Daniel and Revelation show the same time period.

[Hobie]

We see in Daniel 2 how it shows four world empires, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by God’s establishing His eternal kingdom
Daniel 2:27-45
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

We see in verse 44, "shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." The parallel prophecies in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 contain this same basic outline, that of these worldly empires arising and vanishing until God’s kingdom is forever established.

 

[Hobie]

Then we look in Revelation 17:
Revelation 17:1-14
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Now consider carefully the 5 that are fallen.
1. Babylon
2. Medo Persia
3. Grecia
4. Pagan Rome .
5. Papal Rome. We see in Revelation 13 this beast as a conglomerate or diverse beast which has all characteristics of the above listed beasts. And is given its power by the red dragon.
Revelation 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Therefore this is the 5th kingdom. And it reigns for 1260 days until the crowns are taken. It has 10 crowns until it falls.

At which point the deadly wound occurs. The power is taken from this 5th Kingdom which ruled the world for 1260 years during the dark ages. The rule of the Papacy ended in 1798 exactly 1260 years after the destruction of the Ostrogoths and the implementation of the Justinian decree in 538AD. Pope Pius vi was taken captive by General Berthier of France. The destruction of the Papacy was thought to be sure when there were more than 1000 priests murdered at that day. This is well known as the deadly wound to the Papacy which is mentioned in Revelation 13.

At the time of the Pope going into captivity we see another beast rising out of the earth. Beast with two horns

Revelation 13:10-12
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one. -Encyclopedia Britannica 1941 edition. Right around the time that the Pope Pius was taken captive, we see another beast coming up out of the earth with 2 horns. No crowns on these horns. This beast was representative of America....

So the time when 5 are fallen is therefore when there is no monarchy or one world Kingdom reigning the earth as in the past.

1. Lion - Babylon
2. Bear - Medo Persia
3. Leopard - Greece
4. Dragon - Pagan Rome
5. Diverse Beast - Papal Rome Got power from Dragon.

'One is' as John is looking from the end time of the 5th Beast when it got its wound and appeared to be fatal, 1798.

6. America..(Sixth) Beast.. Not a monarchy...No Crowns

So the next one is " is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

7. New World Order... we shall see...

And then we see the one that was and seemed to be fatally wounded and yet is again, and will go into perdition at the end, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

8. Resurgent Papal Rome which goes until the end, and is burned in the hour of judgement, Babylon, with all the world lamenting her destruction.

Revelation 18:1-11
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

 

[ewq1938]

Differences between Daniel's prophecies and what Revelation says:

Daniel wrote that the first 3 beasts live past the 4th beast's destruction. This doesn't happen in Revelation.

Daniel wrote that 3 horns are removed/plucked up from the 10 horned beast but in Revelation no horns are removed.

The beast is killed before being given to flame in Daniel but in Revelation 19 the beast is alive when cast into the lake of fire.

In Daniel the little horn is not a second beast but is part of the 4th beast. In Revelation there isn't just one beast, there are two. The False Prophet is not one of the heads or horns of the first beast but is a separate and different beast with it's own two horns.

In Daniel the 4th beast at one point has 11 horns. In Revelation the first beast of chapter 13 never has an 11th horn.

 

[Korben Dallas]

Hobie. Is there any chance you were on Theology Web back in the day?

 

[Wish-it]

We see in Daniel 2 how it shows four world empires, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by God’s establishing His eternal kingdom
Daniel 2:27-45
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

We see in verse 44, "shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever." The parallel prophecies in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 contain this same basic outline, that of these worldly empires arising and vanishing until God’s kingdom is forever established.

If it's Rome then how does the Lords coming crush all those kingdoms. Weren't they crushed 1000's of years ago. Thinking prophecy not history means we may hear what God is saying to us now, rather than to a generation in the long lost past.

 

[ewq1938]

If it's Rome then how does the Lords coming crush all those kingdoms. Weren't they crushed 1000's of years ago. Thinking prophecy not history means we may hear what God is saying to us now, rather than to a generation in the long lost past.

