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Featured Diagnosing Mother Teresa

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Webers_Home, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Well, you decided all on your very own that I'm a universalist.
    You coulda asked !!
    Then you proceeded to tell me that I don't understand
    Romans 1:19-20.

    Then you proceeded to tell me above that I insulted you.
    You know, this conversation ain't goin' nowhere fast.

    Ciao.
     
  2. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    I see little pt on continuing with you, unless you can refrain from making making personal comments towards me instead of staying on topic. You don't seem to discern the difference.
    A universalism salvation is the belief that everyone will be saved eventually.
    Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?
     
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  3. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    Good morning! I hope it's ok if I just quote and reply to this post.

    People who've received Christ are children of God -

    "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12

    "For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." Galatians 3:26

    The very verses you posted shows that God has revealed Himself since creation.

    Of course the Gospel has spread - the apostles took it to the known world at the time and it's continued to spread ever since.

    "and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;" Acts 17:26-27

    God chose Israel as the nation that would bring forth the Messiah,to be priests, prophets, missionaries and to fulfill His promise.

    "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers..." Deut. 7:6-8

    "who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen." Romans 9:4-5

    Sure, we all have opinions. But when opinions (including mine) differ from scripture one is right and one is wrong...

    Here's the rest of the story on that. See, the verses you're quoting is Paul's argument that God has revealed Himself "since the creation of the world", yet His wrath is revealed against all ungodliness, etc., because He was rejected in spite of making Himself known to people.

    Let's look at the verses preceding and following 19 & 20 - this is vs 18 - 25 ---

    "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures."

    Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

    Romans 1 isn't an argument that everyone will inherit heaven or that everyone is God's child - it's the opposite; it's the argument that God has made Himself clearly known and was still rejected - do you see?
     
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  4. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    It's cute your telling me not to just quote scripture, but learn what it means right after posting one verse and assigning a belief that's not even close. Taking John 9:41 at complete face value to support a completely false doctrine. "Invincible ignorance" is a complete fairy tale. Talk about cherry picking.

    Speaking of cherry picking, you can lay off the comments....it's one thing to create an entire doctrine based off of one verse as the RCC does, and another to show verses - plural - in support of doctrine.

    I'm "anti-catholic" in the sense that I'm against any and all false doctrine, false religion, false teaching. Not just the RCC but if that applies to you, so be it. I don't hate or dislike the people who follow it by any means, but am very sorry for the deception that keeps them bound to lies of satan.

    While the entire passage of Romans 1 is pertinent, maybe you should concentrate a bit on vs 20, 21, 25 and 28.
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    WRONG.

    John 9:41 is supported by other verses like John 15:22 . . .
    If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

    Cherry-picking verses like you do, that seem to contradict others is NOT the way to study Scripture. ALL Scripture must harmonize – or it isn’t true.

    The doctrine of Invincible Ignorance is indeed Scriptural – and one that Mother Teresa espoused.

    As for being anti-Catholic – it’s not because a person simply “disagrees” with Catholic doctrine. It’s when a person resorts to dishonesty to present his case that makes him “anti-Catholic.”
     
  6. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    True. Many people are creations of God but not all are "children" of the Most High. What do you think about "until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled?"
     
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  7. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Good morning,,,,but it's afternoon here....

    I'm glad you got to Romans 1:19-20 because it's a very important scripture.
    You're trying to get contest by reading the before and after and that's good and I agree that it's also speaking about God's wrath because man is without excuse.

    But WHY is he without excuse?

    Precisely because God has revealed Himself to mankind from the beginning.
    We didn't have to wait to have the N.T. to know about God.
    God has always been known,,perhaps by different names, but it's till the same God.

    I like to use the American Indian as an example because they were not close to Europe or the Middle East. And yet they knew of the Great Spirit. Who could this Great Spirit be but God?

    I think it's incredible how God HAS made Himself be known in all of time since the beginning.

    Just like today,,,some knew this God and some did not and refused Him and lived life for themselves. Those that worshipped Him are surely saved and with God.

