Are you saying that you think that the battle of Armageddon is the same as the battle where various nations invade Israel in Eze 38 - 39?
Daniel 11 What verse does the end time kick in?
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I do not see that happening. Once they receive Jesus He destroys their enemies, protects and restores them etc. That does not happen in the last seven years.
Right, so that is not IN the tribulation. Otherwise no one would be attacking them.
So you place the invasion attempt by Turkey and other nations of Israel at the start of the seven years.
I guess you figure that they will be burning the weapons of war for that seven years from the fallen of that battle.
It seems odd that right after mentioning how right after the birds have their great supper we see that He is on earth. You have that battle seven years earlier.
Ezekiel 39:20
Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God .
Ezekiel 39:21
And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Right before the start of the seven years.
The destruction of Gog's army is followed by the seven years of Ezekiel 39:9.
yes.
There are actually birds also feasting on the dead bodies of Gog's armies in Ezekiel 39:4. When Gog's army attacks Israel.
Then after the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 are at their end, the feast of Ezekiel 39:17-20 takes place when Jesus executes judgment on the heathen, gathered at Armageddon to make war on him and his army of heaven in Ezekiel 39:21.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
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So there are two big battles in Ezekiel 39. The first, that of the Gog/Magog attack on Israel. Then 7 years later, the kings of the earth and their armies (called the heathen) attempt to make war on Jesus and his army of heaven.
Ezekiel 39 is one of the most informative chapters in the bible about the end times. But, sadly, not many people study or go through it to make the connections. I think you have done yourself a big service in going through it with me.
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So two feasts, then.
Ezekiel 38:20
So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
In the time of the attack we see that mountains will be levelled by a great quake and every wall (therefore buildings) will come down. With your timing all that happens before the seven years even start. Is that correct? Also it says they will fall in 'the open field' Are you saying that is the valley of Megiddo where the battle of Armageddon also happens?
Then there is the matter of your claim that Israel gets saved early in the seven years or before. That would mean that even after getting saved, more than 2/3 of them are allowed to be killed by the final evil regime. It would also mean that the saved nation would have to suddenly flee to remain alive etc.
It also would mean that the other passages that talk about the great feast for the birds that refer to Armageddon are all talking of a different feast. Yet where are two feasts ever mentioned?
Where are 2 great shakings ever mentioned?
How is it that right after the battle of God we see the prophesy talking about after Jesus already returned?
See above. Where are separated feasts for the birds mentioned?
Revelation 19:17
Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to a all the birds that fly directly overhead, b“Come, gather for c the great supper of God,
We see that a cross reference for the great supper of God spoken about here goes to Eze 39. If you were correct, that would be wrong. (esv.org and many bible versions)
See above about the great shaking and feast of birds etc.
Yes, a great earthquake in Ezekiel 38:20. Yes, before the 7 years start.
No, I stated that the Jews will turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years, after a bad experience of thinking the Antichrist person is their messiah for most of the first half of the 7 years.
Before the 7 years begin is the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39. The dead of Gog's army will be feasted upon by the birds in Ezekiel 39:4, it says. The Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is not in Revelation. Although at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus, the same nations making up Gog and Magog will be a part of the one last rebellion in Revelation 20:8.
As I pointed out, the two feasts on dead bodies is....
1. On Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4.
2. Then 7 years later, the feast on the kings of the earth (called the heathen) in Ezekiel 39:17-20 on the day of Jesus's return. Ezekiel 39:17-20 can be cross referenced to Revelation 19:17-18.
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Have you any other basis for the claim? In what way is a great shaking (noted event of the very end) that levels mountains and all walls etc not mentioned anywhere else if it is a different event?
Nevertheless, you still have a nation of saved people in your scenario NOT being protected and restored etc by God. Instead they are mass murdered and criminal refugees. That does not sound like the time when all Israel gets saved to me.
In your scenario it isn't. Now if that was a part of or merged with the Armageddon battle, then it would be.
Since it doesn't specify any nations involved in surrounding a camp of saints what is the basis for that claim?
It is also referenced elsewhere. You seem to be claiming that every other place in the bible that the feast of the birds or the great shaking happens is mentioned is talking about something else than your scenario of the Gog war
In Ezekiel 39:9, Israel burns the weapons of war of Gog's army for 7 years.
Ezekiel 39:
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
No, the Gog/Magog event is not the Armageddon event. The Armageddon event will take place at the height of the great tribulation, a time of extreme stress.
Differently, Gog/Magog will take place when Israel is living in a state of relative peace. Ezekiel 38:8-11
I know, but that is not support for either the great shaking or the feast of the birds being duo events. In fact there is no relation.