I hav3e point this out as well, but no one has an answer. Clearly the 4th beast was not Rome since as you mentioned the 4th beast was destroyed by a coming of God and a judgment, plus the first 3 beasts survive past the death of the 4th.

 

[Wish-it]

I hav3e point this out as well, but no one has an answer. Clearly the 4th beast was not Rome since as you mentioned the 4th beast was destroyed by a coming of God and a judgment, plus the first 3 beasts survive past the death of the 4th.

The fourth beast must be seen in the origins of scripture, the first five books. I see it clearly explained in the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Then the birth of Jacob and Esau, fighting in the womb, and their blessings in Gen 27.27+ and Gen 27. 39,40. Ishmaels blessing in Gen 16.11,12. There is the pattern for scripture. Currently I'd say we are at Gen 27.40 the older will serve the younger, but when he grows restless he will throw off his yoke. Similar to Ishmael, he will live in hostility towards his brothers.
Obadiah also adds to it as does Jer 49.7+,
Malachi 1.
The brothers of Isaac and Jacob are Ishmael and Esau. The older will serve the younger. Israel is surrounded by the descendants of his brothers. Zech 12.2,3 I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling.
So it won't be Rome. Its not a relative of Abraham. Read Dan 2, 7,8, and 11 as prophecy not history.

 

[Wish-it]

I hav3e point this out as well, but no one has an answer. Clearly the 4th beast was not Rome since as you mentioned the 4th beast was destroyed by a coming of God and a judgment, plus the first 3 beasts survive past the death of the 4th.

Which verse are you referring to in Daniel re the 3 beasts survive etc.

 

[Marty fox]

If it's Rome then how does the Lords coming crush all those kingdoms. Weren't they crushed 1000's of years ago. Thinking prophecy not history means we may hear what God is saying to us now, rather than to a generation in the long lost past.

Yes exactly

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which verse are you referring to in Daniel re the 3 beasts survive etc.

I'm sure he's talking about Daniel 7:12, but that's a parenthetical verse and is not talking about the first 3 beasts surviving after the fourth beast. They are successive historical kingdoms, so it makes no sense to interpret the verse that way.

 

[Korben Dallas]

I hav3e point this out as well, but no one has an answer. Clearly the 4th beast was not Rome since as you mentioned the 4th beast was destroyed by a coming of God and a judgment, plus the first 3 beasts survive past the death of the 4th.

I have been reading the late Dr. Heiser lately and coming to understand that there is more to the spiritual world that I was taught or recognized. For example, there are spiritual powers or entities which represent or stand for, say, a country. This is described in Daniel 10:13 where the man in Daniel's vision is assisted by Michael, one of the chief princes, against the prince of the kingdom of Persia and then the prince of Grecia.

One basis of dispensationalism is that Jesus failed in his mission to establish his kingdom and must return to finish the job. This is such an unsatisfactory position that almost all other approaches to eschatology become palatable.

Which verse are you referring to in Daniel re the 3 beasts survive etc.

S.I. mentioned Dan 7:12. The idea that the kings/kingdoms persisted might also come from Nebuchadnezzar's vision where the statue consisting of the previous kingdoms is destroyed in its feet. Also it is interesting that in Daniel's vision of the 4 beasts, there is no description of the beasts destruction until the 4th beast is destroyed.

The transitions between Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece, and Rome were largely bloodless, at least in terms of the survival of 99% of the populace and property, and even language and culture. Rome was in fact the most accommodating to the cultures of the provincials which is consistent with it's representation as being clay mixed with iron.

It is not a huge stretch that some aspect of the previous kingdom is represented as persisting, even when the historical kingdom itself was ended. At any rate the problem is the same for everyone whether you believe the 4th kingdom is Rome or any other. How many times do I have to deal with dispensationalists trying to make the obtuse case that Rome still exists?

