Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

[Bible Highlighter]

You certainly have the right to disagree. I think however you're disagreeing with God, not me. God inspired James to write that Raʹhab the prostitute was declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way at James 2:25. That means that although Rahab told the king of Jerʹi·cho solders a lie when they asked where the spies were God considered everything Rahab did righteous because of her faith.

I believe James 2:25 just fine. Rahab did send the soldier out another way and God declared her righteous by this work. But the Scriptures don’t say Rahab lied like you do. You can make an assumption she lied, but the text does not specifically say she lied. I was able to explain how Rahab’s words to the guards could have been true from a certain point of view, as well. It’s also possible that God did not regard her speech as typical lying but as an art of war tactic, as well. While I do consider it a possibility that Rahab could have lied, it just seems like a very unlikely possibility in my humble opinion. It would cast doubt on James 2:25 because God would be commending her for an action that was precipitated by a lie.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Sorry, I respectfully disagree.

The devil is the father of lies.

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (John 8:44).

You certainly have the right to disagree. I think however you're disagreeing with God, not me. God inspired James to write that Raʹhab the prostitute was declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way at James 2:25. That means that although Rahab told the soldiers of king Jericho a lie about the spies God considered her righteous because of her faith.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Oh, i see--like flexing muscles at the beach?

Uh, no. That’s ridiculous.

No, none of your Bible verses addressed this. It is Jesus that is to be admired.

Yes, we are to admire Jesus who is God.
If we admire God, that means we are seeking God’s attention and admiration.

God loves humility, and Job and David loved him very ,very much. David wrote bookoo songs about him, and the lord spoke about Job as one who loved Him. Impress smacks a bit of pride, a show off-y kind of thing.

You missed the point with Job, and David.
God was impressed with Job.

“And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?” (Job 1:8).

Wouldn’t you want God to say that about you?
So this lets us know that we can be like a Job and try to impress God in the same way.

David was a man after God’s own heart.
He was chasing after God’s heart. God’s admiration is the seat of God’s heart.

Jesus marveled at the Centurion’s faith.
Jesus is God.
Would you not want Jesus (God) to marvel at your faith?
That is the kind admiration I am talking about here.
That’s what I am talking about when I say I desire to impress God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You certainly have the right to disagree. I think however you're disagreeing with God, not me. God inspired James to write that Raʹhab the prostitute was declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way at James 2:25. That means that although Rahab told the soldiers of king Jericho a lie about the spies God considered her righteous because of her faith.

As I told you, I am not in disagreement with James 2:25. But again, you will not find anywhere in Scripture of it saying that Rahab lied. Nowhere. Zip. Nadda. It is your own imagination or interpretation of the text that she lied. Now, can a surface reading of Joshua 2:4-5 make you believe she lied? Sure. That’s what I believe you’ve got. Only a surface reading. Like a hand moving across the surface of the ocean, but without it truly going any further into the depth of what the text could really mean any further.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You certainly have the right to disagree. I think however you're disagreeing with God, not me. God inspired James to write that Raʹhab the prostitute was declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way at James 2:25. That means that although Rahab told the soldiers of king Jericho a lie about the spies God considered her righteous because of her faith.

Barney: Is the devil the father of lies according to John 8:44?
Yes, or no? If you say… yes. Then you must believe Rahab was partaking in being involved in the devil’s ways who is the father of lies. Yet, God was commending her for a later action that was tied to this sinful action that is a part of the father of lies? This is the problem I have with her lying and God later commending her for a related action that was tied to this lie. But God cannot lie. So why would His Word say something like this? It sounds like something does not add up here. Again, I am not saying that it’s not possible that she didn’t lie. But we would need a really darn good reason why that would make sense out of James 2:25 (if that was the case).

 

[GEN2REV]

So did Rahab lie?

Lying is not really 'technically' a sin that is specifically spoken of in the Bible.

There are actually mutliple Biblical heroes in the Bible that lied and the context gives no impression whatsoever that it was anything less than righteous behavior.

The Commandment that is usually attributed to lying is the Ninth and it states "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."

This is more about gossiping and destroying someone's good name or reputation for self gain. It is a lie, but it's not the simple act of speaking something that is technically not true that is really the specified sin.

Having said that, Christians should strive to avoid dishonesty when possible. But if it is for the good, the safety or the well-being, of yourself or a loved one, God is not going to count it against you if you tell an untruth as a reasonable means to a preferable end.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lying is not really 'technically' a sin that is specifically spoken of in the Bible.

