Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Look more carefully at her words. It could be read that way, but it also could be read in a way that she was referring to the spies’ final end destination. For if you took her words and placed it into the context of that kind of saying… and it fits… then viola…. I am right. Her words appear to fit as being spoken in a way that is clever word play, just like Jesus did many times saying things like… destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again. The Jews misunderstood Jesus because they thought he was referring to the most obvious thing just like you are doing. The Bible is not like a newspaper or magazine. It’s spiritual and it sometimes has hidden meanings within it.

I disagree, the scriptures make it clear that she made it appear to the soldiers that she didn't know where the spies were. She said that to the soldiers while the spies were hidden on her roof. So Rahab knew exactly where the spies were when she told the soldiers she didn't no where they had gone.

 

[Mink57]

Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

Instead of looking at it from God's possible point of view towards Rahab as to whether or not she lied, maybe first try to determine God's point of view of the pursuers...and ask, "Did the pursuers deserve to hear the truth about the whereabouts of those two men from Rahab?"

According to the Catholic Catechism:
"The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it." (CCC 2488)

Of course, not everyone practices 'fraternal love' (love of one's neighbor). Not everyone has ours...or other's best interests at heart. So, we have to be able to judge each situation as to whether or not the truth is warranted.

The Catechism goes on to say:

"Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known, or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it." (CCC 2488)

In Rahab's case, I don't see that she used "discreet language". She plainly told the pursuers that the two men "left" her house, with the belief that they were still hidden among her flax. She expected them to be in the same place she left them, since she returned there, after the pursuers departed.

Rahab's words to the pursuers were in the interest of the "good and safety" not only of the two men she hid, but for Joshua's mission...which was actually God's mission.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

At Genesis 12:10-13 Abraham led Pharaoh and his people to believe that Sarah was only his wife by telling his wife Sarah to tell Pharoah and his people that she was only his wife.

Genesis 11:31 says that Sarai was Abram’s sister (in law).

Genesis 11:31
“And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife;”

Looking at the text below, we see Abram just tell Sarai that he was his sister (Which is true based on Genesis 11:31).
Nowhere do we see any of the Egyptians ask Abram if he was his wife with him saying… “no.”

Genesis 12:10-13
10 “And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:
12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.”

Hiding a truth is not a lie.
You are making assumptions into the text that simply is not there.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

Instead of looking at it from God's possible point of view towards Rahab as to whether or not she lied, maybe first try to determine God's point of view of the pursuers...and ask, "Did the pursuers deserve to hear the truth about the whereabouts of those two men from Rahab?"

According to the Catholic Catechism:
"The right to the communication of the truth is not unconditional. Everyone must conform his life to the Gospel precept of fraternal love. This requires us in concrete situations to judge whether or not it is appropriate to reveal the truth to someone who asks for it." (CCC 2488)

Of course, not everyone practices 'fraternal love' (love of one's neighbor). Not everyone has ours...or other's best interests at heart. So, we have to be able to judge each situation as to whether or not the truth is warranted.

The Catechism goes on to say:

"Charity and respect for the truth should dictate the response to every request for information or communication. The good and safety of others, respect for privacy, and the common good are sufficient reasons for being silent about what ought not be known, or for making use of a discreet language. The duty to avoid scandal often commands strict discretion. No one is bound to reveal the truth to someone who does not have the right to know it." (CCC 2488)

In Rahab's case, I don't see that she used "discreet language". She plainly told the pursuers that the two men "left" her house, with the belief that they were still hidden among her flax. She expected them to be in the same place she left them, since she returned there, after the pursuers departed.

Rahab's words to the pursuers were in the interest of the "good and safety" not only of the two men she hid, but for Joshua's mission...which was actually God's mission.

Sorry. No offense, but the catechism has absolutely zero authority here. It’s the Bible that has all true authority because we know it is divine in origin and there are many proofs that back up the Bible and genuine believers have been changed spiritually by the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I disagree, the scriptures make it clear that she made it appear to the soldiers that she didn't know where the spies were. She said that to the soldiers while the spies were hidden on her roof. So Rahab knew exactly where the spies were when she told the soldiers she didn't no where they had gone.