We shall see. So far you claim duo mountain crumbling and tower destroying earthquake events as well as duo bird feasting in a great supper events and have not offered a scintilla of evidence. We wait
This is not really a thread to make parroting baseless claims. Rather it is a chance for you to offer Scriptural support for your oft repeated claims.
Do we know that there also will not be relative peace in the end of the seven years for that nation? Once again you would need to prove that the only time there could be any sort of supposed peace there would be just before the seven year period when you claim the Gog war happens.
Israel living in peace during the great tribulation ? Are you serious ?
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
You were asked a question. That is whether before the last seven years is the only possible time there could be 'peace' in much of the world or not. A proper reply would be yes or no and an explanation why. Not pretending I stated a position. If you are claiming the world government will not actually be governing and in control or something, then explain? If they are in control then explain why nations would still be in war and chaos? Explain why the only time when they could say peace and safety is before the world government takes power?
Then there is the issue of what 'sudden destruction' is being talked about. Does that refer to His return and destruction of the wicked? Or do you say it must refer only to something else? If so...why?
Right, the Tribulation is a bad time. The days are numbered for that period. This need not mean that all nations on earth could not have some sort of peace. In fact the bible says this
If you want to know what the last days looks like then just look around you. This is it , came in as the natural course of events , still a little time to go before the end but all the ground work has been laid and it's just down hill from here. Enjoy the ride, you will get to see it all.
Because you brought up the leader of the final world government over and over. Are you now claiming all the world will not worship the beast and take his mark?? Ha
Where did you or I state there was or was not? Oh, right, that would be you stating that the only window for peace would be before the seven years. Support your stuff. There will be no real peace on earth anytime until the Prince of peace comes. Before or during the last seven years. However, the false peace associated with the vile king in the end will exist. Your claim is that it will not exist since the guy is not even in power before the seven years when you claim the peace will exist.
No, I have not. You are the one bringing up world government. I stated that the beast-king will be dictator of the EU. It is on my chart.
You are twisting what I wrote. I wrote that at the time Gog/Magog attacks Israel, Israel will be living in a relative state of peace as it says in Ezekiel 38:8-11.
Also, you never refer to any specific bible passages in your posts. Start including what specific bible passage(s) you are referring to.
And type out a timeline of when Gog/Magog takes place relative to the 7 years. Here's mine...
Gog/Magog......... then the 7 years...........then Armageddon at Jesus's return.
So he will not be worshipped by the whole world or cause all people in the world to receive his little euro mark?
And you were asked if that was the only possible time some 'relative peace' could exist in the last several years or not.
so -?
You see when you try to place an event in a pinpointed time, and there are scriptures all over that seem to describe the same great shaking and bird feast, it is up to you to PROVE that it HAS to be restricted to the other time and event that seems not to be mentioned anywhere else.
I don't know!
That was easy. You should try it sometime.
I am leaning towards thinking it seems to be in the very end and blends in with the battle of Armageddon.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Nah, what I see as one-sided is your LEFTIST-SOCIALIST opinion, because the nations have IMPOSED their OWN BRAND OF TARIFFS against the United States via the evil LEFTIST lobby payollas to pass the WICKED FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS that HURT the U.S. economy!
And now today, the world is looking at a Red Communist Chinese military that claims it will eventually war with The United States, all because of those WICKED FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS with Red China! and with other Communist nations that have built up their economies, AND their militaries!
Who in the U.S. would be behind those free trade agreements, sending American manufacturing overseas to Red China and other Communist nations, like Vietnam, Cuba, etc., and thus WEAKENING the U.S. economy and its STRATEGIC STRENGTH. I even recall in the '80's when the free trade agreements were being proposed that it would send American manufacturing jobs overseas to help develop the poorer nations, and the LIE that it would NOT affect the U.S. economy, because the U.S. would then become a type of administration, computer driven control state. In reality, it meant foreign nations TAKING CONTROL OF THE U.S. ECONOMY with our being FORCED to buy needed goods only from those nations, and at THEIR PRICES! Anyone with just half a brain could see the ILLEGAL erosion of U.S. sovereignty within that.
OK. I am not really all that informed on tariff world financial matters. I do know an ignorant lying bully when I see one though. Nothing to do with 'left' or 'right' Those are two sides of a coin that is more or less the same it seems. Did wars stop when a leader on the left or right was in? No. Did truth suddenly start to be told? No. Etc. Basically Tweedly dee and Tweedly dum. Do people on the 'right' want the Gaza genocide and terror to continue? Probably not for the most part. Do they want the Epstein information released totally right now? Yes. Etc.
I am not sure we can blame all distaste for the USA on trade agreements actually.
The same might be said of most nations on earth. That is no excuse to break your word, bomb people, and bully etc. In all your trying to fix your own house, remember that getting along with and respecting neighbours is also important.
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