Circumcision and Baptism of the Spirit and Body

[1stCenturyLady]

Well, the Deut 10:16 associates foreskin of the heart with being stiff-necked, so I would expect circumcising it would make us sensitive to the Holy Spirit's prompting - having hearts of flesh rather than calloused, hardened stone hearts. In the New Testament, we find He indwells us.

Our actions would be aligned with being alive from within, rather than dying from within.

Seeing as Jesus is our High Priest and doing the circumcising, what does it say Jesus came to "take away"? That is the circumcision.

 

[Moses_the_younger]

Seeing as Jesus is our High Priest and doing the circumcising, what does it say Jesus came to "take away"? That is the circumcision.

The sins of the world. Note also the passage in Joshua, which I believe was a foreshadowing of this. After Joshua had finished circumcising the Israelites, God said "this day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you." The penalty for uncircumcision - death, or being "cut off" - had been taken away by circumcision, similar to the penalty for sin - death, or being "cut off" from God in Hell - is taken away in Christ, by His sacrifice and imputation of His righteousness.

Joshua 5:3-9
3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
7 And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.
8 And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole.
9 And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The sins of the world. Note also the passage in Joshua, which I believe was a foreshadowing of this. After Joshua had finished circumcising the Israelites, God said "this day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you." The penalty for uncircumcision - death, or being "cut off" - had been taken away by circumcision, similar to the penalty for sin - death, or being "cut off" from God in Hell - is taken away in Christ, by His sacrifice and imputation of His righteousness.

Joshua 5:3-9
3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
7 And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.
8 And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole.
9 And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.

EXCELLENT!!!!!

In our case, Jesus took away our sin too. 1 John 3:4-9. Even the author of sin was taken from us, so take a look at 8 and 9 especially!

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[David in NJ]

What does the circumcision without hands represent? What is cut off?

The foreskin is symbolic of the 'hooded serpent' = by God's Design
thus when we are circumcised in our hearts the 'hood' covering of sin is cut out and cast away forever

Have you ever seen this clear picture of sin over man?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The foreskin is symbolic of the 'hooded serpent' = by God's Design
thus when we are circumcised in our hearts the 'hood' covering of sin is cut out and cast away forever

Have you ever seen this clear picture of sin over man?

No, I've never seen that, but there is a scripture that I think you'll like. What is cut off is SIN. But ALSO the AUTHOR of sin, Satan. They are cut off of our nature. This is why a born again of the Spirit Christian no longer has a sin nature. Our cleansed nature can partake of the divine nature of God! 2 Peter 1:4. I also love 1 John 5:18 that Satan cannot touch me! That is why we can cast out devils.

1 John 3:4-9 (check out verse 8)

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[JunChosen]

To the OP only: Circumcision and Baptism of the Spirit and Body​

Why do Christians take something simple and make them complicated?

In fact, both are ONLY a sign. In the Old Testament, in order to belong to God's people, the sign was circumcision, as per Genesis 17:23-27.

In the New Testament, the same can be seen about the jailer of Philippi who asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

And they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

This is the promise of God on the day He said, "Ye shall be my people and I will be your God." Further reading Ezekiel 36:24-38.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Moses_the_younger]

The foreskin is symbolic of the 'hooded serpent' = by God's Design
thus when we are circumcised in our hearts the 'hood' covering of sin is cut out and cast away forever

Have you ever seen this clear picture of sin over man?

This is interesting. Is there scriptural support for this, or not? I've often wondered why the foreskin was removed, and not something else. I thought it had to do with Adam bringing mankind into sin (rather than Eve), as it's not a part that females are born with (which makes sense for why it's not a toenail or wart or some other useless part removed, which is common to both sexes).

Also the uncleanness, shame and impediment of uncircumcision - a very apt metaphor for what sin does.

I like that this topic is discussed here. I've heard sermons about hard or stony hearts, but none on the cure for uncircumcised hearts. I think the language of scripture is powerful, and calling an uncircumcised heart what it is can really help people realise there is a serious problem.

 

[David in NJ]

This is interesting. Is there scriptural support for this, or not? I've often wondered why the foreskin was removed, and not something else. I thought it had to do with Adam bringing mankind into sin (rather than Eve), as it's not a part that females are born with (which makes sense for why it's not a toenail or wart or some other useless part removed, which is common to both sexes).

Also the uncleanness, shame and impediment of uncircumcision - a very apt metaphor for what sin does.

I like that this topic is discussed here. I've heard sermons about hard or stony hearts, but none on the cure for uncircumcised hearts. I think the language of scripture is powerful, and calling an uncircumcised heart what it is can really help people realise there is a serious problem.

Adam did bring sin to mankind = 1 Cor 15:21

Eve sinned first = 1 Timothy 2:14

Why then male circumcision???

Chicken before the egg principle = God created Adam first and with a foreskin, but not the woman.

Where does this lead our thoughts as we look in the Scriptures?