 

[ewq1938]

One basis of dispensationalism is that Jesus failed in his mission to establish his kingdom and must return to finish the job.

He didn't fail. He said he was going to come back to finish everything and this is a Christian belief not only dispensationalism.

 

[ewq1938]

Which verse are you referring to in Daniel re the 3 beasts survive etc.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He didn't fail. He said he was going to come back to finish everything and this is a Christian belief not only dispensationalism.

What does this mean? Are you saying you don't think He finished what He came to do at His first coming?

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

 

[CTK]

If it's Rome then how does the Lords coming crush all those kingdoms. Weren't they crushed 1000's of years ago. Thinking prophecy not history means we may hear what God is saying to us now, rather than to a generation in the long lost past.

That is indeed a terrific question. And you are absolutely rigth - In Daniel 2:34, we find the Stone (Messiah) would strike the feet (not the toes) of the 4th beast kingdom. This is pagan Rome which is made of iron (not iron and clay, but pure iron). However, God has inserted another symbol WITHIN the iron feet of pagan Rome. Each of the 4 metal kingdoms in chapter 2 are pure metals. The clay is included within the feet of iron because they represent the Jewish nation / people. Israel, at the time of the coming of the Messiah was under Roman control, hence, they were encased or contained within the iron kingdom. So 2:34 represents the Messiah's first coming where He separates (symbolically) the clay from within the iron. And if you were to study verses 2:41-43, they will tell you the consequences of this "breaking apart" of these two elements. Now, verse 2:35 does indeed come right after 2:34, but that does not mean they refer to the same period of time or the same event. Verse 2:35 occurs some 2000 years later, and still counting, when He will return. If you continue to read the entire verse in 2:35, you will find it speaks of the crushing of the now 5 separated elements with the clay now inserted in the middle of the 4 metals. And this crushing will take place at the time of the harvest. Jesus did not come at the time of the harves, but He will return to gather the wheat from the tares.

So once again, verses 2:41-43 provide us with what happens AFTER the Stone separates the iron from the clay (Jews from pagan Rome). These 3 verses are extremely difficult to unpack...

 

[CTK]

I hav3e point this out as well, but no one has an answer. Clearly the 4th beast was not Rome since as you mentioned the 4th beast was destroyed by a coming of God and a judgment, plus the first 3 beasts survive past the death of the 4th.

After the cross, we find the Christian church growing exponentially throughout the Roman Empire. And this is despite their being severly persecuted and murdered for almost 300 years. But the church would grow and become very powerful. And when Constantine came to power, it made the Christian church legal... no more persecution, and then within 50 years, pagan Rome would make Christianity the official religion of the Empire. But not more than 100 years later in 476 AD, pagan Rome would fall. This is the 4th beast kingdom that was slain that is mentioned in 7:11. And 7:!2 tells us that although they were slain, the first 3 kingdoms (Babylon, Medes-Persia, and Greece) that were under their control or conquered by them would not be destroyed but continue .... The Roman Empire dominated the entire known world and this would include all of the previous 3 kingdoms mentioned in the metal man image. Certainly, Rome never conquered Babylon or the Medes-Persians, but that is not what verse 12 is trying to tell us. It is telling us that all of those nations that were under the control of pagan Rome would continue - and certainly the world did not cease to be for all of the nations / areas under pagan Rome's control.

And all of this is quite important because pagan Rome would indeed be replaced by the growing and very powerful Christian church. Around 500 AD or so, the bishop of Rome, the most powerful bishop of the Christian church would rule and would become known as the pope or papacy. Now, these other "nations / areas" etc. that were 'prolonged" would come under the control of papal Rome. And this is exactly what took place. And that is exactly why verse 12 is important. Not only would they inherent all the nations / peoples that were under the control of pagan Rome, but they would also inherent the military might of pagan Rome and use it to their advantage (this is what was meant in verse 2:41 - "the strength of the iron (military pagan Rome) shall be in it." It being the new 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome (it is the "divided kingdom" that will arise after the cross, and after the demis of pagan Rome.

