Did Jesus' death on the cross deal with everyone's (all) sin?
I am curious what others think and why so please give scripture support. :)
I am curious what others think and why so please give scripture support. :)
Did Jesus' death on the cross deal with everyone's sin?
- Thread starter jiggyfly
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You simply cannot kill the Light of every man which comes into the world without essentially killing every man:
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 ASV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15. and he died for all, that they that live should no longer live unto themselves, but unto him who for their sakes died and rose again.
Walk back into the Light because you were dragged unto the Last Adam at the Cross and likewise raised back up in him. :)
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 ASV
14. For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15. and he died for all, that they that live should no longer live unto themselves, but unto him who for their sakes died and rose again.
Walk back into the Light because you were dragged unto the Last Adam at the Cross and likewise raised back up in him. :)
1 Timothy 4:10 ESV
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
I do not subscribe to universalism, but I've always thought this verse interesting. Clearly Jesus died for all, but also especially for those who believe. So, Jesus's death was sufficient to handle everyone, but his death was only efficient for those who believe.
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
I do not subscribe to universalism, but I've always thought this verse interesting. Clearly Jesus died for all, but also especially for those who believe. So, Jesus's death was sufficient to handle everyone, but his death was only efficient for those who believe.
That would explain why, in Revelation 20:15, some people have their names written in the Book of Life and some don't.HammerStone said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yes. But just like Baptism on the Apostasy thread, if there is not a heart change in response to His sacrifice, there is no redemption. His sacrifice is not magic - without our participation, there is no relationship.jiggyfly said:
It does deal with everyone's sin but in two different ways. Christ's friends receive the Baptism of the Spirit of God and everyone Else receives The baptism of fire that burns away the tares.jiggyfly said:
Matthew 3
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Matthew 13
40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Luke 12
49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
John 15
13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
He died for everyone for he could only do it once. However only those who put their faith in his death burial and resurrection can receive it, for it is foolishness to them that are perishing. The JUST shall live by faith... by stepping out on God's promises to believe before you see the manifestation of the thing hoped for.jiggyfly said:
All shall live again, it just depends on the destination that they have chosen for themselves with their FREE WILL to choose eternal life(WITH GOD) or eternal death(WITHOUT GOD).
1 Cor 1:17-19
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
KJV
It is only by the Spirit of God that one can be born again from above and inherit the kingdom of God because flesh and blood is not able to receive the things of God to be transformed by the renewing of their mind~
Some very good comments and scriptures. But I have another question. Why are believers so focused on sin if Christ already dealt with it at the cross?
Because if you continue to sin you will not be eligible to inherit the kingdom of God. And we shall reap exactly as we have sown, in this life and in the life to come. So hopefully we are storing up some treasures in heaven and renewing our minds to the things of God.jiggyfly said:
Sickness and disease(dis-ease) poverty and torment come from living a life of sin... Jesus came to take away our sins... Not to just cover them up so that we can continue to live lawless... BUT TAKE AWAY our sins as we self sacrifice our fleshly desires daily that are not becoming of a child of God by US abiding in the Word and the Word in us. Not everyone who says Lord,Lord will he recognize as a part of his HOLY BLAMELESS BODY.
1 Cor 6:9-13
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
KJV
Gal 5:16-21
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV
Don't you believe that Jesus' blood sacrifice was adequate for the forgiveness of sin? It seems that you are prescribing a salvation message of works.afaithfulone4u said:
Have you considered what Paul wrote to the believers @ Colossi?
What is the first thing we are commanded to do? REPENT, meaning to turn away from our sin.jiggyfly said:
Saved and chosen to rule and reign with Christ in the kingdom of God are two different things. We could NEVER be good enough in ourselves to save our self so salvation is not by works in our own ability.
But when Jesus died he not only paid our sin debt to redeem mankind from total destruction, but made the Spirit of God available to us to help us overcome the lusts of our flesh that keeps us bondage to walking in the flesh which is enmity towards God.
