Did Covenants Come Frist ? No !

[dan p]

Hi to all and one thing that has cloulded many believers minds , is the we should keep the 10 commandments .

Many believers , can and do see 3 parts to the Law of Moses , the Ceremonial , the Moral and the Civil Law , but the word Law is always in the singular and not in the Plural .

In my study there is one word THAT comes before Covenant and that is the word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA and here is why !

In Eph 1:4 , We are CHOSEN / ELECTED / CALLED , us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world .

In 2 Tim 1:9 , we were in Christ before the world BEGAN .

But there is yet another Dispensation before all this and it is what many call the " the Dispensation of Angelic Testing " where Satan and his fallen angel and all other angels are called holy angels .

SO , BIBLICALLY SPEAKING , Dispensations come before Covenants and that means any discussions of Covenants are MOOT , and Paul is the ONLY one that shows how dispensations apply to the Body of Christ and why Covenants belong to Israel for all time and Paul never LINKS Dispensations with Covenant , but does the OPPOSITE , dan p

 

[charlesj]

Hi to all and one thing that has cloulded many believers minds , is the we should keep the 10 commandments .

Many believers , can and do see 3 parts to the Law of Moses , the Ceremonial , the Moral and the Civil Law , but the word Law is always in the singular and not in the Plural .

In my study there is one word THAT comes before Covenant and that is the word DISPENSATION / OIKONOMIA and here is why !

In Eph 1:4 , We are CHOSEN / ELECTED / CALLED , us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world .

In 2 Tim 1:9 , we were in Christ before the world BEGAN .

But there is yet another Dispensation before all this and it is what many call the " the Dispensation of Angelic Testing " where Satan and his fallen angel and all other angels are called holy angels .

SO , BIBLICALLY SPEAKING , Dispensations come before Covenants and that means any discussions of Covenants are MOOT , and Paul is the ONLY one that shows how dispensations apply to the Body of Christ and why Covenants belong to Israel for all time and Paul never LINKS Dispensations with Covenant , but does the OPPOSITE , dan p

Dan p:



You said, “Many believers , can and do see 3 parts to the Law of Moses , the Ceremonial , the Moral and the Civil Law , but the word Law is always in the singular and not in the Plural .”



This word “Law” is used throughout the New Testament with and without the article. If it is “The Law” then the Torah is being referred to.



For example, in Galatians 3:24 is translated “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.[sup]”[/sup] (New American Standard)



Now, from the Complete Jewish Bible, Gal 3:24, “[sup]24 [/sup]Accordingly, the Torah functioned as a custodian until the Messiah came, so that we might be declared righteous on the ground of trusting and being faithful.[sup]” [/sup] (CJB)



Of course, Torah is the five books of Moses, Gen, Ex., Lev., Num., & Deut. The Jewish nation and Christians today should use Torah. Torah means “teachings or instruction.” Originally, it did not mean “law.”



I went through my Greek Bible and noted every place “law” (nomos) was mentioned. I then looked to see where it had an article (‘o nomos) and where it didn’t. I went throughout my NAS bible and marked the places with and without the article. The Complete Jewish Bible solves that problem by translating “the law” to “torah.”



After Moses penned the Torah, the “prophets and writings” were added. As time went on, the Jews would refer to all three, torah-prophets-writings, as torah or law. The apostles and Yeshua referred to what we call the O.T. as “scriptures.”



What we call the “Old Testament” the Jews, and many Christians refer to it as Tanakh.



Tanakh is a man made name the same as Old Testament is man made. The Jews got Tanakh by taking Torah, Nevi’im (meaning prophets) & K’tuvem (writings)… they took the three letters T, N & K, added two vowels and presto they came up with Tanakh.

I don’t know how we Gentiles came up with “Old Testament.” Just as I don’t know how we came up with the phrase “Ten Commandments.” God calls what we call ten commandments as “Ten Words.” In Greek it is Decalogue (dekalogos). Deca meaning “ten” and logos means “Words.”



The “tanakh” was the only “bible” they had in the first century. The apostles and Yeshua used only the Tanakh. Over 50% of the New Testament contains quotes from the Tanakh.



In the other comments you made on “dispensations”… before the world began, or before the beginning, there WAS NOT TIME, therefore, there could not have been any dispensations.

Also, we know very little of Satan or angels. We do know that YHWH created everything.



I like what Messiah said the night before Passover, “In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant between God and you, sealed by the shedding of my blood. Do this in remembrance of me as often as you drink it." (NLT). 1 Cor 11:25.



Messiah said, “this cup is the new covenant between God and YOU (ISRAEL)…” (This was between "the remnant of Israelite believers" and Yahweh. The "non believing Jews" were cut off just as Moses said in Torah. Today the same applies. There is only ONE way of salvation and that is through the Messiah)



Your servant in Messiah, Yeshua,

Charles







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[dan p]

Dan p:



You said, “Many believers , can and do see 3 parts to the Law of Moses , the Ceremonial , the Moral and the Civil Law , but the word Law is always in the singular and not in the Plural .”



This word “Law” is used throughout the New Testament with and without the article. If it is “The Law” then the Torah is being referred to.



For example, in Galatians 3:24 is translated “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.[sup]”[/sup] (New American Standard)



Now, from the Complete Jewish Bible, Gal 3:24, “[sup]24 [/sup]Accordingly, the Torah functioned as a custodian until the Messiah came, so that we might be declared righteous on the ground of trusting and being faithful.[sup]” [/sup] (CJB)



Of course, Torah is the five books of Moses, Gen, Ex., Lev., Num., & Deut. The Jewish nation and Christians today should use Torah. Torah means “teachings or instruction.” Originally, it did not mean “law.”