I am not discounting the possibility that Rahab lied. In my post #2, I made it clear that I believe in three possibilities, and this is one of them. I think folks simply don’t care to investigate this further and they just read the text with a surface reading and that’s it. No need to be a good Berean and search out the Scriptures on this matter. Nothing new to learn here. Anyways, my concern is not really that Rahab lied, but with folks voting in the poll in saying that God commended Rahab for lying. Even most Christian articles that believe Rahab lied do not even teach that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If someone was going to kill my neighbor, and I could stop it by killing the killer but didn't because God said thou shalt not kill. That's wrong.
Now if I could stop it but didn't because lying is a sin...c'mon that would be pathetic

See my post #2. I hold to two possibilities (one of which is Rahab lying, the second she used clever word play like Jesus did at times). Anyways, my issue is folks voting in the poll and saying… “yes” to God commending Rahab for lying. Nothing in the text indicates God’s approval of her lying.

 

[Mink57]

See my post #2. I hold to three possibilities (one of which is Rahab lying, the second is she employed an art of war strategy, and the third is she used clever word play like Jesus did at times). Anyways, my issue is folks voting in the poll and saying… “yes” to God commending Rahab for lying. Nothing in the text indicates God’s approval of her lying.

And nothing in the text indicates God's disapproval of her lying.

 

[farouk]

And nothing in the text indicates God's disapproval of her lying.

@Mink57 I think the original shows that Rahab was an inn-keeper. Calling her a harlot was more of a social commentary; the primary meaning seems to have been 'female inn-keeper'.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Someone who would risk their life to protect another isn't a liar even if they had to lie to protect them.

I believe in the art of war possibility. But it would not be considered the breaking of the 9th commandment.

In either case, the church is not commanded to go to war physically with other nations like God commanded the Israelites. Jesus and His followers taught Non-Violence. So it seems unlikely that we could employ this kind of tactic today even if it was applicable during the times of the Old Testament. For we are not in any kind of physical battle, but a spiritual one. There is no teaching in the New Testament that clarifies this issue, and the New Testament stresses lying in general is bad and leads to the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8), and is of the father of lies (John 8:44).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And nothing in the text indicates God's disapproval of her lying.

And nothing to show His approval, either. You cannot make an argument on silence. We know taking life in war time is not murder because God actually tells the Israelites to wipe out (take the life of) certain nations. But we do not see anywhere of God telling us to lie in war time. If He did, it would make it appear like Hebrews 6:18 saying, “it was impossible for God to lie” would be untrue.

We do see deception used at the Battle of AI with our Lord (Joshua 8), but that’s not exactly lying in every case. I believe there is good deception (one’s actions are not untrue although can be misleading), and bad sinful deception (Telling a lie with one’s actions that could not be understood any other way but as a lie). Granted, I do hold to the possibility that the art of war strategy involving Rahab whereby it would not be the breaking of the 9th commandment. But Scripture is not so clear on this one (to my knowledge).

 

[Mink57]

And nothing to show His approval, either. You cannot make an argument on silence. We know taking life in war time is not murder because God actually tells the Israelites to wipe out (take the life of) certain nations. But we do not see anywhere of God telling us to lie in war time. We do see deception used at the Battle of AI with our Lord (Joshua 8), but that’s not exactly lying in every case. I believe there is good deception (one’s actions are not untrue although can be misleading), and bad sinful deception (Telling a lie with one’s actions that could not be understood any other way but as a lie).

While much of what you say is true, I think you're missing the whole point of the story of Rahab.

There were some in the Bible who God considered to be "righteous", even though we know they committed some sinful acts. Noah and David for example.

The point of the story of Rahab was her faith; not whether or not she lied. Besides, lying is a forgivable sin.

