Did Jesus return around 70 AD?

[TribulationSigns]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city (Jerusalem) which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

This has nothing to do with Matthew 11. You have misapplied Scripture and confused yourself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You guys keep going back and forth getting nowhere because you don't understand exactly what Jerusalem is?

Is Jerusalem a literal city or a type of people?

Jerusalem can be a literal city

Jerusalem can be people like in Matthew chapter 23

Jerusalem is also the church the New Jerusalem

We're going back and forth because he refuses to acknowledge the verses (John 19:20, Hebrews 13:12) which say that Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem, thereby causing Jesus to have contradicted those verses. In Luke 13:33-34 Jesus used the term Jerusalem to refer to the people of Jerusalem who killed the prophets and those sent to them, so it's not reasonable to use that passage to try to prove that Jesus was crucified within the physical city of Jerusalem.

 

[SeekTruth]

LOL. What are you saying, that you think God was angry at a physical temple? LOL. He obviously destroyed it as part of the punishment against the rebellious Jewish people. They were not using the temple in the way God intended, so He took it away from them. Also, His plan was for His people to be the temple of God and to dwell in them, so no physical temple would be required any longer.


You can't be serious here. He was not made a physical temple. Goodness gracious.


LOL! Please ask God for wisdom, so that you can understand why He did what He did (James 1:5-7). It certainly wasn't because He was angry with a physical building. LOL!

Jeremiah 7:20
Therefore thus says Lord Yahweh, “Behold, My anger and My wrath will be poured out on this place, on man and on beast and on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground; and it will burn and not be quenched.”

 

[Marty fox]

If it was only about the Jewish people, why did the wrath of God even come upon God's own temple? Why did God destroy his own temple? God was mad even at the physical. Couldnt he just punish the Jews? Why punish the temple?

Because it wasn't Gods temple anymore.

Matthew 23
38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jeremiah 7:20
Therefore thus says Lord Yahweh, “Behold, My anger and My wrath will be poured out on this place, on man and on beast and on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground; and it will burn and not be quenched.”

Do you understand any scripture that you read? Again, please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). He destroyed everything in that place because of His anger with the people who lived there. Destroying the animals, trees and fruit was a punishment against the rebellion of the people. It's utterly ludicrous to think that God would get angry with animals or trees or fruit. Why would He? Think, man.

 

[Marty fox]

We're going back and forth because he refuses to acknowledge the verses (John 19:20, Hebrews 13:12) which say that Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem, thereby causing Jesus to have contradicted those verses. In Luke 13:33-34 Jesus used the term Jerusalem to refer to the people of Jerusalem who killed the prophets and those sent to them, so it's not reasonable to use that passage to try to prove that Jesus was crucified within the physical city of Jerusalem.

Yes, I agree but my point is that Jerusalem can mean different things it about the context.

Yes Jesus was killed outside the literal city but He was killed by the Jerusalem mentioned in Mathew chapter 23 apostate Isreal.

We the church are the bride of Christ the New Jerusalem

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, I agree but my point is that Jerusalem can mean different things it about the context.

Of course.

Yes Jesus was killed outside the literal city but He was killed by the Jerusalem mentioned in Mathew chapter 23 apostate Isreal.

Yes, He was killed by the people and obviously not by the city itself. Of course, they are not the ones who literally killed Him (the Romans did), but they were responsible for it since they called for Him to be put to death.

We the church are the bride of Christ the New Jerusalem

Right.

 

[SeekTruth]

It's utterly ludicrous to think that God would get angry with animals or trees or fruit. Why would He? Think, man.

Jeremiah 7:20 literally says that God poured out his anger on a place AND man AND trees AND fruit. He was angry with all of them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jeremiah 7:20 literally says that God poured out his anger on a place AND man AND trees AND fruit. He was angry with all of them.

LOL. Tell me why God was angry with the place, the trees and the fruit. What did they do to Him that caused Him to be angry with them?

 

[SeekTruth]

LOL. Tell me why God was angry with the place, the trees and the fruit. What did they do to Him that caused Him to be angry with them?

Why dont you just accept what the Bible says?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Why dont you just accept what the Bible says?

LOL! Telling us to simply accept what Scripture says is rich of you when you couldn't explain why God is mad at trees and fruits.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why dont you just accept what the Bible says?

I do. You're the one who doesn't understand what it says. It doesn't say that God gets angry at temples, trees and fruit. LOL.

 

[claninja]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Tell me, if Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem as YOU claim, then WHY does this verse say that Jesus was crucified IN THE STREET OF THE GREAT CITY?