All sins may be covered by the blood as His Son could only be offered once, but it is by the GRACIOUSNESS of God to give us a chance to be bought back in the first place. But if we continue to walk in the flesh we are enemies of God for flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 15:51
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV
If we remain liars, cheats, coveter's, fornicators, adulterer's, murderer's etc.... then the world will remain in the same ungodly condition it is in now and is ready to be destroyed due to it.
Sin causes death, disease and poverty we MUST renew our minds to be transformed into the image(attributes) of God's SEED who is The Christ as a child of God, no longer the seed of the serpent that steals, kills and destroys from us by tempting us to sin against God so that the curse comes instead of the Blessings of God.
Do you see the condition of the world? Does this world seem blessed or cursed? Jesus died 2,000 yrs. ago for whom so ever will, but the devil is still tempting man to sin and sin brings forth death. So if Jesus' sacrifice made everything perfect without works, then why is the world so deep in sin and destruction?
The answer is we must fight the good fight of faith with our spiritual sWord which is the Word of God being written on our heart's to become doers of the Word and coming out of our mouths to fight in the Spirit the wiles of the devil as Jesus did in his wilderness temptations, because our flesh man is going to be tried and tested and must be cut and burned away by the Spirit and the Word working in us to create in us a new heart and new thinking and new doing that must line up with the Word of God for thy Rod/Word and thy staff thy comfort me. The Good Shepherd is The Word and we must stay in line on the straight path to life.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
KJV
Once we come to Christ, our PAST SINS are forgiven... but we must continue to walk with Christ as we grow into the likeness of him and while we may stumble and fall in our short comings, if we ask to be forgiven he is faithful to forgive... but not if we just live like the devil thinking that we can live lawless and still inherit the kingdom of God.. That is not a repentant heart but one who has BELIEVED THE LIE and did not love the truth... thy Word is Truth.
Rom 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV
My short reply would be the notion of antinomianism, jiggy. A larger response would be simply the mystery of salvation. Yes Christ has redeemed us, but Christ is also redeeming us and will redeem us. We are a work in progress, a working being sanctified. Sometimes the Eastern Orthodox face has a better grasp on elucidating this concept, I believe, but we tend to be a salvation culture obsessed with that one moment in time.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ESV
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
The Bible employs a present tense three times to say "being saved." Sin becomes a focus because as our minds are transformed, the deeds become repulsive, even if we struggle.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ESV
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
The Bible employs a present tense three times to say "being saved." Sin becomes a focus because as our minds are transformed, the deeds become repulsive, even if we struggle.
Because of scriptures like this that make it plain that you must repent and sin no more.jiggyfly said:
John 5
14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."
John 8
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."
Hebrews 10
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Very good post, first metanoeo, the Greek word translated as repent means to change the way you think. Second, I do definitely agree that there is a difference between those who are saved and those who are chosen to be part of the ekklesia. Maybe it is necessary to define what we mean by salvation and we can then discuss things being on the same page.afaithfulone4u said:
I believe salvation is reconciliation with God the Father through Christ the Son. Some are reconciled here in this life and are part of the matured ekklesia, others are reconciled in the coming event where Father works through Israel drawing them to Christ and then most, those remaining, through what most consider as hell. All measures are Father bringing everything together in Christ Jesus.
This is how Jesus is the Savior of all and reconciling all back to Father. Christ is the Good News and He is the only source of reconciliation with Father. Now spiritual growth is something that is indicative of how God is working in us. If we resist His working now then it will be accomplished through other measures.
But make no mistake Father will have what He has purposed.
Wish I had more time to respond, but I will have to get to this later. These scriptures must be kept within their context to get proper understanding. Thanks for your patience.zhavoney said:
Thanks for replying Hammer, as I responded to Zhavoney, I will reply asap, thanks for your patience too.HammerStone said:
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