Not true.

Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the lake which burns with fire (Which is the second death).

Revelation 21:8 says,
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

John 8:44 basically says that the devil is the father of lies.

John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Ghost and died (See: Acts of the Apostles 5).

Colossians 3:9 says, “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the oldman with his deeds;”

1 John 1:6 says: “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk indarkness, we lie, and do not the truth:”

Revelation 22:14-15 says:

14 “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

 

[GEN2REV]

Not true.

Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the lake which burns with fire (Which is the second death).

Revelation 21:8 says,
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

John 8:44 basically says that the devil is the father of lies.

John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Ghost and died (See: Acts of the Apostles 5).

Colossians 3:9 says, “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the oldman with his deeds;”

1 John 1:6 says: “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk indarkness, we lie, and do not the truth:”

Revelation 22:14-15 says:

14 “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

Fair enough.

I know that there are at least a few stories of people lying in the OT as a means to an end and there is nothing to indicate that they are anything less than righteous heroes. Also the 10 Commandments don't specifically speak of it, BUT all the verses you referenced are obviously legit.

I'm not sure where God draws the line, but there are more than just Rahab who lied and it wasn't held against them so .... go figure.

There must be some identifiable distinction about the act of lying. All those who loveth and maketh a lie is almost certainly speaking of spreading False Doctrine; lying about matters of the Bible. Pastors and Preachers that lie to make a buck; and out of a lack of love for the Truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Fair enough.

I know that there are at least a few stories of people lying in the OT as a means to an end and there is nothing to indicate that they are anything less than righteous heroes. Also the 10 Commandments don't specifically speak of it, BUT all the verses you referenced are obviously legit.

I'm not sure where God draws the line, but there are more than just Rahab who lied and it wasn't held against them so .... go figure.

There must be some identifiable distinction about the act of lying. All those who loveth and maketh a lie is almost certainly speaking of spreading False Doctrine; lying about matters of the Bible. Pastors and Preachers that lie to make a buck; and out of a lack of love for the Truth.

I would encourage you to do a topical study on lying by asking GOD’s help on the matter, and then read through everything in this thread.

Side Note:

Look at the different variations on the word “lie” at BlueLetterBible (like liars, lying, etc.).

 

[L.A.M.B.]

If this was meant towards my apologetics, then I take that as a compliment.
Defending certain good things in the Bible does not make one popular these days.



Grace, and peace, and love be unto them. We can agree to disagree in love and respect I hope (even if it may be a hot button issue for some).



Yep. I am not against these things. She was harlot and in the line of Christ. But she did not remain as a harlot (as far as we know) because she joined the Israelites.



When it comes to basic morality? Yes. Read Romans 2:14. The Gentiles were able to keep the Law without having it. This would obviously be the moral law that is instinctual to mankind. Granted, many men can bury their moral compass (of course).



I believe God is sovereign; But I am not a Calvinist, though.



Been consuming the Word for many years with God’s help. I am not perfect, and I have changed on 19 things theologically over the years.

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

Well, this would be 20 if you include this topic.

I care NOT for apologetics, there is zero reason to argue the Word of God, and it is actually fruitless.
There are not many who are serious bible students who will change there minds.
Nor those who have been deeply indoctrinated will change either except by the Holy Spirit

I actually see no reason for this topic as it does not enhance salvation nor our walk.It just for flack.

When the time comes to make a choice of what is right or wrong in a decision of protection, whomever BETTER PRAY FIRST!

I THINK MOST THAT COME HERE HAVE MOTIVES THAT ARE NOT SIGNED BY GOD !

Jesus said 1 .love God with everything you've got or are. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. These 2 and the whole Word of God taught by the Spirit is all anyone needs for a moral compass. Furthermore we each will answer only for self.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

As I told you, I am not in disagreement with James 2:25. But again, you will not find anywhere in Scripture of it saying that Rahab lied. Nowhere. Zip. Nadda. It is your own imagination or interpretation of the text that she lied. Now, can a surface reading of Joshua 2:4-5 make you believe she lied? Sure. That’s what I believe you’ve got. Only a surface reading. Like a hand moving across the surface of the ocean, but without it truly going any further into the depth of what the text could really mean any further.

