Co-resurrections

[Hezekiah]

Since David is said to still be in his grave and since Paul says we do not gather together unto the Lord until the Second Advent, and since the Christ himself stated that no one had ascended unto heaven except for himself, then those that rose and went into Jerusalem had to have risen as Lazarus did. These simply must have been raised as flesh and blood and not as spirit since Christ is the only one to have ever been raised from the dead as spirit. The wheat and the tares have not been gathered yet. The resurrection of the dead when the dead rise from their graves and when the sea gives up its dead have not happened yet. At that time, the dead in Christ will rise first and be raised in spirit form as was the Christ.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

At His coming. The Second Advent. Not before. These old saints will be raised at His coming. No one except the Christ has yet been raised in spirit.

Led captivity captive: Until Christ died and was raised from the dead in spirit form, the grave held all mankind captive. There was no escape from the grave. Had Christ not came and died and was raised, then all mankind would have spent eternity in their graves. Through the resurrection of Christ, we have hope in our own resurrection.

The gift Christ gave to men was that hope.

 

[Angelina]

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote

Until Christ died and was raised from the dead in spirit form, the grave held all mankind captive.

He did not rise in spirit form, you are incorrect

Luke 24
[sup]36 [/sup]Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” [sup]37 [/sup]But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. [sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[sup]41 [/sup]But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” [sup]42 [/sup]So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. [sup]43 [/sup]And He took it and ate in their presence.


Shalom :)

 

[MTPockets]

Hi MT!
The O/Pr was inquiring if anyone knew who the saints were...who arose after Christ's resurrection in Matthew 27:50-53 ^_^

Oh, thank you very much, 'Angelina', for the response. Much appreciated.
This will surely be a very intriguing and enlightening subject/Thread to follow because it addresses the matter of Hades, the realm of the dead.

 

[John_8:32]

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form

They didn't...

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote


He did not rise in spirit form, you are incorrect

Luke 24
[sup]36 [/sup]Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” [sup]37 [/sup]But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. [sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[sup]41 [/sup]But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” [sup]42 [/sup]So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. [sup]43 [/sup]And He took it and ate in their presence.


Shalom :)/>

The other issue with this is (and this opens a whole new can of worms) that no one EVER GOES TO HEAVEN.

Joh 7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
Joh 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Now this last comment was made to the twelve who became Apostles. Where Christ went, they could not come. The reward of the saved is not Heaven. Christ returns to earth and the righteous are given rulership here on the earth for the Millenium...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Where is Christ?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

How many enemies do you suppose He has to subjugate in Heaven? NONE. He will reign on the earth...

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Then after the Millenium and the Great White Throne Judgment, do we go to Heaven with Christ?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The Father, Himself, comes down from Heaven and brings New Jerusalem to earth. We do not go there, God comes here.

 

[Trekson]

John, Your verses: Joh 7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
Joh 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Christ was speaking they "couldn't come" because they were still in their earthly bodies. He certainly isn't implying, they will never go, just that they couldn't go at the same time He did or else His promise in John 14: 1-4 is meaningless. The earth is not for the church but reserved for the righteous remnant of Israel and those who survive the sheep and goat judgment of Matt. 25.

 

[Angelina]

My quote:

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote:

They didn't...
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Please note:
2 Kings 2
2 And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Then Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here, please, for the Lord has sent me on to Bethel.”

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took [H3947 - laqach] him.
H3947 lâqach - took
A primitive root; to take (in the widest variety of applications): - accept, bring, buy, carry away, drawn, fetch, get, infold, X many, mingle, place, receive (-ing), reserve, seize, send for, take (away, -ing, up), use, win.

note also:
Matthew 8
10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

Shalom!!!

 

[John_8:32]

Please note:
2 Kings 2
2 And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Then Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here, please, for the Lord has sent me on to Bethel.”

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took [H3947 - laqach] him.
H3947 lâqach - took
A primitive root; to take (in the widest variety of applications): - accept, bring, buy, carry away, drawn, fetch, get, infold, X many, mingle, place, receive (-ing), reserve, seize, send for, take (away, -ing, up), use, win.

Shalom!!!

Ah, so being taken up into the heavens contradicts what Jesus Christ said? Not at all...

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

do you know of any birds that fly above 30,000 ft? There are three heavens, the heavens birds fly in (the atmosphere, see above), the hevens where there are stars and planets...

