Denominations?

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marksman

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BARNES: And fellowship - The word rendered "fellowship," κοινωνία koinōnia, is often rendered "communion." It properly denotes "having things in common, or participation, society, friendship." It may apply to anything which may be possessed in common, or in which all may partake. Thus, all Christians have the same hope of heaven; the same joys; the same hatred of sin; the same enemies to contend with. Thus, they have the same subjects of conversation, of feeling, and of prayer; or they have communion in these things. And thus the early Christians had their property in common. The word here may apply to either or to all of these things to their conversation, their prayers, their dangers, or their property; and means that they were united to the apostles, and participated with them in whatever befell them. It may be added that the effect of a revival of religion is to unite Christians more and more, and to bring those who were before separated to union and love. Christians feel that they are a band of brethren, and that, however much they were separated before they became Christians, now they have great and important interests in common; they are united in feelings, in interests, in dangers, in conflicts, in opinions, and in the hopes of a blessed immortality.

GILL’S: and fellowship; with the apostles and other saints, in spiritual conversation with them, in private, and in communion with them at the Lord's table in public: and so the Vulgate Latin reads this clause, in connection with the next, thus, "in the communication of breaking of bread"; to which agrees the Syriac version, and "they communicated in prayer, and in breaking of the eucharist"; though it seems better to understand this of a distinct branch of fellowship, or communication, and may rather intend liberality and beneficence, in which sense it is used, Romans 15:26 and so expresses their constant contributions towards the support of the apostles, as ministers of the word and of the poor members of the church; a duty which, in both its branches, is incumbent on those who have it in their power to perform, and which these first Christians were remarkable for:

Fellowship (κοινωνίᾳ)
From κοινός, common. A relation between individuals which involves a common interest and a mutual, active participation in that interest and in each other. The word answers to the Latin communio, from communis, common. Hence, sometimes rendered communion, as 1 Corinthians 10:16; 2 Corinthians 13:14. Fellowship is the most common rendering. Thus Philippians 1:5 : "your fellowship in the gospel," signifying co-operation in the widest sense; participation in sympathy, suffering, and labor. Compare 1 John 1:3, 1 John 1:6, 1 John 1:7. Occasionally it is used to express the particular form which the spirit of fellowship assumes; as in Romans 15:26; Hebrews 13:16, where it signifies the giving of alms, but always with an emphasis upon the principle of Christian fellowship which underlies the gift.
 

TexUs

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So let me get this straight.

Your argument is that in a corporate building- fellowship is not possible.
But in homes- it is?

So let me get this straight.

Your argument is that in a corporate building- fellowship is not possible.
But in homes- it is?
 

marksman

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Quote The fact is still that they attended a corporate place together, not just homes.

Can you tell me how they ate meals together in the temple?
Try answering the question.
 

Sharla

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Unfortunately, the culprit in the creation of divisions or denominations or schism is man. Some, called cults are set aside by the majority because they so different and supposedly far away from the Truth that they are not even Christian or followers of Christ. Such are the ways of men!

In the OT [Old Testament] there are several examples of divisions in God's people to show us how not to do things. But... man never has never been very good about learning from the mistakes of others. He, most of the time, [if even then], must learn from his own mistakes.

One very good example of division came when Solomon, the king, the son of David, messed up. He loved too many women too much, to the point that he not only allowed them to worship their own idols, but in his own old age allowed them to turn his own head away from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel to those false gods.

Because of Solomon's sins, God took the northern 10 tribes from his son Rehoboam and gave them to Jeroboam. This was not curse on Jeroboam, but a blessing from God with a promise, a promise on which Jeroboam never made good....

"And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee." I Kings 11:38

When the actual split occurred, the house of Judah, supported by Benjamin intended to war against the northern tribes, but God initially prevented it. God never divided His Spiritual kingdom. He never split His spiritual people. He did divide people naturally, but spiritually His hope was always for them to remain one in Him.

"Thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel: return every man to his house; for this thing is from me. They hearkened therefore to the word of the LORD, and returned to depart, according to the word of the LORD." I Kings 12:24

In spite of the gift that God had given him and the protection He had provided against Judah, Jeroboam had to put his own hands into it for the purpose of retaining what he had. He did not trust in God, but in himself.