The fact that she said she didn't know where they went when she had hid them on the roof among stalks of flax means she knew exactly where they went. They went on the roof with her when she hid them among the stalks of flax. What she told king Jericho soldiers wasn't true. Rahab knew exactly where they went since as I said the scriptures show us that they went on the roof with her where she hid them.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Barney: Is the devil the father of lies according to John 8:44?
Yes, or no? If you say… yes. Then you must believe Rahab was partaking in being involved in the devil’s ways who is the father of lies. Yet, God was commending her for a later action that was tied to this sinful action that is a part of the father of lies? This is the problem I have with her lying and God later commending her for a related action that was tied to this lie. But God cannot lie. So why would His Word say something like this? It sounds like something does not add up here. Again, I am not saying that it’s not possible that she didn’t lie. But we would need a really darn good reason why that would make sense out of James 2:25 (if that was the case).

Lying is the opposite of truth so I'm thinking you honestly believe that both Abraham and Isaac were telling the truth when they made everyone believe that their wives were just their sisters. You're saying they were being honest and truthful?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

First, God commissioned Samson as a judge to take down evil people like the Philistines. So it was not a sin for him to do what he did.

In all fairness to @LadyofFireandLace she was citing David (when he killed the Philistines to obtain their foreskins to marry Saul’s daughter), not Samson.

 

[Grailhunter]

Just for general information. There is a thread on lying and I did not respond to it.

Lying and trickery in the Old Testament and in Middle Eastern culture. It is actually a pretty deep topic.

First off as for as Rahab and her deception.
Rahab was a prostitute and and some believe even a medium...seer, because of what she said about knowing that Yahweh had given them the land. Her name also appears in the Bible and Jewish folklore as a dragon. References to this in the scriptures are Psalms 87:4, Psalms 89:10, and Isaiah 51:9

Rahab worked with Joshua's men...in his effort to conquer the city of Jericho as was directed by God Himself. You may have heard that Yeshua's name was a very common name in His time period and the Old Testament ....that is true. Joshua is a mistranslation.....No "J's" in the scriptures, Old or New Testament. His actual name was Yeshua.

Rahab hid Joshua's men and lied to the king. She made an agreement with Joshua's men that if she helped them that she and her family would be saved. Was that wrong? No, for a few reasons.

The Bible makes it clear that she is a believer in Yahweh as she is in awe of Him. So she was justified by both Faith and Good Deeds. James seemed to agree with this...in James 2:24-25, she was used as an example; "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?" ....and since she also believed in Yahweh, it was also a matter of faith. As it also appears she had an interest in changing her ways and joining the Israelites.

So in the end after Jericho fell to the army of Yeshua, Rahab and her whole family were preserved according to the promise of the spies, and she joined the Israelite people. She married Salmon of the Israelite Tribe of Judah and was the mother of Boaz. Christ also belonged to the Tribe of Judah. Salmon is listed in the bloodline of Christ, so Rahab is also in that bloodline as was her son Boaz. So it appears that Rahab found favor with Yahweh. According to the Talmud she repented of her sins.

Now as far as lying. Technically the Bible denounces lying...there is also bearing a false witness against those that are accused of wrong doing. The function of the Law was dependent upon the honesty of witnesses, but there is more details to that....in practice it is a matter of intent. In this time period as is today in the Middle East, trickery can be considered as a form of intelligence....sounds weird? Yahweh said, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Jacob used trickery to best Esau and Laban and David and Hercules used trickery. Abraham was considered righteous but he would deceive people by saying Sarah was only his sister. (Which she was his half sister, but she was also his wife.) It is a topic, being smart enough to outwit someone. And it is a cultural thing even today in the Middle East. As a military person I can tell you that trickery is often used as a strategy. As a historian, I can tell you that trickery has been used in a lot ancient battles.

Christians have been taught to be honest and overall I agree. But if you always tell the truth anybody can pry into your personal life and you are obliged to answer truthfully. Not answering can be an answer.

Putting it into another perspective....we should not deceive for personal gain or benefit. Keeping a birthday party a secret or a gift a secret does not count. I do not even call it a white lie. Telling someone that is buying your car that you know of no issues....when you do know there are issues....is a lie. People have to use their own conscience on such matters.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

James 2:25
“Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?”

Joshua 2:4-6
4 “And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were:
5 And it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark, that the men went out: whither the men went I wot not: pursue after them quickly; for ye shall overtake them.
6 But she had brought them up to the roof of the house, and hid them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order upon the roof.”