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

And of course the Heaven where the throne of God is...

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Now since Enoch and Elijah were taken up into a heaven, which one did they go into? The heaven where the sun, moon and stars are? The Heaven where God is? or were they transported to another place on earth through the atmosphere?

The third one is the only choice. I'll post more on this later, but remember that Elijah wrote a letter and sent it almost 10 years after his being taken up in a fiery chariot.

 

[Angelina]

Ah, so being taken up into the heavens contradicts what Jesus Christ said? Not at all...

I did not say that at all...but merely reiterating what scripture says.

...You're saying that Enoch, Elijah and also Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not go to heaven but were transported to another place on earth through the atmosphere... :huh: You better have scripture to back that baby up John...because Matt 8 clearly states that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were in the "Kingdom of Heaven".

 

[Hezekiah]

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote


He did not rise in spirit form, you are incorrect

Luke 24
[sup]36 [/sup]Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” [sup]37 [/sup]But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. [sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[sup]41 [/sup]But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” [sup]42 [/sup]So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. [sup]43 [/sup]And He took it and ate in their presence.


Shalom :)

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote


He did not rise in spirit form, you are incorrect

Luke 24
[sup]36 [/sup]Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” [sup]37 [/sup]But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. [sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[sup]41 [/sup]But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” [sup]42 [/sup]So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. [sup]43 [/sup]And He took it and ate in their presence.


Shalom :)

If Christ was not resurrected in spirit, then he is not the firstfruits. The firstfruits would be Lazarus or the woman's daughter.
Were Christ not spirit, he could not see the kingdom:
1Co_15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:35

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37

And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38

But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:39

All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43

It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
The Lord from heaven was raised a spiritual body according to Paul.

I don't believe that at all...otherwise Enoch who and Elijah would not have gone into heaven in bodily form....Those who died in Christ, IMHO are not the same as those who were awaiting Christ's redemption. It seems that God himself allowed these thing to happen..

your quote


He did not rise in spirit form, you are incorrect

Luke 24
[sup]36 [/sup]Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” [sup]37 [/sup]But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. [sup]38 [/sup]And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? [sup]39 [/sup]Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
[sup]40 [/sup]When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.[sup]41 [/sup]But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” [sup]42 [/sup]So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. [sup]43 [/sup]And He took it and ate in their presence.


Shalom :)

Elijah was taken up to the first heaven and flown away to safety to keep the king from killing him. I believe he was taken to Mount Sainai.
Anyhow, he wrote a letter to the king a full ten years after he was taken up. It wasn't postmarked :Heaven" either.

The Lord said no man had ascended except He himself. I will believe him. He should know.

 

[Angelina]

If Christ was not resurrected in spirit, then he is not the firstfruits. The firstfruits would be Lazarus or the woman's daughter.
Were Christ not spirit, he could not see the kingdom:

The firstfruits could not be Lazarus or Jairus because Jesus had not died yet...

your quote:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I agree but Jesus was not an ordinary person. He was sinless.

1Co 15:38

But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

This is no ordinary seed...

He rose from the from the dead, in bodily form Luke 24:39 but he was in spirit when he descended into the deeper parts of the earth 1 Peter 3:18, 19

Elijah was taken up to the first heaven and flown away to safety to keep the king from killing him. I believe he was taken to Mount Sainai.
Anyhow, he wrote a letter to the king a full ten years after he was taken up. It wasn't postmarked :Heaven" either.

Where does it say that in the bible??? :huh:


Blessings!!!

 

[rockytopva]

Jesus Christ comes as a thief. Some of you guys are searing your fellowman's conscience as if it were all a myth. This is in my view a terrible thing to do!

[sup] [/sup]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. - 2 Peter 3:3-4

 

[John_8:32]

I did not say that at all...but merely reiterating what scripture says.

...You're saying that Enoch, Elijah and also Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not go to heaven but were transported to another place on earth through the atmosphere... :huh:/> You better have scripture to back that baby up John...because Matt 8 clearly states that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were in the "Kingdom of Heaven".

The very scripture you quoted shows that...

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Notice the tense? Future tense. Has not occurred yet and will not occur until the resurrection...

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

Notice when? In the day of judgment at the resurrection...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christ first, then those who are Christ's AT HIS COMING.

From the Diaglott...

Matthew 8:11 I say but to you, that many from east and west will come, and will lie down with
Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens.
Matthew 8:12 The but sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the darkness the outer; there will
be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

The Diaglott shows this to be a future event.

