Church and Government

[Ruth]

A Church very few people know about right in the heart of D.C. Everyone in the United States needs to see this; Most especially our President, Congress, and Supreme Court Justices. ’Something we were never taught in school; 99 out of 100 people don't know this. ????

http://stg.do/Iwpc

 

[whitestone]

Things have changed a bit eh? This certainly isn't Kansas anymore...

 

[avoice]

Things have changed a bit eh? This certainly isn't Kansas anymore...

Amen to that Whitestone

 

[day]

It is sad to see how far this once great nation has fallen. Maybe with prayer and fasting we can rid our land of unrightousness and disbellief. Trying to do it through politics is sure to fail, because it is not flesh and blood we battle against.

 

[[email protected]]

It is sad to see how far this once great nation has fallen. Maybe with prayer and fasting we can rid our land of unrightousness and disbellief. Trying to do it through politics is sure to fail, because it is not flesh and blood we battle against.

There is a point beyond which events cannot be reversed. America has passed that point.

For fifty years or more the call has gone out to our people and our leaders to turn away from our arrogance and dependence upon economic and military might. A call to turn to God for guidance and blessing instead. We as a people have ignored that call and as a result we have committed ourselves to a path that leads to destruction.

Opponents of conscience resolutely state that the church has no voice in the making of policy. But there's a difference between governmental interference in a man's choice to worship God and that man's Biblically based demand for honesty and integrity in the hearts of lawmakers.

"So long as they concern themselves with their religious problems the State does not concern itself with them. But so soon as they attempt by any means whatsoever-- by letters, Encyclica, or otherwise-- to arrogate to themselves rights which belong to the State alone we shall force them back into their proper spiritual, pastoral activity."
- Adolph Hitler

That quote from one of the most wicked men in history is chillingly familiar today. It echoes among those who have determined to eradicate Christianity and Judaism from the face of the earth. Separation of church and state always accompanies the ascension of tyranny to power.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Strat]

There is a point beyond which events cannot be reversed. America has passed that point.

For fifty years or more the call has gone out to our people and our leaders to turn away from our arrogance and dependence upon economic and military might. A call to turn to God for guidance and blessing instead. We as a people have ignored that call and as a result we have committed ourselves to a path that leads to destruction.

Opponents of conscience resolutely state that the church has no voice in the making of policy. But there's a difference between governmental interference in a man's choice to worship God and that man's Biblically based demand for honesty and integrity in the hearts of lawmakers.

"So long as they concern themselves with their religious problems the State does not concern itself with them. But so soon as they attempt by any means whatsoever-- by letters, Encyclica, or otherwise-- to arrogate to themselves rights which belong to the State alone we shall force them back into their proper spiritual, pastoral activity."
- Adolph Hitler

That quote from one of the most wicked men in history is chillingly familiar today. It echoes among those who have determined to eradicate Christianity and Judaism from the face of the earth. Separation of church and state always accompanies the ascension of tyranny to power.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

The only thing i would add is that mankind was made for worship,he must worship something,they are trying to get rid of some religions and replace them with others like communism,socialism,environmentalism,materialism...and of course America's favorite religion...hedonism....man was made for worhsip and he will worship something.

 

[Stan]

A Church very few people know about right in the heart of D.C. Everyone in the United States needs to see this; Most especially our President, Congress, and Supreme Court Justices. ’Something we were never taught in school; 99 out of 100 people don't know this. ????

http://stg.do/Iwpc

A very eye opening video. Always knew the founding fathers were Christian but this is not something I learned as a Canadian. This would make me want to find out WHY things have gone so far in the other direction in the U.S., if I was a U.S. citizen.

 

[aspen]

I've never understood why some modern Christians are so fixated on the beliefs of their leaders and the people around them. It just wasn't a priority for the early church - all they wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted. I think the Amish are good examples of a people who worship God in according to their beliefs, while accepting the reality of the outside world. Perhaps we could learn something from them.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Good video.

So if the United States of America is founded for God, is what exists today the United States of America?

aspen2,
Your last post is a contradiction. The early church was persecuted and killed at times and in places, and I wouldnt use the word fixation either.

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
Your last post is a contradiction. I wouldnt use the word fixation either.

How so? Why not?

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

How so?

For the reason given

Why not?

because the fixation is on Christ, thats what makes them Christians. 'A serious interest in' would be better.

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
For the reason given
because the fixation is on Christ, thats what makes them Christians. 'A serious interest in' would be better.

There is no contradiction in my post. The early church did not concern itself with the conversion of the leaders of Rome. All they wanted was for the Roman leaders to stop persecuting and killing Christians. If you cannot see the difference between those statements, I cannot help you.