That is tough isn't it BH. Christians are taught to conduct themselves honestly in all things, and I work very hard at not lying, even when people push hard for me to do so. I did succumb to it a couple of months ago, but I definitely do my utmost to not lie. I think if I would have been in that position I would have exercised Ecc 3:7 not saying anything

 

[DuckieLady]

Okay. First, God commissioned Samson as a judge to take down evil people like the Philistines. So it was not a sin for him to do what he did. Second, you are trying to compare Rahab’s situation to the dark times of Judges (Which is an especially dark time period in Israelite history). Did you read the conclusion of that book?



The big picture is God is good and God is love.
This is in line with verses like Revelation 21:8, and John 8:44.
Revelation 21:8 says all liars will not be cast into the lake of fire.
John 8:44 basically says that the devil is the father of lies.



And what perspective would that be?

Part of God's love is his ultimate wisdom.

I think you might be missing the point.

But you brought up the point-

First, God commissioned Samson as a judge to take down evil people like the Philistines. So it was not a sin for him to do what he did.

We're talking about David.

But it's not a sin, why? Because then let's put Rahab's in the same kind of place. Would God be angry with her because of her obedience in protecting the men?

Second, you are trying to compare Rahab’s situation to the dark times of Judges (Which is an especially dark time period in Israelite history).

Her family would have been killed so I'm pretty sure that was dark enough for anyone.

The big picture is God is good and God is love.
This is in line with verses like Revelation 21:8, and John 8:44.
Revelation 21:8 says all liars will not be cast into the lake of fire.
John 8:44 basically says that the devil is the father of lies.

I believe God understands us and our motives - meaning He is an honest, compassionate, and merciful judge. I believe he cares about us and sees us as human beings who make mistakes.

I'm not saying we should tread on his grace, but that we should know He understands us. Everyone is so focused on a lie from Rahab, you miss the point that she was a prostitute.

So where is the message there that God still used a mistake from a sinful woman?

But I will use a note from Samson -

Judges 14:4

His parents did not know that this was from the LORD, who was seeking an occasion to confront the Philistines; for at that time they were ruling over Israel.

This verse is in reference to a relationship with a Philistine woman, that absolutely wasn't going to work out and it turned out horribly.

But note, "it was from the LORD."

Why?

Because He is good and had purpose. We are not wiser.

Why are we not paying attention to that side of the truth?

Jesus is the perfect one and not us.
God is all-knowing and more patient with us than we give him credit for.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The fact that she said she didn't know where they went when she had hid them on the roof among stalks of flax means she knew exactly where they went. They went on the roof with her when she hid them among the stalks of flax. What she told king Jericho soldiers wasn't true. Rahab knew exactly where they went since as I said the scriptures show us that they went on the roof with her where she hid them.

No sir, she said she did know where they were headed. Which is true because she did not know the final destination.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lying is the opposite of truth so I'm thinking you honestly believe that both Abraham and Isaac were telling the truth when they made everyone believe that their wives were just their sisters. You're saying they were being honest and truthful?

Lot is actually Abraham’s nephew and yet he calls him brother (Genesis 14:14). So words like brother or sister have a wide semantic scope of meaning in their culture, and it could be in reference to any male relative from a different mother and father. Sarah was Abraham’s half sister and so he was not lying. Abraham did not say that she wasn’t his wife. He still told the truth in that she was his sister (Which is a true statement). The same applies to Isaac and Rebecca in that they both were related to each other.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I care NOT for apologetics, there is zero reason to argue the Word of God, and it is actually fruitless.
There are not many who are serious bible students who will change there minds.
Nor those who have been deeply indoctrinated will change either except by the Holy Spirit

I actually see no reason for this topic as it does not enhance salvation nor our walk.It just for flack.

When the time comes to make a choice of what is right or wrong in a decision of protection, whomever BETTER PRAY FIRST!

I THINK MOST THAT COME HERE HAVE MOTIVES THAT ARE NOT SIGNED BY GOD !

Jesus said 1 .love God with everything you've got or are. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. These 2 and the whole Word of God taught by the Spirit is all anyone needs for a moral compass. Furthermore we each will answer only for self.

So you would rather have people misunderstand the Bible and walk away from the faith because you don't care to give sound explanations of what is really going on? That does not sound very loving of others. Did not Jesus expound upon the Scriptures? Did not the apostles explain what God's Word means to others? Apologetics is a way of explaining things in God's Word.

 

[Nancy]

1 Samuel 21:13
"So he pretended to be insane in their presence; and while he was in their hands he acted like a madman, making marks on the doors of the gate and letting saliva run down his beard."
Did David lie here?