Here is areal problem for you if you believe any have been raised form the dead prior to Christ and are now in heaven...

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now if Christ is not the firstborn, we have two major problems...

1) He does not have the preeminence in all things.
2) The Bible is in error and we cannot trust any of it.

Point #1 disqualifies Christ as the author or pioneer of their salvation...


New International Version (©1984)
In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

New Living Translation (©2007)
God, for whom and through whom everything was made, chose to bring many children into glory. And it was only right that he should make Jesus, through his suffering, a perfect leader, fit to bring them into their salvation.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.

International Standard Version (©2008)
It was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering as part of his plan to glorify many children,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
For it was fitting for him by whom are all things and for whom are all things, and bringing many children into the glory, that The Prince of their life would perfect himself by his suffering.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
God is the one for whom and through whom everything exists. Therefore, while God was bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was the right time to bring Jesus, the source of their salvation, to the end of his work through suffering.

American Standard Version
For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, who had brought many children into glory, to perfect the author of their salvation, by his passion.

Darby Bible Translation
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make perfect the leader of their salvation through sufferings.

English Revised Version
For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Weymouth New Testament
For it was fitting that He for whom, and through whom, all things exist, after He had brought many sons to glory, should perfect by suffering the Prince Leader who had saved them.

World English Bible
For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Young's Literal Translation
For it was becoming to Him, because of whom are the all things, and through whom are the all things, many sons to glory bringing, the author of their salvation through sufferings to make perfect,


And if #2 above is true, there is no sense reading the Bible, we may as well read Slaughter House Five.

 

[Angelina]

Uhuh! now tell me about the "Elijah didn't go to heaven but was transported through the atmosphere to another place by Chariots of fire." [but not the Kingdom of Heaven]

Thanks

 

[Hezekiah]

John_8:32,

I am going to shut my own mouth and just read your posts. You've got it together. God bless.

 

[MTPockets]

Uhuh! now tell me about the "Elijah didn't go to heaven but was transported through the atmosphere to another place by Chariots of fire." [but not the Kingdom of Heaven]

Thanks

Hi! 'Angelina'
Ummm, I have a question for you ... well, everyone, ... I guess.
Admittedly, I know that some of my scriptural thinking might be viewed by some here as somewhat skewed. That's not a problem for me because it's never my intent to steal away the thoughts which people are confident with. I simply wish to participate by expressing my own view of things and let everyone choose to quietly agree with them or not agree with them.
My question please:
It seems to me that this discussion needs some clarification about the scripture saying, "I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades", (Rev 1:18). It's very possible that if the contributors to this Thread had better insight concerning Sheol and Hades that they would be able to obtain greater understanding of Matt 27:52-53 .
So, do you think anyone might be interested that I should perhaps offer to this Thread some ideas concerning the "keys of Death and Hades"?

 

[John_8:32]

2Ki 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

So Elijah was taken up into the heaven. Did he go to the heaven of God’s throne? Jesus Christ says no…

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

If he did not go to Heaven where god’s throne is, where did he go? To answer this, we have to first understand how many heavens there are…

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Thanks to Paul we know there are three. What are they? There is the Heaven of God’s throne…

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Oh, now this is interesting, there is a Temple in Heaven and in that Temple is the heavenly Ark.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

So the Tabernacle of Moses was an EXACT copy of the Temple in Heaven right down to the fact that there was a High Priest. The High Priest was the type of Jesus Christ.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Now remember Moses’ tabernacle was an EXACT copy with a High Priest. Could just anyone enter the Holy of Holies where the Mercy Seat (the very type of the throne of God) was?

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Hmmm, Aaron the High Priest, the earthly type of Jesus Christ was the only one allowed in the presence of the throne of God (the Mercy Seat on top of the Ark) and that was only once a year. The Day of Atonement. Christ is the only one allowed in the Heavenly Throne room and that is to make Atonement for us with His blood instead of the blood of bulls and goats.

A great deal of symbolism here that one should do some serious study on.

There is another heaven…

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The heaven in which we find the Sun, Moon and stars as well as other suns, planets, asteroids, solar systems and galaxies.

Then there is the heaven we call the atmosphere…

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Rain falls from clouds in the atmosphere.

Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

So we see there are three heavens.

So, which one for Elijah?