He made two calves of gold, which he set up in Bethel and Dan for the people to worship so that they would not go to Jerusalem to sacrifice and worship God. He appointed priests of the lowest of people rather than of the Levites and the children of Aaron. Instead of accepting the gift of God, and giving God the glory, he changed the gift into a curse:

"Go, tell Jeroboam, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Forasmuch as I exalted thee from among the people, and made thee prince over my people Israel,

And rent the kingdom away from the house of David, and gave it thee: and yet thou hast not been as my servant David, who kept my commandments, and who followed me with all his heart, to do that only which was right in mine eyes;

But hast done evil above all that were before thee: for thou hast gone and made thee other gods, and molten images, to provoke me to anger, and hast cast me behind thy back:

Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam, and will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall, and him that is shut up and left in Israel, and will take away the remnant of the house of Jeroboam, as a man taketh away dung, till it be all gone." I Kings 14:7-10

All of us who have studied and read the OT have seen the continuing and seemingly permanent split between the children of Jacob, which eventually led to wars between them. At one time the northern tribes would go so far as to tear a portion of the wall surrounding Jerusalem.

At least two of the better kings of Judah made efforts to bring the people in the north back to the God of Israel, but the results, although good, they were not completely successful.

Man, even after the birth and death and resurrection of a Savior continues too much todoay in the same beastly ways exemplified in the nations of Judah and Israel of old. Remember that both Judah (the south) and Israel (the north) moved in ways very displeasing to God. To pit Eastern Orhodox against Roman Catholic, or Catholic against Protestant, or Protestant against Protestant, etc, does not please God now any more than it did when tribes of Israel were set against each other.

The only answer then and now is in God! We cannot sort this thing out by pointing fingers at one another, or by fighitng battles with each other. All that each of us can do is to really and truly trust in God and remain on His side without trying to decide for others which side of the present church organizations, if any, is His side.

Give God all of the glory always!

Amadeus,

I really enjoy reading the posts and in this thread so if I am reading and understanding things correctly, it is important to put our main focus on God and not on the divisions of doctrines and denominations. I have been wondering about this entire denomination and doctrine thing for the longest time. My step mother would stress to me to stay away from certain churches or doctrines. I did for a while but then decided to look at these forbidden doctrines. They believed in God like I did. What's the big deal? They just had a different way of going about God's teachings was all.

My cousin is a Baptist, he comes up to me during his graduation party to ask me since our grandparents are Catholics, will they go to hell? I told him I do not think so because they believe in God just like us. He looked relieved after I told him that. I explain to him that God knows our hearts, and I think that is a very important part our relationship with him. But after him asking me that is when I realized something was off. I am a Lutheran, he is a baptists and our grandparents are Catholics. Are we wrong for not going to the same church doctrine? After a few years of attending different Churches, and reading and praying I have decided that perhaps these divisions were bound to happen anyways and that as long as we focus on God and His kingdom and His Son Jesus and His teachings, I think we are all in His hands. And to have a beautiful relationship with Jesus of course. :)

I hope I make sense, I have a slight language disability so I have a hard time comprehending some of what I read. And my writing is not the best either. I am working on improving.

Thanks for listening :D

God Bless

Sharla
 

TexUs

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There's a difference in belief OF God (I notice you didn't even say Christ???), and belief IN Christ.

The demons know and believe who God is.
So what's the saving belief? I wouldn't even say it's belief in the gospel: the demons believe and know what happened.
It's belief and SUBMISSION TO the gospel.

You must ask yourself if the belittling of Christ in certain forms is submission to the gospel:
His holiness was dependent upon Mary's (immaculate conception). It means God can't be holy without Mary have being holy? It belittles Him.
In addition to Christ not fully and freely giving the full word to all people (The RCC believes only they have the full truth). (This comes with many connotations, the Office of the Pope, for example). God can't give all people his truth? It belittles Him.

These (and tons more, I'm being brief) work against "submission to the gospel". It becomes submission to made up traditions.
Thus, I think it depends on the individual. How far does that individual go with these ideas, how much do they believe? I think there are Christians in the RCC, just not very many. I think any true Christians in the RCC, leave the RCC. One that is under submission to the gospel can never be fed with a message to the contrary.

All these things eat away at the nature and character of God. Depending on what one believes, so many false beliefs eventually turn God into another god altogether and in my opinion, a 100% Catholic that follows and observes all their teachings does not worship the same God that I do.
 

amadeus

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Hello Sharla!

Amadeus,

I really enjoy reading the posts and in this thread so if I am reading and understanding things correctly, it is important to put our main focus on God and not on the divisions of doctrines and denominations. I have been wondering about this entire denomination and doctrine thing for the longest time. My step mother would stress to me to stay away from certain churches or doctrines. I did for a while but then decided to look at these forbidden doctrines. They believed in God like I did. What's the big deal? They just had a different way of going about God's teachings was all.