It leads us to SEEING what God has said in His use of metaphors and direct statements.

The woman is covered/protected by the man = no need of a foreskin.

So a covering can be either GOOD or SIN
Remember the expression: 'I've got you covered' = this is an expression of protection/backup should you fail

Satan covered the hearts of mankind with his sin = Romans 1:21 , Rom 8:5 , 2 Corinthians 4:4 , Ephesians 4:18

CHRIST removes satan's covering via Holy Spirit circumcision of the heart and then HE covers us(protection) with His Grace

As Adam was the covering for Eve, so now is Christ the covering for His Bride
Adam failed but CHRIST gives us the Victory

 

[MatthewG]

The other day, I found this verse here pertaining to the topic of circumcision.

You know Abraham had faith in God before he was ever circumcised. It doesn't amount to anything anymore, being circumcised by the flesh however what I found shows that it is the circumcision of the heart that matters.

Romans 2:25-29

New King James Version

​

Circumcision of No Avail​

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your [a]written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose [b]praise is not from men but from God.

 

[JunChosen]

The other day, I found this verse here pertaining to the topic of circumcision.

Ha-ha-ha-ha!! Are you in the habit of taking other people's comments and making it your own?

Did you somehow got the idea from reading Post #26? OR???

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

@JunChosen

Just been reading romans lately, Romans Road (Readings)

God bless

What does "Romans Road (Reading)" mean. Is this an American saying? Please elaborate.

To God Be The Glory

 

[MatthewG]

What does "Romans Road (Reading)" mean. Is this an American saying? Please elaborate.

To God Be The Glory

Jun,

Its reading all 16 chapters of the Letter Paul wrote to rome. Some coined the term “Going down the Romans Road” Paul has a lot to offer there and his other epsitles.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[JunChosen]

Jun,

Its reading all 16 chapters of the Letter Paul wrote to rome. Some coined the term “Going down the Romans Road” Paul has a lot to offer there and his other epsitles.

All the best,
Matthew

Thanks for clarifying.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Moses_the_younger]

The other day, I found this verse here pertaining to the topic of circumcision.

You know Abraham had faith in God before he was ever circumcised. It doesn't amount to anything anymore, being circumcised by the flesh however what I found shows that it is the circumcision of the heart that matters.

Romans 2:25-29​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

Circumcision of No Avail​

25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your [a]written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose [b]praise is not from men but from God.

I think the point being made was that foreskin represents something, and probably its got something to do with gender, because females don't need it physically (but do need it spiritually). But when we (i.e. males!) get physically circumcised, we don't have to be concerned that the unclean skin will grow back and cause problems - it's gone for good. But if the foreskin of the heart is our sinful nature, why do Christians still sin after their hearts are circumcised? Circumcision is a once-for-all thing - our hearts don't get circumcised routinely (or even daily!) as the uncircumcised growth doesn't start to return. Nor is it a slow process, where the foreskin of the heart is cut off a little at a time - it's all at once.

 

[MatthewG]

Moses,

Those are some great points, never thought about that before.

A question that you asked was Why do Christians still sin after their hearts are circumcised?

It seems it takes some time for babes in Christ to mature.

Paul had to correct the Corinthian brothers, and even other apostles also corrected in the ways that they were going as they would dispute about things, and that was not the way of Christ.

I can not lie and say that I do not have sin, as my mind can come up with sin in it (James), and I will interact by it, however when people are adopted in God's Kingdom, they become babes in Christ, and there flesh is still very much active because they may -

Gossip,
have thoughts of evil,
argue for arguements sake,
have sexually immoral thoughts,
be covetous,
lie,
greedy,
and other things that are mentioned in (Galatians 5)

Once a person realizes these things, and they are following after Christ, and they bury these old habits with Christ, after dying with Christ on the Cross, raising again with Christ - that circumcison takes place and they wont be as driven to do these things as much, though the thoughts can be there they wont interact on the sin, and can bring those thoughts to God and cast though those down in the name of Jesus.

Paul and Apollos, Servants of Christ​

3 Dear brothers and sisters,[a] when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people.[b] I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in Christ. 2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready, 3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world? 4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world?

5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow. 7 It’s not important who does the planting, or who does the watering. What’s important is that God makes the seed grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters work together with the same purpose. And both will be rewarded for their own hard work. 9 For we are both God’s workers. And you are God’s field. You are God’s building.

10 Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.

12 Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

16 Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in[c] you? 17 God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

18 Stop deceiving yourselves. If you think you are wise by this world’s standards, you need to become a fool to be truly wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say,

“He traps the wise
in the snare of their own cleverness.”[d]
20 And again,

“The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise;
he knows they are worthless.”[e]
21 So don’t boast about following a particular human leader. For everything belongs to you— 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Peter,[f] or the world, or life and death, or the present and the future. Everything belongs to you, 23 and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.​

Just some thoughts on the matters, and hope to share the truth on the matters with you.

All the best,
Matthew