2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

A whirlwind can only occur where there is air. The air of the heaven we call the atmosphere. Why did God take Elijah? To take him to his reward? Can’t be…

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They all died in the faith without receiving the promises. What promises?

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Anyone here believe that might be Washington D.C.? How about New York city? Didn’t think so. What is being referred to here is the New Jerusalem…

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

But Elijah, just like everyone else, has not received that promise yet…

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Well then, where did he go? Well, let’s look at this. First of all is this the first time this happened to Elijah? Nope…

1Ki 18:7 And as Obadiah was in the way, behold, Elijah met him: and he knew him, and fell on his face, and said, Art thou that my lord Elijah?
1Ki 18:8 And he answered him, I am: go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
1Ki 18:9 And he said, What have I sinned, that thou wouldest deliver thy servant into the hand of Ahab, to slay me?
1Ki 18:10 As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not.
1Ki 18:11 And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here.
1Ki 18:12 And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth.

Elijah was famous for disappearing and reappearing somewhere else. This explains what we find later on in 2 Kings 2…

2Ki 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.
2Ki 2:16 And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.
2Ki 2:17 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.
2Ki 2:18 And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

They wen t three days looking for Elijah expecting to find him somewhere else. This was a common occurrence for Elijah.

Now why was Elijah taken?

2Ki 1:17 So he died according to the word of the LORD which Elijah had spoken. And Jehoram reigned in his stead in the second year of Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat king of Judah; because he had no son.
2Ki 3:1 Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years.

The king died and Jehoram became king in his place. God’s plan was to use Elisha to deal with Jehoram and since God never, ever replaces a righteous leader with another and embarrasses a man who has served God wholeheartedly, He removed Elijah from that area and used him in another location. How do we know that he was in another location?

2Ch 21:12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
2Ch 21:13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
2Ch 21:14 Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:
2Ch 21:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

The catching up of Elijah was in 852 BC, this king was Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat. (Different Jehoram than the one mentioned in 2 Kings 2 as the son of Ahab), Jehoram began to reign in 848 BC. Jehoram reigned 8 years...

2Ch 21:5 Jehoram was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.

Now this letter from Elijah came at least 8 years after King Jehoram began to reign. So Elijah wrote this letter somewhere about 8 to 10 years after being transported.

Just for fun, do you think this has ever happened to anyone else?

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

Here is the account of another servant of God being transported. He disappeared from the eunuch’s view and reappeared in Azotus.

Now, show me how you can justify the contradictions of someone being in Heaven and the clear statements that no one goes there…

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Joh 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And where will Christ be at His return?

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[Angelina]

Hi MT!

It seems to me that this discussion needs some clarification about the scripture saying, "I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades", (Rev 1:18). It's very possible that if the contributors to this Thread had better insight concerning Sheol and Hades that they would be able to obtain greater understanding of Matt 27:52-53 .
So, do you think anyone might be interested that I should perhaps offer to this Thread some ideas concerning the "keys of Death and Hades"?

Sure...I think it would be great if you could give your understanding of the "Keys" but I would suggest that you perhaps create another topic as this one is focused on "co-resurrections. ^_^

Hi John,
I see that you and Hez are from the same denomination...that's fine. You will need to excuse me as I do not have much time to spend reading reams of information at once and I tend to get distracted easily if it is not broken up a little anyway. I will get back to you when I am able to

Bless ya!!!

 

[John_8:32]

Hi MT!


Sure...I think it would be great if you could give your understanding of the "Keys" but I would suggest that you perhaps create another topic as this one is focused on "co-resurrections. ^_^/>

Hi John,
I see that you and Hez are from the same denomination...that's fine. You will need to excuse me as I do not have much time to spend reading reams of information at once and I tend to get distracted easily if it is not broken up a little anyway. I will get back to you when I am able to

Bless ya!!!

Sorry, but I do not know Hezekiah and am pretty sure we are not from the same denomination. I grew up in the great deception known as the Methodist Church. I now attend CoGWA, if anyone recognizes that.

 

[Angelina]

I love the Methodist Church. I had some dealings with the "Primitive Methodist Church. They were awesome people of God! I do not recognize your Church initials at all... :huh: is it new?

 

[John_8:32]

I love the Methodist Church. I had some dealings with the "Primitive Methodist Church. They were awesome people of God! I do not recognize your Church initials at all... :huh:/> is it new?

Well, we believe it has been around for about 1981 years.