I went through my Greek Bible and noted every place “law” (nomos) was mentioned. I then looked to see where it had an article (‘o nomos) and where it didn’t. I went throughout my NAS bible and marked the places with and without the article. The Complete Jewish Bible solves that problem by translating “the law” to “torah.”



After Moses penned the Torah, the “prophets and writings” were added. As time went on, the Jews would refer to all three, torah-prophets-writings, as torah or law. The apostles and Yeshua referred to what we call the O.T. as “scriptures.”



What we call the “Old Testament” the Jews, and many Christians refer to it as Tanakh.



Tanakh is a man made name the same as Old Testament is man made. The Jews got Tanakh by taking Torah, Nevi’im (meaning prophets) & K’tuvem (writings)… they took the three letters T, N & K, added two vowels and presto they came up with Tanakh.

I don’t know how we Gentiles came up with “Old Testament.” Just as I don’t know how we came up with the phrase “Ten Commandments.” God calls what we call ten commandments as “Ten Words.” In Greek it is Decalogue (dekalogos). Deca meaning “ten” and logos means “Words.”



The “tanakh” was the only “bible” they had in the first century. The apostles and Yeshua used only the Tanakh. Over 50% of the New Testament contains quotes from the Tanakh.



In the other comments you made on “dispensations”… before the world began, or before the beginning, there WAS NOT TIME, therefore, there could not have been any dispensations.

Also, we know very little of Satan or angels. We do know that YHWH created everything.



I like what Messiah said the night before Passover, “In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant between God and you, sealed by the shedding of my blood. Do this in remembrance of me as often as you drink it." (NLT). 1 Cor 11:25.



Messiah said, “this cup is the new covenant between God and YOU (ISRAEL)…”



Your servant in Messiah, Yeshua,

Charles







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Hi Charles and good to see your reply as I know very little Hebrew and more Greek , and I will be posting more on the Greek Perfect Tense , voice and mood .

Most Greek words have more than one English translation and I also know that Translation are not inspired or we would have 160 inspired English Translation and there is not Double Inspiration , but I am sticking to my Intreptation of Eph 1:4 and 2 Tin 1:9 and let all who read , a different view point and the reason that I say Dispensationals is because Paul is the ONLY in my study that uses that word , dan p

 

[veteran]

That idea that the word "dispensation" has nothing to do with God's covenant is a false tradition...

Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, That great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(KJV)

What "everlasting covenant" is that? It's God's Salvation Promise through The Saviour, Jesus Christ, by His Blood shed upon the cross.


Gen 17:5-7
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
(KJV)

Well what "everlasting covenant" was that which God spoke to Abraham there?

Who doesn't know that word "everlasting" means past, present, and future, all time?

So just what was that "everlasting covenant" God gave through Abraham by Promise, and Abraham believed and it was counted to him as righteousness?


Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
(KJV)

How's Paul saying that? (And note Paul is speaking to Gentiles of the Galatians there.)

It's because God's Promise of Salvation by Faith on The Saviour was FIRST given through Abraham. In John 8 Christ said Abraham saw His day, and was glad, showing The Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to Abraham. And Abraham believed by Faith as we have.

That Promise by Faith first given through Abraham was before the Old Covenant was given; 430 years prior. That everlasting covenant IS the New Covenant Jesus Christ. That was given through Abraham first.

And because that "everlasting covenant" is about God's Salvation Plan through The Blood of Jesus Christ, by Faith, it was ordained prior to the foundation of this world. That's HOW those like Abraham who believe were chosen before the foundation of this world.

Impossible to separate Paul's usage of the word "dispensation" (administration) from that "everlasting covenant" of The Promised Saviour Jesus Christ. That's what Abraham was given from God by Promise, and It continued through those of Faith among Israel who received Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, and then by them was taken to the Gentiles and all the world.

 

[dan p]

That idea that the word "dispensation" has nothing to do with God's covenant is a false tradition...

Heb 13:20


Hi veteran , and you have a verse that LINKS Dispensation with Covenant ????

I have already shown the OIKONOMIA means House Law .

Ane Covenant DIATHEKE means agreement , contract , will , .

So where is the link ???

And I have a verse that says that they are NOT LINKED , BUT will wait on your verse that you will never find !!! dan p

 

[veteran]

Heb 13:20


Hi veteran , and you have a verse that LINKS Dispensation with Covenant ????

I have already shown the OIKONOMIA means House Law .

Ane Covenant DIATHEKE means agreement , contract , will , .

So where is the link ???

And I have a verse that says that they are NOT LINKED , BUT will wait on your verse that you will never find !!! dan p

I've already revealed what God's Word teaches about His "everlasting covenant" coming through His Israel that believed. You can't do anything about that, for what faithful Israel believed is The Gospel of Jesus Christ first given through them, and then to the Gentiles, in that order.

 

[dan p]

I've already revealed what God's Word teaches about His "everlasting covenant" coming through His Israel that believed. You can't do anything about that, for what faithful Israel believed is The Gospel of Jesus Christ first given through them, and then to the Gentiles, in that order.

Hi Veteran , and the only verse that talks about the " everlasting Covenant is in Heb 13:20 and how is it linked to what I have said as Hebrews is a Jewish book and where is the Body of Christ given a Covenant ??? dan p