Did Eve commit sin even before she ate the fruit?

[Quantrill]

Men will literally sell their souls to please the women they love. Like sheep to
the slaughter. It's one of the oldest facts of life in the book.

Men's propensity to sell their souls to please the women they love preceded
the fall; which tells me that it's a natural drive with which men were created
rather than catching it like a disease. In other words: right out of the box,
men were inclined to listen to women rather than listen to God.

Seeing as how that's the way God created men, then the propensity to sell
their souls to please the women they love isn't sin in and of itself. No; it's
how men choose to satisfy their drives that's oftentimes sin. I mean,
shopping for shoes with your best girl, letting her pick the movies you're
going to watch together, letting her pick the restaurant where just the two of
you are going to eat and/or taking up bird watching and roller skating just to
make her happy isn't sin; that's perfectly okay.

But if she wants them to join a swingers group, experiment with drugs, drive
real fast, sacrifice a dog in a curious ritual, burn a Koran, throw red paint on
people who wear furs and/or any number of unacceptable behaviors and her
guy goes along with it just to make her happy; now he's got problems with
The Man and there's no one to blame but himself for being such a fool.

Buen Camino
/

Again, you miss the point. Adam was unfallen and not decieved. Adam had no false relationship with Eve in that he just wanted to please her. God was as much in Adams thoughts and decision as Eve was.

Quantrill

 

[Webers_Home]

Again, you miss the point.

I have no use for your point because it's wet behind the ears, and lacks the
slightest insight into the chemistry of human love. You may of course opt to
continue stressing your point in the hopes that I will finally "get it" but as
Einstein once said: "Insanity is doing the same thing the same way over and
over again expecting a different result."

Party on dude; and may the force be with you.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Quantrill]

I have no use for your point because it's wet behind the ears, and lacks the
slightest insight into the chemistry of human love. You may of course opt to
continue stressing your point in the hopes that I will finally "get it" but as
Einstein once said: "Insanity is doing the same thing the same way over and
over again expecting a different result."

Party on dude; and may the force be with you.

Buen Camino
/

I have no such hopes. And don't know any 'force'.

What Adam did certainly involved love. But not the shallow love you seem to describe. He didn't eat the fruit to please his wife because he loved her.

Quantrill


Quantrill

 

[HammerStone]

I've always assumed that Adam told Eve not to touch the fruit. I've based this on the passages where Adam is said to be the first sinner:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--

However, as Romans 5:12 so clearly says, all sinned. That includes Eve. However, the Pharisaic tendency was to establish another law in front of God's law to prevent breaking it. In Adam's case, he told Eve not to even touch the fruit surely to prevent her from eating it. I think we've far too long focused on the act of eating as the sin rather than the disobedience that led to consumption.

 

[Quantrill]

I've always assumed that Adam told Eve not to touch the fruit. I've based this on the passages where Adam is said to be the first sinner:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--

However, as Romans 5:12 so clearly says, all sinned. That includes Eve. However, the Pharisaic tendency was to establish another law in front of God's law to prevent breaking it. In Adam's case, he told Eve not to even touch the fruit surely to prevent her from eating it. I think we've far too long focused on the act of eating as the sin rather than the disobedience that led to consumption.

But....we know from Genesis that Eve ate first and is thus, the first sinner. We know however from Rom. 5 that you cite, that though Eve is the first sinner, the human race did not fall in Eve. It fell in Adam.

Adam was the head of the human race. Not Eve. When Eve sinned she was in the most desperate condition a human could be in because her head, Adam, had not sinned and was not lost. The human race was not fallen when Eve sinned, only Eve was lost.

In reality Adam could have asked God to get him another woman as this one has sinned against you. Adam could have remained unfallen along with the human race. And this is the reason I believe Adam ate the fruit. Adam knew God. He was unfallen and not decieved. He ate the fruit knowing he placed himself in a fallen state with Eve. Because he loved her. Not because he wanted to please her. He ate knowing God would get him back and that whatever it took for God to get him back would be sufficient to get Eve back also.

And isn't this exactly what happened. And isn't this exactly what the Last Adam also did for his bride.

