identified as "sinners," but you always see Jesus telling sinners to repent of their sin, including those that he dined with, touched, healed of diseases, cast demons from, etc. Jesus was without sin Himself and remained seperate in nature from those that He associated with, in as much as God remains seperate from man. It wasn't until the Lord rose again from the dead that the Holy Spirit was given to indwell those that received Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Apostle Paul preached the gospel to Jews, but His given mission was preaching to the gentiles, who had no access to God through a levitical priesthood, but were by nature seperated from the promises made to Israel. The gospel itself removes that seperation between Jew and gentile. Paul didn't teach that Christians should avoid contact with sinners, as this would require being removed from the world and would also prevent Christians from accomplishing their mission of preaching the gospel to and making disciples of all men.
Paul also understood that our sanctification is through the grace of God and not by the righteous works of the law. Ritual seperation of clean from unclean is meaningless in the context of grace, however Paul saw a need for church discipline, including seperation of those engaging in willful sin from fellowship, but not with the intent of condemnation, but in the hope of restoration. The goal of discipline in the context of the church has always been repentance and restoration. The ministry of the gospel is a ministry of reconciliation, first to God and then between men.
When I was first saved and began to understand the scripture, I was also troubled by Paul's writings, in that he sometimes struck me as being proud, self righteous, and arrogant. In retrospect, I believe that much of my trouble with Paul is what I saw of myself in his written expression. Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and until I understood the extent of the self righteousness of the Pharisees, I was unable to understand Paul and I was unable to understand myself. Paul met the risen Lord on the road to Damascus and on his way with papers authorizing the arrest of members of the Christian sect. He had a great zeal for God, but one born of ignorance, not understanding God's grace until he experienced it himself.
The Pharisees, desiring to be righteous and demonstrate their righteousness to all, created rules and regulations of their own by the hundreds. They had the problem that if they were honest with themselves they knew that they couldn't satisfy the righteous requirements of the law, so they picked out things which they could do in their carnal nature which gave the appearance of satisfying the law. For example, the law instructs that a person shouldn't boil a kid (of the goats) in it's mothers milk, and while this is a simple and easy instruction to observe, the Pharisees expanded this with additional easy to keep rules, such as not allowing dairy products to come in contact with meat. Modern Jewish orthodoxy is still based largely on such Pharasaical rules and you would notice in some grocery stores with a Jewish clientel, that the baggers have instructions to avoid even placing dairy products in the same bag as meats. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for believing themselves righteous for keeping all such practices, while ignoring the "weightier" matters of the law, such as "justice, mercy, and faith." Jesus taught those under the law that they should observe all things under the law and to obey the priests as they sat in the seat of Moses. Paul was preaching to those who were without law, but the same message of Grace. However, Paul certainly was raised in the context of Pharaseeism and was a sinful man inspite of his self imposed righteousness (prior to abandoning his own righteousness in the light of God's grace.)
When we are saved by faith in Christ and receive Him as Lord and Savior, our spirits, formerly dead in transgression and sin, are made alive again by His Spirit. We receive a new "heavenly nature" in being born again, but still retain a fleshly or worldly nature according to our natural birth. Paul taught about this extensively and of the war that rages between the "flesh" and the "Spirit."
Some people tend to idolize Paul for his monumental accomplishments in establishing the gentile church and for his contribution to the body of Scripture. I believe that Paul gave a true testimony and witness and that his letters were indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit, yet the man was clearly preaching to himself as well as to the church and clearly went through a long process of sanctification through which he suffered many things for the sake of the gospel and through which he was made ever increasingly Christ like. It was Paul the aged that identified himself as the "chief of sinners," and contrary to popular thought the man wasn't made perfect on the Damascus road.
Paul preached salvation by God's grace alone. Jesus taught observance of the law, but also taught that it was impossible for men to enter the kingdom of God based upon their own righteousness. Jesus also plainly taught that salvation was in knowing God, believing Him and the One whom He sent. The expression of these truths were different between Jesus and Paul because of the context in which they were given, yet their meaning is the same.
If you want to compare the behavior of Paul and Jesus, then you need to consider that Jesus came to earth as the Son of God and with a sinless nature, while Paul was born with a fallen (sinful) nature and was the recipient of God's grace the same as anyone who would receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. You're considering men born with opposing natures. Jesus' nature remains the same and unchanging, Paul was given a new nature in opposition to the one he was born with, created by the Spirit of Christ, and given for the purpose of conforming him to the image of God, renewed in Christ. If we have received Him by faith, then it is the likeness of God, expressed in the person of Jesus Christ that we are to be conformed to. God gave us Paul as an example of an imperfect and sinful man being transformed by His grace, so that we could also follow in his example, being born of the same sinful nature, yet being renewed in the image of Christ.
Those that believe in works righteousness will always try to discredit Paul, but this is because they believe themselves already equal to God in their self righteousness, reducing the righteousness of God to that which they can achieve by their own merit. Those same will always make the claim that Jesus was teaching them that they could attain such righteousness by being careful to observe all that Jesus taught, yet Jesus was actually teaching standards which were unobtainable by men, so that we could see our need for Him and His grace. I haven't provided the scriptural texts to prove the things that I've written here. but I'll be happy to produce them if you're prepared to receive them.