In the Book of Jude, there's a curious reference to Enoch, the 7th from the man Adam.
Did Enoch know about Jesus?
Did Enoch know about Jesus?
Did Enoch Know About Our Lord Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter veteran
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
In the book of Enoch,Jesus is called the son of man,and the elect one.God is called the lord of spirits/
Yes.
(Gen 5:22)
And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
(Jud 1:14)
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(Jud 1:15)
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
how could he? ...........they lived nearly 3000 years apart..............contrary to some beliefs, jesus was never mentioned or illuded to in the scriptures or ideas in enoch's time
Okay, so what you guys think about the warnings to stay away from Enoch
because the book teaches doctrine which is opposed to the Bible?
... an Enoch neophyte, i.e. I know less than nothing about this
because the book teaches doctrine which is opposed to the Bible?
... an Enoch neophyte, i.e. I know less than nothing about this
Let's look at the 40th chapter of Enoch:
1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude
2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5 And the second voice I heard blessing
6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord
8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel. Gabriel and Michael are mentioned in more than one place. Phanuel is NEVER mentioned. Also, what is this doctrine that he is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. Is that not blasphemy? 1 Timothy 2:5 says that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone.
Here's chapter 48:1-3...
1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
First of all, students of God's Word will agree that this is not even "Bible talk" or Bible "language". "Head of Days", "Lord of Spirits?"
Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? Do you think this might go against deity of Christ? Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Contrary to claims that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch some 100 times, this is simply not the case.
We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12...
8 ...And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the
9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
12 it is consuming me.
Somebody certainly doesn't like wisdom to be put down in pen and ink? Hmmm, wonder who would want everything to be oral?
Anyway, it is preposterous that a demon taught men "all the secrets of wisdom". Pen and ink caused men to fall? I thought it was Adam's sin.
How about this? Men who were 450ft tall?
7:12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
7:13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
7:14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
7:15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.
A "cubit" is 1.5 feet. The ark which Noah built was 300 cubits long (Genesis 6:15).
1 And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude
2 beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learnt their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things.
3 And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.
4 The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever.
5 And the second voice I heard blessing
6 the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits.
7 And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord
8 of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden: ‘Who are these four presences which I have
9 seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days.
The Bible never mentions an angel named Phanuel. Gabriel and Michael are mentioned in more than one place. Phanuel is NEVER mentioned. Also, what is this doctrine that he is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. Is that not blasphemy? 1 Timothy 2:5 says that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone.
Here's chapter 48:1-3...
1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.
First of all, students of God's Word will agree that this is not even "Bible talk" or Bible "language". "Head of Days", "Lord of Spirits?"
Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? Do you think this might go against deity of Christ? Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Contrary to claims that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch some 100 times, this is simply not the case.
We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12...
8 ...And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the
9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
12 it is consuming me.
Somebody certainly doesn't like wisdom to be put down in pen and ink? Hmmm, wonder who would want everything to be oral?
Anyway, it is preposterous that a demon taught men "all the secrets of wisdom". Pen and ink caused men to fall? I thought it was Adam's sin.
How about this? Men who were 450ft tall?
7:12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
7:13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
7:14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
7:15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.
A "cubit" is 1.5 feet. The ark which Noah built was 300 cubits long (Genesis 6:15).
There's two versions of a book in print today called The Book of Enoch. One is from Ethiopic manuscripts dated very ancient, the other one appears to be a Gnostic pseudo version. So when someone quotes from The Book of Enoch they need to give the version, because the Gnostic version is clearly defunct.
There's many direct Bible Scripture parallels in the Ethiopic version of Enoch. Yet it also has some obvious translation errors. That's why it is left out of the Bible canon. We can't completely trust it as the original.
But we do have the Book of Jude reference to Enoch, which does reveal that Enoch knew about Christ's future second coming with ten thousands of His saints.
How could Enoch know? Simple. Enoch was taken up by The LORD, He walked with God like Genesis says. And Christ existed in Old Testament times too, since He is God The Saviour and The Father created all things through Christ.
Very interesting topic, Veteran. I've enjoyed reading it.