Quantrill

 

[aspen]

I tend to believe that A&E sinned when they hide and lied to God about their disobedience - instead of trusting God and confessing and receiving His forgiveness and remaining vulnerable and naked before God, they asked God for clothing to hide their vulnerability, which placed a barrier between God and humanity. The clothes God made them represent the ego/false self and the banishment from the Garden was the end of their intimacy with God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

But....we know from Genesis that Eve ate first and is thus, the first sinner. We know however from Rom. 5 that you cite, that though Eve is the first sinner, the human race did not fall in Eve. It fell in Adam.

Adam was the head of the human race. Not Eve. When Eve sinned she was in the most desperate condition a human could be in because her head, Adam, had not sinned and was not lost. The human race was not fallen when Eve sinned, only Eve was lost.

In reality Adam could have asked God to get him another woman as this one has sinned against you. Adam could have remained unfallen along with the human race. And this is the reason I believe Adam ate the fruit. Adam knew God. He was unfallen and not decieved. He ate the fruit knowing he placed himself in a fallen state with Eve. Because he loved her. Not because he wanted to please her. He ate knowing God would get him back and that whatever it took for God to get him back would be sufficient to get Eve back also.

And isn't this exactly what happened. And isn't this exactly what the Last Adam also did for his bride.

Quantrill

I tend to agree with your assessment in regard to Adam's disobedience, but when God questioned Adam about what had happened, Adam was pretty quick to give Eve up, in spite of the fact that she was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. While Eve was the first to transgress God's commandment, the scripture does tell us that she was deceived and that God therefore imputed the sin to Adam. While the last Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ, did make a sacrifice on behalf of His bride, the church, the scripture also tells us that His sacrifice was done to please His Father as an expression of the Father's love for us, and there the analogy falls apart unless Adam knew more about God's redemptive plan than the scripture tells us. I suppose that we can ask the Lord about it when we see Him.

 

[Quantrill]

I tend to agree with your assessment in regard to Adam's disobedience, but when God questioned Adam about what had happened, Adam was pretty quick to give Eve up, in spite of the fact that she was bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. While Eve was the first to transgress God's commandment, the scripture does tell us that she was deceived and that God therefore imputed the sin to Adam. While the last Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ, did make a sacrifice on behalf of His bride, the church, the scripture also tells us that His sacrifice was done to please His Father as an expression of the Father's love for us, and there the analogy falls apart unless Adam knew more about God's redemptive plan than the scripture tells us. I suppose that we can ask the Lord about it when we see Him.

Adam made his decision prior to the fall. Prior to when he was a sinner. He was willing to blame, not Eve, but God, after the fall. He was now infected with the disease of sin also. So the analogy does not fall apart. Adam was doing for his wife what the Last Adam would do for His.

Quantrill

 

[michaelvpardo]

Adam made his decision prior to the fall. Prior to when he was a sinner. He was willing to blame, not Eve, but God, after the fall. He was now infected with the disease of sin also. So the analogy does not fall apart. Adam was doing for his wife what the Last Adam would do for His.

Quantrill

So, is Christ a minister of sin? Enlighten me.

 

[Quantrill]

So, is Christ a minister of sin? Enlighten me.

Not sure that's possible, as Im not sure what you mean.

Why ask if Christ is a minister of sin?

Quantrill

 

[michaelvpardo]

Not sure that's possible, as Im not sure what you mean.

Why ask if Christ is a minister of sin?

Quantrill

Never mind, forget about it, the question is probably as pointless as the topic.

 

[DaDad]

To All,

It would seem there are three aspects, the first being what the "original sin" was; the second, how it influenced Eve's understanding (i.e., response to satan); and finally how she then violated GOD's restriction.

I would propose that if this were simply a literal "fruit", she wouldn't have associated a "touch" connotation. However, if this were a personal interraction, then both the "touch" and "eating" would find a level of familiarity which both Adam and Eve should have shunned.

And of course, it was this level of familiarity ("touch" and "eat") which I would propose Eve responded to in her concept of the topic.


DaDad