Darwinism Discussion

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HammerStone

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Saw this story for Agape Press:http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/2/242006c.aspI was glad to see that such a list continues to grow.Without getting too deep in discussion in this thread, I have to say that I am dissappointed in the way that Darwinism is portrayed in both the classroom setting and environments such as the Discovery channel.The problem is, IMHO, not so much the theory itself (though it has its problems certainly and is far from completely plausible in my view) but the way the theory is presented. I watched a show the other day and evolution was presented as a fact. Not one time during the entire show was it stated that Darwinism/Evolutionism was still a theory. It was presented as a fact and the show used it to explain why humans are the way they are. Even the scientific community can say that we're far from being this sure of it.
 

guysmy

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Presenting theories as fact is simply more marketable. Sadly people sometimes can only handle "true" and "false" but have a problem with "maybe." Maybe means uncertainty and we all want to feel in control and pretend that we understand the world around us to some extent.
 

HammerStone

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I guess that's my English major side that makes things more acceptable. My high school teacher who inspired me in many ways taught us a lot about ambiguity and ambivalence. So, it's not very hard for me to accept things might not always have the perfect answer.I agree with the rest of your observations as well. I can see this nature in all of us that we don't like the unknown.
 

khrystyanalee

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I am also an English Major and am minoring in Antropology. I find the scientific vs. religious aspect of anthropology to be quite fascinating. I recently saw a program about Darwin and his life story culminating in his theory of Evolution. It is my belief that he was a very bitter and unhappy man who was looking for an excuse to dicredit god and his works, because his life had not met up with his expectations. What do you think?
 

Sabre

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I am also an English Major and am minoring in Antropology. I find the scientific vs. religious aspect of anthropology to be quite fascinating. I recently saw a program about Darwin and his life story culminating in his theory of Evolution. It is my belief that he was a very bitter and unhappy man who was looking for an excuse to dicredit god and his works, because his life had not met up with his expectations. What do you think?
I really think it will be hard to ever answer the God vs Science debate, simply because for the majority of arguments, we will probably never arrive at an answer.For example, there is no evidence of God creating the world, the universe or anything of the sort.However, the same applys for scientific theories, many of which are extremely weak to say the least.For example, the creation of the universe. How was it created in the very beginning? It must have come from somewhere as you cannot make something out of nothing. So there could well have been a spiritual force behing this. We will simply never know.
 

Love123

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Fascinating. ........Many scientists seem to be struggling with Darwinism. Some brilliant minds are realizing the truth.Watch all of it, it's worth it. The Genius of the mind of God and the machines He made ...........as Science opens doors.........we see God more clearly...Amazing.......... Relax and be awestruck.http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...669588896670&q
 

HammerStone

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There ya go Fred, good way to look at it.
wink.gif
 

servant_of_the_end

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We have the testimony of the writer of Genesis, and the subsequent prophets, that all we see in this material realm was established and made by the Almighty. The scribings of this witness were not meant as a how-He-did-it manual, but merely observed the truth of what was, is, and will be done. The scriptures, and the the words of the servants are meant as a witness to the tesimony of our Lord Yeshua. Science and it adherents cannot take from the scriptures and find the specifics of their respective theories, but they can find corroboration of their findings and thus prove that the scriptures are correct in their truths. Out brother Paul said it best here:Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.Secular humanistic science is bent on disproving the existence of the creator and they will be found fools now, as in eternity, in their efforts to confound the Almighty.
 

servant_of_the_end

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Swampfox,I am unsure how I posted an unfinished post, but if you have the time you may delete the former unfinished post and leave the latter.
 

snaggs

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When I think of Darwinian Evolution, I cant help but to think of the Dover trial, and the work of Michael Behe, and how close it actually came to splitting the Scholastic Curriculum between Evolution, and Intelligent Design.
 