    If a person has known about Jesus and has rejected the Son of God, I will not judge him and leave that up to God.

    If a person has never known Jesus but worships God in their own way,,,I do believe that a loving, and merciful and just God will allow them to live with Him.

    There is only One God and Jesus will teach those who know of Him the way to God.
     
  8. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I think John 1:12 says SONS of God.

    I believe we're all children of God but we are not all sons of God.

    Maybe someone would like to comment on this...
    I remember having learned this.
     
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    In order to avoid spiritual confusion, it is better to say that the "sons of God" (in the New Testament) are the only "children of God". Therefore all of humanity cannot be labeled as "the children of God".

    At the same time, Paul did say this: Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.(Acts 17:29)

    What was Paul saying in this context? That because men are created in the image of God (thus the "offspring of God"), who is invisible and who cannot (and may not) be represented by any image, men ought not to make and worship idols.

    While Adam was created in the image of God, he chose to make himself into the image of Satan. Therefore only those who have been born again are children of God or sons of God.
     
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  10. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    OK. Sounds good to me.

    Those with the sin nature cannot be sons of God, or children.

    But, although I've learned much about Adam and Eve, I've never heard it said that he made himself back into the image of satan. Lost persons are in the image of satan? I've never heard this. The DO serve satan....
     
  11. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    Calling me a liar is beyond the pale.

    Since you clearly can't discuss these things without lowering yourself to name calling (to say the least), I'm out.
     
  12. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    Hi Nancy ~

    Luke 21:24 says They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    Jesus is speaking of the end days here. Since Israel as a nation was disobedient and rejected Christ, the Gospel was taken to the Gentiles.

    Romans 11:25 also says Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

    The kingdoms in the prophecies of the OT, such as Daniel, are Gentile kingdoms since Babylon that will rule and be in control until Jesus comes back and establishes His kingdom thus ending "the times of the Gentiles".

    This is kind of short, but does that help?
     
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  13. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    Even the Pagan Greeks in their Pantheon had the Unknown God, which I’m sure is, God our father.
     
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  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t call YOU a “liar.”

    I said that anti-Catholics relied on LIES to further their arguments.
    If YOU feel guilty because of this – that’s YOUR problem.

    Just stay honest when you debate these things . . .
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  15. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you,
    The times of the Gentiles then ends when Jesus returns, and that opens up the time for the Nation of Israel once again to accept or reject their Messiah? I know this subject can get pretty extensive AND complicated when there are so many views. ut, I thank you for the reply!
    In Him Always,
    nancy
     
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  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Yes...in fact Paul told them he was going to introduce them to the unknown God.
    Acts 17:22-29

    The place where he preached to them is visible when looking down from the Acropolice. The place was called Agora' and is a specific place (which I can't find online images) where people gathered because it was hilly and the speaker could be above the people gathered around. It was also where the market was held.

    It looked something like this:

    • [​IMG]
     
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  17. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    The quotes below are what you said. I've never not been honest. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't make them a liar.

    I have zero guilt regarding any posts to you. Your problem is the way you post. It would do you good to learn to disagree with someone without name calling, etc. Aren't you an adult?

    See ya.

     
  18. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    For Mother Teresa to say such things just doesn’t make sense, she devoted her life to the church.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  19. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Well, you LIED when you said that the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance is taken from ONE cherry-picked verse (John 9:41). This is false and DISHONEST, as I backed it up with more Scripture (John 15:22).

    YOU cherry-picked Rom. 1:20 out of context and used it as an argument against Invincible Ignorance – but it had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. This is DISHONEST and I presented the ENTIRE passage in its proper context, which was talking about wicked and rebellious people, not the ignorant.

    YOU claimed that Mother Teresa taught that there were many ways to the Father.
    This is DISHONEST, as I later showed you.

    The point is that if you don’t want to be accused of being dishonest – then DON’T be.
    Otherwise, don’t whine about it . . .
     
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    I found a few pics of Agora...
    The Ruins of Agora:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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