The message of scripture is clear that without love [charity] we do not have anything at all:

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I Cor 13:1-7


And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love." I Cor 13:13

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." I John 4:7-8


Sharla: My cousin is a Baptist, he comes up to me during his graduation party to ask me since our grandparents are Catholics, will they go to hell? I told him I do not think so because they believe in God just like us. He looked relieved after I told him that. I explain to him that God knows our hearts, and I think that is a very important part our relationship with him. But after him asking me that is when I realized something was off. I am a Lutheran, he is a baptists and our grandparents are Catholics. Are we wrong for not going to the same church doctrine? After a few years of attending different Churches, and reading and praying I have decided that perhaps these divisions were bound to happen anyways and that as long as we focus on God and His kingdom and His Son Jesus and His teachings, I think we are all in His hands. And to have a beautiful relationship with Jesus of course. :)

We will judged certainly, but our judgment will be in line with how much God has given us. We must do as much as we can with what we have to show our love for God. Not everyone has received from God, the same amount of brains, or education or opportunity. All of those things will be considered along with God's Word in deciding what the final judgment. We can be certain that God will always be fair.

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48


Sharla: I hope I make sense, I have a slight language disability so I have a hard time comprehending some of what I read. And my writing is not the best either. I am working on improving.

Your disability, no matter how great or how small is also considered by God in His judgment. People who have doctorate degree in Divinity, but do not obey the scriptures that they supposedly know, will likely be in more trouble with God than an illiterate man in Guatemala who loves God even though he cannot read a Bible in his own native language.

Remember: "...much is given... much is required..." [from Luke 12:48]

May God richly bless you as you walk with Him, Sharla!
 

Sharla

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Hello Sharla!



The message of scripture is clear that without love [charity] we do not have anything at all:

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;

bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." I Cor 13:1-7


And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love." I Cor 13:13

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." I John 4:7-8




We will judged certainly, but our judgment will be in line with how much God has given us. We must do as much as we can with what we have to show our love for God. Not everyone has received from God, the same amount of brains, or education or opportunity. All of those things will be considered along with God's Word in deciding what the final judgment. We can be certain that God will always be fair.

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48




Your disability, no matter how great or how small is also considered by God in His judgment. People who have doctorate degree in Divinity, but do not obey the scriptures that they supposedly know, will likely be in more trouble with God than an illiterate man in Guatemala who loves God even though he cannot read a Bible in his own native language.

Remember: "...much is given... much is required..." [from Luke 12:48]


Why is it that a disability will be considered in His judgment? I thought Jesus died to save us from these things. But is it really my fault I was born with illnesses and disabilities. Is it man who gave birth to sin that came into this world? I understand what you are talking about when you mean a man who could not read God's word but loves God is most likely be in less trouble than a man who can read the bible but does not follow the holy scriptures. Much is given much is required, yes. But Jesus came. God knows we are sinner and we cannot follow His commandments perfectly. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we leave this earth and come home to Him. In this world we live in there are distractions everywhere. There are Churches that lose focus on God and were over taken by their own pride. There are people on tv half naked. There are people walking around with severe illnesses but they cannot help themselves because they are mentally gone! I cannot watch a tv commercial with out seeing sex! Keeping God's commandments in this insane world of technology. How can I not sin? And all sin is wrong in God's eyes. All I can do is repent. Thank God for His son Jesus. That's all I know.

Thanks for the welcome!

The walk with Jesus has been an intimate walk. :)

Sharla
 

Sharla

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Jan 27, 2011
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There's a difference in belief OF God (I notice you didn't even say Christ???), and belief IN Christ.

The demons know and believe who God is.
So what's the saving belief? I wouldn't even say it's belief in the gospel: the demons believe and know what happened.
It's belief and SUBMISSION TO the gospel.

You must ask yourself if the belittling of Christ in certain forms is submission to the gospel:
His holiness was dependent upon Mary's (immaculate conception). It means God can't be holy without Mary have being holy? It belittles Him.
In addition to Christ not fully and freely giving the full word to all people (The RCC believes only they have the full truth). (This comes with many connotations, the Office of the Pope, for example). God can't give all people his truth? It belittles Him.

These (and tons more, I'm being brief) work against "submission to the gospel". It becomes submission to made up traditions.
Thus, I think it depends on the individual. How far does that individual go with these ideas, how much do they believe? I think there are Christians in the RCC, just not very many. I think any true Christians in the RCC, leave the RCC. One that is under submission to the gospel can never be fed with a message to the contrary.