Personally, *I* forgive her.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Gotta run to work.
Possibly be back later (Lord willing).

 

[farouk]

While much of what you say is true, I think you're missing the whole point of the story of Rahab.

There were some in the Bible who God considered to be "righteous", even though we know they committed some sinful acts. Noah and David for example.

The point of the story of Rahab was her faith; not whether or not she lied. Besides, lying is a forgivable sin.

Personally, *I* forgive her.

@Mink57 Rahab's faith is commended in Hebrews 11.......

 

[Mink57]

@Mink57 Rahab's faith is commended in Hebrews 11.......

I know. But Bible Highlighter can't seem to reconcile this in her own mind.

Too much 'letter' of the law, and not enough spirit of the law.

 

[farouk]

I know. But Bible Highlighter can't seem to reconcile this in her own mind.

Too much 'letter' of the law, and not enough spirit of the law.

@Mink57 The writer to the Hebrews picks out the really significant aspect of Rahab's life, right?

 

[Mink57]

@Mink57 The writer to the Hebrews picks out the really significant aspect of Rahab's life, right?

I agree.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Mink57 Rahab's faith is commended in Hebrews 11.......

Right, not discounting that.
Faith in what though?

Hebrews 11:31 KJV
“By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.”

She is commended for her faith in receiving the spies with peace and not for lying.

James 2:25 KJV
“Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?”

She was justified by works when she received the spies and sent them out another way.

Again it does not commend her for lying.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Genesis 11:31 says that Sarai was Abram’s sister (in law).

Genesis 11:31
“And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife;”

Looking at the text below, we see Abram just tell Sarai that he was his sister (Which is true based on Genesis 11:31).
Nowhere do we see any of the Egyptians ask Abram if he was his wife with him saying… “no.”

Genesis 12:10-13
10 “And there was a famine in the land: and Abram went down into Egypt to sojourn there; for the famine was grievous in the land.
11 And it came to pass, when he was come near to enter into Egypt, that he said unto Sarai his wife, Behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman to look upon:
12 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they shall say, This is his wife: and they will kill me, but they will save thee alive.
13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.”

Hiding a truth is not a lie.
You are making assumptions into the text that simply is not there.

At Genesis 20:12 the scriptures show that Sarai is the daughter of Abraham's father but not the daughter of his mother so Sarai was Abraham's half sister. However even though Sarai was the half sister of Abram she was also his wife. However by Abram telling his wife Sarai to say to Pharoah and his people that she was only his sister was leading pharoah and his people to believe that his wife Sarai was only his sister and not his wife. So Abram wasn't being truthful to Pharoah regarding Sarai, he led him to believe a lie, because a lie is the opposite of truth.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I am not discounting the possibility that Rahab lied. In my post #2, I made it clear that I believe in three possibilities, and this is one of them. I think folks simply don’t care to investigate this further and they just read the text with a surface reading and that’s it. No need to be a good Berean and search out the Scriptures on this matter. Nothing new to learn here. Anyways, my concern is not really that Rahab lied, but with folks voting in the poll in saying that God commended Rahab for lying. Even most Christian articles that believe Rahab lied do not even teach that.

People need to understand the truth about the True God YHWH, which is that when it comes to malicious lies the True God is against and always will be against malicious lies, because malicious lies are designed to harm people. However hiding the truth by a lie to protect someone such as a servant of the True God or a servant of the True God to hide the truth to protect himself/herself, the True God doesn't judge. God can read minds and hearts so God knows why you hide a truth from someone.

 

[Mink57]

Right, not discounting that.
Faith in what though?

Hebrews 11:31 KJV
“By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.”

She is commended for her faith in receiving the spies with peace and not for lying.

She is commended for her faith in GOD (YHWH). She demonstrated her faith by receiving the spies in peace.

James 2:25 KJV
“Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?”

She was justified by works when she received the spies and sent them out another way.

Again it does not commend her for lying.

Yes.

Lying had little to do with what she did.