Based on the topics on this board, 'fixation' is quite accurate - although, obsession could work just as well.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Aspen2,

There is no contradiction in my post.

Yes there was, if all they wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted, and they were being persecuted, it must have been a priority for them.
How can something that is all one cares about not be a priority?

The early church did not concern itself with the conversion of the leaders of Rome.

No one said that.

All they wanted was for the Roman leaders to stop persecuting and killing Christians. If you cannot see the difference between those statements, I cannot help you.

If someone had said it them I might address it.

Based on the topics on this board, 'fixation' is quite accurate - although, obsession could work just as well.

Not really. When one is fixed on or obsessed with Christ one cant help to notice what is getting in the way

 

[aspen]

Aspen2,

Yes there was, if all they wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted, and they were being persecuted, it must have been a priority for them.
How can something that is all one cares about not be a priority?
No one said that.
If someone had said it them I might address it.

Not really. When one is fixed on or obsessed with Christ one cant help to notice what is getting in the way

All you are doing is quibbling

Don't you get tired of trying to win cheap points over semantics?

Taking pride in trying to trip other Christians up over minor examples of unclear language is so boring....not sure how it keeps you interested.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,
Its not quibbling, your post is a contradiction, the unclear language is yours. Perhaps you could illustrate from NT scripture how all they wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted? What comes to my mind initially is the NT teaching to expect some persecution and be sure of the hope of Glory.

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
Its not quibbling, your post is a contradiction, the unclear language is yours. Perhaps you could illustrate from NT scripture how all they wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted? What comes to my mind initially is the NT teaching to expect some persecution and be sure of the hope of Glory.

My post is clear and so is your quibbling - it is certainly not the first or the even the second incident - modus operandi

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

My post is clear and so is your quibbling - it is certainly not the first or the even the second incident - modus operandi

I think you need to take a reality check. You seem to be a loggerheads with several posters. Your posts do not directly address points to put to you but respond to them with a tangent, and you end up arguing about your tangents.
It is not quibbling, you have posted stuff that is a contradiction and it is being challenged; if you dont like it I suggest you find another forum

 

[aspen]

aspen2,
I think you need to take a reality check. You seem to be a loggerheads with several posters. Your posts do not directly address points to put to you but respond to them with a tangent, and you end up arguing about your tangents.
It is not quibbling, you have posted stuff that is a contradiction and it is being challenged; if you dont like it I suggest you find another forum

You do not have to respond to me. The fact is, I clarified your misunderstanding about my post - you just don't like it.

The fact is, many of the members of the Early Church did not like being persecuted, tortured or killed - we know this from Eusebius. I have claimed that a conversion of government officials or a replacement of government officials with Christians was not on their minds. The reason it was not on their minds is that there were no Christian nations on Earth at the time, nor had there ever been a Christian nation on Earth. Also, the Christians were expecting Christ to return any minute.

They may have wished that Rome would fall. They may have hoped that Christ set up a new government when He returned. They may have wished that Roman officials would legalize Christianity. They may have wished that the Roman officials would simply stop persecuting and torturing and killing Christians. They may of been hoping that Christianity would be recognized as an exception to the rule of Cesar worship - like Judaism.

As you can see, there are a multitude of ideas that Christians may have been thinking. Rome did not have to be converted to Christianity for the persecution to end. Therefore, both ideas; hoping that persecution would end AND not expecting or even imagining Rome's conversion COULD be true at the same time.

Because they did not live in a Democracy, they did not believe they could elect Christian leadership. Since they lived under the rule of a ruthless dictator, which they referred to as 'The Beast', they did not imagine the Roman government converting to Christianity.

Now, was this really necessary for you to understand the mistake you made by interpreting my post as a contradiction? Certainly not. Your welcome. I accept your apology.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,
Aspen2,

The fact is, many of the members of the Early Church did not like being persecuted, tortured or killed - we know this from Eusebius.

By the early church I meant the NT, Eusebius was 3[sup]rd[/sup] century.
If all the church at the time of Eusebius wanted was to be able to worship God without being killed or persecuted, and they were being persecuted, it must have been a priority for them.

Also, the Christians were expecting Christ to return any minute.

Christians still are.

You seem more interested in Christian history than the faith once delivered through Christ in the NT. Church history is not always following Christ's teaching.

 

[Strat]

Human nature makes persecution neccesary,human nature hides it's motives,it's true loyalties and always likes to be on the side that is currently winning...persecution seperates the men from the boys and the women from the girls and calls them to sacrifice the flesh for the spirit....as usual its people being people that makes being people so hard.