KarenCharin0

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A good friend and Brother in Christ sent me a DVD recently calledThe Privileged Planet. The search for purpose in the universe. It makes some really good points about how conditions have to be just right for us to be able to exit on earth. You can see a clip from the movie here. Here's a link to a review about it and some snips from it. snipAlbert Einstein once remarked that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe was that it was comprehensible. For the past few centuries, no one has offered a satisfactory non-theological explanation as to why this should be so. In recent years, however, a small group of scientists and thinkers have decided to try a novel approach combining science with theology, albeit not of the fundamentalist genre. The result has been the growing and increasingly influential "Intelligent Design" (ID) movement, a major project of the Seattle-based Discovery Institute,snip"Is it possible that this immense, symphonic system of atoms, fields, forces, stars, galaxies, and people is the result of a choice, a purpose or intention, rather than simply some inscrutable outworking of blind necessity or an inexplicable accident? If so, then it's surely possible that there could be evidence to suggest such a possibility . . . "Perhaps we have also been staring past . . . a signal revealing a universe so skillfully crafted for life and discovery that it seems to whisper of an extra-terrestrial intelligence immeasurably more vast, more ancient, and more magnificent than anything we've been willing to expect or imagine." end snipsJay Richards is one of the men who wrote the book that this DVD is based on, I listened to him talk on an interview about more books that he has written. He started out believing in evolution and his wife didn't as he attempted to prove it too her he kept coming up with more and more holes in the theories that he believed in so he started writing books about it. He mention in this interview about whale blow holes, how could they have been caused by evolution when they are unique, there is nothing else like them for them to have evolved from. I think that there are some teachers and scientists starting to open their eyes to see the flaws in what they have been taught and it will lead them to God.
 

snaggs

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(KarenCharin0;6479)
A good friend and Brother in Christ sent me a DVD recently calledThe Privileged Planet. The search for purpose in the universe. It makes some really good points about how conditions have to be just right for us to be able to exit on earth. You can see a clip from the movie here. Here's a link to a review about it and some snips from it. snipAlbert Einstein once remarked that the most incomprehensible thing about the universe was that it was comprehensible. For the past few centuries, no one has offered a satisfactory non-theological explanation as to why this should be so. In recent years, however, a small group of scientists and thinkers have decided to try a novel approach combining science with theology, albeit not of the fundamentalist genre. The result has been the growing and increasingly influential "Intelligent Design" (ID) movement, a major project of the Seattle-based Discovery Institute,snip"Is it possible that this immense, symphonic system of atoms, fields, forces, stars, galaxies, and people is the result of a choice, a purpose or intention, rather than simply some inscrutable outworking of blind necessity or an inexplicable accident? If so, then it's surely possible that there could be evidence to suggest such a possibility . . . "Perhaps we have also been staring past . . . a signal revealing a universe so skillfully crafted for life and discovery that it seems to whisper of an extra-terrestrial intelligence immeasurably more vast, more ancient, and more magnificent than anything we've been willing to expect or imagine." end snipsJay Richards is one of the men who wrote the book that this DVD is based on, I listened to him talk on an interview about more books that he has written. He started out believing in evolution and his wife didn't as he attempted to prove it too her he kept coming up with more and more holes in the theories that he believed in so he started writing books about it. He mention in this interview about whale blow holes, how could they have been caused by evolution when they are unique, there is nothing else like them for them to have evolved from. I think that there are some teachers and scientists starting to open their eyes to see the flaws in what they have been taught and it will lead them to God.
Thank you Karen for the link to that clip,I enjoyed it and will surely get that,I have a link here to full video on Michael Behe's video on the flagellar motor, although, the argument kennith Miller purposed from the work of Barry Hall, has stollen front stage with the acadimic jurnals, claiming reducabillity to Bacterial Flagellum, yet this is not correct!! and the Alledged Pragmatic instatution of the scientific Acadamy has swept the findings and the discloser of hall out of the jurnals....I encourage all to watch this. the Dover trial was based on Behe's discovery. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...mystery+of+life
 

kelphis

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Hello everyone,this is my first post. I noticed that Someone said that they though the dover trial actually almost split the science cirriculum. Do you really think that . were are you getting that Imformation from? I have actually read the ruling and judge jones had nothing nice to say about the defense (ID). micheal behe was even accused of ignoreing evidence of evolution by the conservative judge. did I misread your post when you said that?
 