I thought I'll post the whole Scripture concerning the OP.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
I think it would be safe to say that Enoch was a prophet. And one of his prophecies was that of a coming judgement in which the Lord Jesus would come with his saints to judge the ungodly. This message would have applied both to his day, and to us now.
I thought I'll post the whole Scripture concerning the OP.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
I think it would be safe to say that Enoch was a prophet. And one of his prophecies was that of a coming judgement in which the Lord Jesus would come with his saints to judge the ungodly. This message would have applied both to his day, and to us now.
Yes, isn't it amazing that Enoch, the seventh from the man Adam, knew about Christ?
Gen.18 with one of the three men that appeared to Abraham hints as being our Lord Jesus Christ back in OT times. I believe Melchisedec was actually Christ in OT times, and his offering "bread and wine" to Abraham represented The Promise by Faith which Paul shows Abraham believed.
Adam surely testified quite a bit to Enoch since they would have lived at the same time. Enoch was 308 years old when Adam died.
Amo_3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Since "God" is "Christ" of Course Enoch knew of Christ. He walked with God, so He would have known the things of God and how He would create a new creation by the union of God with Flesh producing the Righteous Jesus, and the First begotten Son of God from the dead, Christ Jesus our Lord. Now, as the body of Christ Himself, WE, the tens of thousands of His Saints go forth proclaiming the Gospel of repentance from sins.
Enoch knew about this.
But the modern "Book of Enoch" is puedopygrapha, walked on by occultist for millenia. It is only a theft of a couple scriptural verses by which anyone could tie it together. What we have is sufficient to know out of Holy Writ. Enoch knew that Christ "Comes" in His "Body" of Believers called "saints". It is how the world is saved, "through the foolishness of preaching".
This is some pretty cool stuff :) Glad the topic came up.
Enoch knew about this.
But the modern "Book of Enoch" is puedopygrapha, walked on by occultist for millenia. It is only a theft of a couple scriptural verses by which anyone could tie it together. What we have is sufficient to know out of Holy Writ. Enoch knew that Christ "Comes" in His "Body" of Believers called "saints". It is how the world is saved, "through the foolishness of preaching".
This is some pretty cool stuff :) Glad the topic came up.
tim_from_pa
New Member
- Jul 11, 2007
- 1,656
- 13
- 0
- 66
Actually, that's the "common cubit" or "cubit of a man" (Duet 3:11). There was also the royal cubit (about 20.6") and what Sir Isaac Newton coined the sacred cubit (about 25") and is related to the polar diameter of the earth. The latter two are geometrically related and used in the Great Pyramid (Isaiah 19:19-20). Noah did not use the 18" cubit, and for sure, Solomon did not either in the temple. I thought I'd just point that out so that we don't get caught up in religious establishmentism where your average theologian claims the cubit was 18" and can't do the math very well (I guess that's just me since I'm a gnomonist). But one has to discern which cubit was used.
It's sort of like the book of Enoch that Veteran pointed out; I can see there's different renditions of it and I know enough to admit that we cannot be 100% certain about the book's proper translation. So it's not the book, per se, but the translation that has me wondering. Again, one has to discern, but I think very highly of Enoch overall.
25.0265 British inches or sacred cubit
Pyramid and its shadow, to a gnomonist I'll bet that's interesting,
I've seen some in my adventures around the internet, but its like you mentioned to Axehead, "one has to discern"
Pyramid and its shadow, to a gnomonist I'll bet that's interesting,
I've seen some in my adventures around the internet, but its like you mentioned to Axehead, "one has to discern"
You're right that we cannot trust the modern version of the Book of Enoch (I refer to the Ethiopic version). But it does have a great many direct Scripture paralles with Bible Scripture. Somewhere on the internet there was a pastor's show called From The Hip that covered all the Book of Enoch with showing each of those direct parallels when they came to it.
The first prophecy about Jesus is found in Genesis 3:15,
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.
The fact that Jude says something that is found in the book of Enoch doesn't prove he was quoting from that book. It is possible that he and the author of Enoch were both quoting from some source that has been lost.
Similar threads