 

[Wish-it]

That is indeed a terrific question. And you are absolutely rigth - In Daniel 2:34, we find the Stone (Messiah) would strike the feet (not the toes) of the 4th beast kingdom. This is pagan Rome which is made of iron (not iron and clay, but pure iron). However, God has inserted another symbol WITHIN the iron feet of pagan Rome. Each of the 4 metal kingdoms in chapter 2 are pure metals. The clay is included within the feet of iron because they represent the Jewish nation / people. Israel, at the time of the coming of the Messiah was under Roman control, hence, they were encased or contained within the iron kingdom. So 2:34 represents the Messiah's first coming where He separates (symbolically) the clay from within the iron. And if you were to study verses 2:41-43, they will tell you the consequences of this "breaking apart" of these two elements. Now, verse 2:35 does indeed come right after 2:34, but that does not mean they refer to the same period of time or the same event. Verse 2:35 occurs some 2000 years later, and still counting, when He will return. If you continue to read the entire verse in 2:35, you will find it speaks of the crushing of the now 5 separated elements with the clay now inserted in the middle of the 4 metals. And this crushing will take place at the time of the harvest. Jesus did not come at the time of the harves, but He will return to gather the wheat from the tares.

So once again, verses 2:41-43 provide us with what happens AFTER the Stone separates the iron from the clay (Jews from pagan Rome). These 3 verses are extremely difficult to unpack...

 

[ewq1938]

After the cross, we find the Christian church growing exponentially throughout the Roman Empire. And this is despite their being severly persecuted and murdered for almost 300 years. But the church would grow and become very powerful. And when Constantine came to power, it made the Christian church legal... no more persecution, and then within 50 years, pagan Rome would make Christianity the official religion of the Empire. But not more than 100 years later in 476 AD, pagan Rome would fall. This is the 4th beast kingdom that was slain that is mentioned in 7:11. And 7:!2 tells us that although they were slain, the first 3 kingdoms (Babylon, Medes-Persia, and Greece) that were under their control or conquered by them would not be destroyed but continue .... The Roman Empire dominated the entire known world and this would include all of the previous 3 kingdoms mentioned in the metal man image. Certainly, Rome never conquered Babylon or the Medes-Persians, but that is not what verse 12 is trying to tell us. It is telling us that all of those nations that were under the control of pagan Rome would continue - and certainly the world did not cease to be for all of the nations / areas under pagan Rome's control.

And all of this is quite important because pagan Rome would indeed be replaced by the growing and very powerful Christian church. Around 500 AD or so, the bishop of Rome, the most powerful bishop of the Christian church would rule and would become known as the pope or papacy. Now, these other "nations / areas" etc. that were 'prolonged" would come under the control of papal Rome. And this is exactly what took place. And that is exactly why verse 12 is important. Not only would they inherent all the nations / peoples that were under the control of pagan Rome, but they would also inherent the military might of pagan Rome and use it to their advantage (this is what was meant in verse 2:41 - "the strength of the iron (military pagan Rome) shall be in it." It being the new 4th beast kingdom of papal Rome (it is the "divided kingdom" that will arise after the cross, and after the demis of pagan Rome.

Dan 7 has nothing to do with the fall of Rome, or anything about the RCC. Daniels 4th beast is destroyed at a coming of God and a judgment, which is not how Rome fell plus after the destruction of the 4th beast, God's people inherit an eternal kingdom on Earth which also has not happened. Daniel's 4th beast kingdom is clearly a kingdom ruling the world when God returns and there is a day of Judgment. That doesn't match the far disrtant fall of Rome does it?