SilentFlight

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(snaggs;6470)
When I think of Darwinian Evolution, I cant help but to think of the Dover trial, and the work of Michael Behe, and how close it actually came to splitting the Scholastic Curriculum between Evolution, and Intelligent Design.
At the end of the day, they teach these theories in science. It is ok as long as they address them as theories they will always say they have evidence but we cannot find the utter truth about how the world works. Just remember they are theories despite belief or projecting of scientists.
 

kelphis

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(SilentFlight;6621)
At the end of the day, they teach these theories in science. It is ok as long as they address them as theories they will always say they have evidence but we cannot find the utter truth about how the world works. Just remember they are theories despite belief or projecting of scientists.
are you refering to evolution? what would make it truth in your mind?
 

KarenCharin0

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Snaggs, Thanks so much for that link, it really came in handy for a post I made today, and I really enjoyed watching it too.
 

kelphis

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I watched a show the other day and evolution was presented as a fact. Not one time during the entire show was it stated that Darwinism/Evolutionism was still a theory. It was presented as a fact and the show used it to explain why humans are the way they are. Even the scientific community can say that we're far from being this sure of it.
It is fact. you see when you refer to it as a theory you are playing symantics. It may be called the "Theory of Evolution" but science uses the word theory different then the common english speaking world does. science also has the "theory of relativity" which is fact. they also have "atomic theory" which is also fact. lets not forget newtons "theory of gravity". scientists use the word theory for an idea that brings facts together. evolutions is not a belief. there are mountains of evidence that support it. when a science show says that they arent 100% sure of where humans came from they aren't refering to the entirety of evolution. they are only refering to the human species. they have to find evidence for every species. if there are some guesses they are honest about them. but they will refer to them as guesses and not facts. they have lots of evidence for the evolution of man. right now they know that we came from a common ancestor of ape but they have not found that exact species.
 

HammerStone

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The mountains of evidence you speak of are largely based on the same thing. Observations of man. We've made observations for hundreds of years now and they continue to change just as relatively quickly as the latest fashion trends do. However, as to your discussion about theory. The word itself, even in science, has a fairly broad meaning. Ever heard of the "String theory" or "The Theory of Everything" being used? They're real scientific theories that deal with physics yet they are far from proven. That leaves the word theory, even in the scientific realm, with quite a broad definition now doesn't it? Any rational scientist will admit that there are some serious holes in the theory of evolution as an origin. Watching the same animal or species get from point A to point B is one thing - getting from point A as nonliving matter to point Z as diverse living matter is entirely another. You make it sound as if we just have a few holes to fill in. If you believe every study done - and I for one don't because look at the S. Korean scientist about a year ago (he certainly had no qualms about lieing) - then there still is a lot of yardage to drive before that one becomes a fact. The real funny thing is, common sense would dictate that if all the steps were needed then there would be a fair amount of evidence that would rather quickly be decided. Particularly so when you have an entire community scrambling to find them.
 

kelphis

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The mountains of evidence you speak of are largely based on the same thing. Observations of man. We've made observations for hundreds of years now and they continue to change just as relatively quickly as the latest fashion trends do.
i thank you for responding. I have been pretty much ignored up until now. I dont see what your point is. everything we do comes down to observations. Mathmatics, cooking, music, etc.. if a observation does change then It is potentionally wrong (depending on the change). those wrong observations are weeded out rather quickly. evolution has been around for about 150 years now. and even today we continue to find evidence that reenforces it. Am I understanding what you are saying? If my response seems off of your point please elaborate.(SwampFox;6750)
Any rational scientist will admit that there are some serious holes in the theory of evolution as an origin. Watching the same animal or species get from point A to point B is one thing - getting from point A as nonliving matter to point Z as diverse living matter is entirely another. You make it sound as if we just have a few holes to fill in. If you believe every study done - and I for one don't because look at the S. Korean scientist about a year ago (he certainly had no qualms about lieing) - then there still is a lot of yardage to drive before that one becomes a fact.
evolution is a biological explanation and in no way tries to explain the orgin of life. once life is created then evolution takes over. prior to the existance of life comes down to "Abiogenisis" which i dont know much about. as far as i understand there isnt an explanation for it. whatever the explanation is it will probably be answered by chemistry.and there are far more hoaxes in the scientific community than the S. Korean you mentioned. but all of the hoaxes are found out rather quickly by scientists. scientists do the uncovering because once these claims are made they dont have any evidence to support them and they quickly die. scientists find these out. it wasnt like the church started asking questions and the korean caved and admitted.
 
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