All these things eat away at the nature and character of God. Depending on what one believes, so many false beliefs eventually turn God into another god altogether and in my opinion, a 100% Catholic that follows and observes all their teachings does not worship the same God that I do.

I understand where you come from Texus. I do not blame you. But believe it or not, there is a huge stereotype of the Catholic church. (actually if you think about it, every church and different denomination has it's stereotypes.) His holiness was not dependent of Mary, God chose Mary to carry His son. Grant it some Catholic churches will go around and preach on Mary and how she is the queen and how God is not holy unless with Mary. Well I will tell you my grandparents church teachings were not like that at all. Like we all have experienced, not all churches are perfect and we just have to be careful and allow our holy spirit to guide us through these sort of things along with our judgment and understandings of the Scriptures.

There are churches besides the Catholic church that belittle God. And there are churches who will take scriptures out of context to suit their own purposes for their own visions in life. Scary stuff huh? Imagine a whole entire congregation being misguided like that? Happens everyday.

Sharla
 

amadeus

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Sharla:
Why is it that a disability will be considered in His judgment? I thought Jesus died to save us from these things. But is it really my fault I was born with illnesses and disabilities. Is it man who gave birth to sin that came into this world? I understand what you are talking about when you mean a man who could not read God's word but loves God is most likely be in less trouble than a man who can read the bible but does not follow the holy scriptures. Much is given much is required, yes. But Jesus came. God knows we are sinner and we cannot follow His commandments perfectly. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we leave this earth and come home to Him. In this world we live in there are distractions everywhere. There are Churches that lose focus on God and were over taken by their own pride. There are people on tv half naked. There are people walking around with severe illnesses but they cannot help themselves because they are mentally gone! I cannot watch a tv commercial with out seeing sex! Keeping God's commandments in this insane world of technology. How can I not sin? And all sin is wrong in God's eyes. All I can do is repent. Thank God for His son Jesus. That's all I know.

Thanks for the welcome!

The walk with Jesus has been an intimate walk. :)

Everything God gave us will be considered, both the things man may see as pluses [+++] or minuses [- - -]. Then God in the end will judge each person in accord with what he did or did not have. God judgment unlike the jdgment of men will alway be fair.

If a person is born with the brain of an Einstein, he will be judged on how he uses it. If a person is born with dark skin and is discriminated against as a result, this will also be considered in his judgment. If a person is born a woman into a society that gives preference to men, that will also be taken into account. If a person loses both legs at the hip due to an automobile accident, his lack of legs will also be considered. If a person is born with a silver spoon in his mouth so anything that could be bought with money was his for the asking, that would also be considered. If a person were born in a grass shack in poverty stricken, earthquake ravaged Haiti, that would also be considered.

If we are born into a society where nearly anything goes, legally, how we deal with that circumstance over which we have no control will also be considered.

God will look at each person's heart and considering what the person has been given either at birth or later will make a judgment on the person's life. What kind of stewards with everything that belongs to the Lord. It does all belong to Him.

As you walk with God always remember to give Him the glory for all of the blessings that He has given you and ask for help to accomplish whatever is His will for you in spite of any negative factors involved. God knows about all of those. All of us alone may come short, but we are expected to use whatever we have or don't have to try to please God.

What is it that will please God?

Giving Him the glory will likely always please HIm.
 

IanLC

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And that is when you get denominations. I have studied all the major denominations in my country and apart from one or two, they came about because someone had a revelation that was different which the denomination they were in would not accept. So they went off and started their own movement. Unfortunately, like most of them, they don't take long to fossilise and lose their original vision, especially after a founder dies as a power struggle often sets in to be the top dog.

The last two years I have done an extensive study of the church, both past and present and too many of them are only a platform for men to strut the stage, so they are not really interested in anything that will deplete their power base which unity would. Submitting to all the other church leaders in the town requires humility and there ain't much of that about. They would rather build their kingdoms to get recognition from the denomination and when that happens they get to climb the ladder of success a lot quicker.

The person then stops being a servant of God and becomes a servant of the denomination so any scripture that might contradict denominational orders is quickly glossed over or conveniently avoided. The truth is, in too many cases, man is building his church and preventing Jesus from building his.

I agree. We have to understand that love is the thing that we unify the church. No I may not agree with evrything you say but I will love you. And if false doctrine in all denominations were removed and the base biblical principles were utilized then we would have unity.