 

[Wish-it]

Then we look in Revelation 17:
Revelation 17:1-14
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Now consider carefully the 5 that are fallen.
1. Babylon
2. Medo Persia
3. Grecia
4. Pagan Rome .
5. Papal Rome. We see in Revelation 13 this beast as a conglomerate or diverse beast which has all characteristics of the above listed beasts. And is given its power by the red dragon.
Revelation 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Therefore this is the 5th kingdom. And it reigns for 1260 days until the crowns are taken. It has 10 crowns until it falls.

At which point the deadly wound occurs. The power is taken from this 5th Kingdom which ruled the world for 1260 years during the dark ages. The rule of the Papacy ended in 1798 exactly 1260 years after the destruction of the Ostrogoths and the implementation of the Justinian decree in 538AD. Pope Pius vi was taken captive by General Berthier of France. The destruction of the Papacy was thought to be sure when there were more than 1000 priests murdered at that day. This is well known as the deadly wound to the Papacy which is mentioned in Revelation 13.

At the time of the Pope going into captivity we see another beast rising out of the earth. Beast with two horns

Revelation 13:10-12
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one. -Encyclopedia Britannica 1941 edition. Right around the time that the Pope Pius was taken captive, we see another beast coming up out of the earth with 2 horns. No crowns on these horns. This beast was representative of America....

So the time when 5 are fallen is therefore when there is no monarchy or one world Kingdom reigning the earth as in the past.

1. Lion - Babylon
2. Bear - Medo Persia
3. Leopard - Greece
4. Dragon - Pagan Rome
5. Diverse Beast - Papal Rome Got power from Dragon.

'One is' as John is looking from the end time of the 5th Beast when it got its wound and appeared to be fatal, 1798.

6. America..(Sixth) Beast.. Not a monarchy...No Crowns

So the next one is " is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

7. New World Order... we shall see...

And then we see the one that was and seemed to be fatally wounded and yet is again, and will go into perdition at the end, "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

8. Resurgent Papal Rome which goes until the end, and is burned in the hour of judgement, Babylon, with all the world lamenting her destruction.

Revelation 18:1-11
1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Resurgent papal Rome, doesn't sound terrifying, frightening and very powerful to me. Daniel 7.7. And large iron teeth-id bet the last three pope's probably got dentures.

 

[Wish-it]

That is indeed a terrific question. And you are absolutely rigth - In Daniel 2:34, we find the Stone (Messiah) would strike the feet (not the toes) of the 4th beast kingdom. This is pagan Rome which is made of iron (not iron and clay, but pure iron). However, God has inserted another symbol WITHIN the iron feet of pagan Rome. Each of the 4 metal kingdoms in chapter 2 are pure metals. The clay is included within the feet of iron because they represent the Jewish nation / people. Israel, at the time of the coming of the Messiah was under Roman control, hence, they were encased or contained within the iron kingdom. So 2:34 represents the Messiah's first coming where He separates (symbolically) the clay from within the iron. And if you were to study verses 2:41-43, they will tell you the consequences of this "breaking apart" of these two elements. Now, verse 2:35 does indeed come right after 2:34, but that does not mean they refer to the same period of time or the same event. Verse 2:35 occurs some 2000 years later, and still counting, when He will return. If you continue to read the entire verse in 2:35, you will find it speaks of the crushing of the now 5 separated elements with the clay now inserted in the middle of the 4 metals. And this crushing will take place at the time of the harvest. Jesus did not come at the time of the harves, but He will return to gather the wheat from the tares.

So once again, verses 2:41-43 provide us with what happens AFTER the Stone separates the iron from the clay (Jews from pagan Rome). These 3 verses are extremely difficult to unpack...

Nothing to do with pagan Rome, in my opinion, the final battles of Ezek 38,39, Zech 12 to 14, Psalm 83, Rev 16 confirm that its the countries surrounding Israel that will be the opposing participants. Those nations all Islamic, who just happen to be the descendants of Ishmael and Esau. Its time to reconsider who the fourth kingdom is. Dan 7 tell us, Dan 8 tells us when, Dan 7, 8 and 11 tells us the chronological order.