When Jesus was crucified, Golgotha was outside Jerusalem’s city walls. Between AD 41 and 44, Herod Agrippa I began construction of the Third Wall on Jerusalem’s northern side, which would have enclosed the traditional site of Golgotha. The Jewish rebels later completed the wall before the Roman siege in AD 70. Therefore, if Revelation was written end of first century, Golgotha would have been within Jerusalem’s expanded city boundaries, assuming the traditional identification of the site is correct.

Just fyi @Spiritual Israelite

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When Jesus was crucified, Golgotha was outside Jerusalem’s city walls.

Right. So, there it is. He was crucified outside of Jerusalem just as scripture teaches. The context of verses like John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 is in relation to what was the case at the time He was crucified.

Between AD 41 and 44, Herod Agrippa I began construction of the Third Wall on Jerusalem’s northern side, which would have enclosed the traditional site of Golgotha.

This is meaningless in relation to what is written in John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 which pertain to what was the case at the time He was crucified.

The Jewish rebels later completed the wall before the Roman siege in AD 70. Therefore, if Revelation was written end of first century, Golgotha would have been within Jerusalem’s expanded city boundaries, assuming the traditional identification of the site is correct.

Just fyi @Spiritual Israelite

This means nothing as it relates to whether Jesus was crucified within the city of Jerusalem or outside of it. Scripture explicitly teaches that He was crucified outside of the city. The city being expanded at a later time is irrelevant.

 

[TribulationSigns]

When Jesus was crucified, Golgotha was outside Jerusalem’s city walls. Between AD 41 and 44, Herod Agrippa I began construction of the Third Wall on Jerusalem’s northern side, which would have enclosed the traditional site of Golgotha. The Jewish rebels later completed the wall before the Roman siege in AD 70. Therefore, if Revelation was written end of first century, Golgotha would have been within Jerusalem’s expanded city boundaries, assuming the traditional identification of the site is correct.

Just fyi @Spiritual Israelite

Sigh...

Totally ridiculous. Apparently, 2,000 years haven’t been enough. You’re STILL scanning Jerusalem for physical events to prop up your doctrine. Perhaps the next headline will finally supply what your interpretation is missing.

 

[claninja]

Right. So, there it is. He was crucified outside of Jerusalem just as scripture teaches. The context of verses like John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 is in relation to what was the case at the time He was crucified.


This is meaningless in relation to what is written in John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 which pertain to what was the case at the time He was crucified.


This means nothing as it relates to whether Jesus was crucified within the city of Jerusalem or outside of it. Scripture explicitly teaches that He was crucified outside of the city. The city being expanded at a later time is irrelevant.

I agree John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 place the crucifixion outside the gate at the time. I’m not disputing that. But “outside the gate” and “in Jerusalem” aren’t mutually exclusive in Scripture. Jesus himself said a prophet cannot perish outside Jerusalem (Luke 13:33), and he said his departure would be accomplished at Jerusalem (Luke 9:31), though he died outside the walls. So Rev 11:8 calling Jerusalem the place “where also their Lord was crucified” fits biblical usage and contradicts nothing. The Third Wall is a secondary point: it shows the site was physically enclosed by the 40s-60s, which removes even the apparent tension. Your appeal to John 19:20 doesn’t rule out Jerusalem as the city of Rev 11:8.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 place the crucifixion outside the gate at the time. I’m not disputing that. But “outside the gate” and “in Jerusalem” aren’t mutually exclusive in Scripture. Jesus himself said a prophet cannot perish outside Jerusalem (Luke 13:33),

What is your point in bringing up Luke 13:33? You already acknowledged that John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 place the crucifixion outside of the city gate, so Luke 13:33 doesn't change that. So, what are you trying to say by bringing up Luke 13:33? When Jesus referred to Jerusalem in Luke 13:33-34 was He talking about the physical city or the people? It should be obvious because it was the people who had Him killed, and obviously not the physical city of Jerusalem itself.

and he said his departure would be accomplished at Jerusalem (Luke 9:31),

The context of that is that He would be sentenced to death in Jerusalem, not actually crucified there. Revelation 11:8 talks about the place where He was crucified, not the place where He was sentenced to death..

though he died outside the walls. So Rev 11:8 calling Jerusalem the place “where also their Lord was crucified” fits biblical usage and contradicts nothing.

It contradicts the idea that He was crucified within the city of Jerusalem. He was not.

The Third Wall is a secondary point: it shows the site was physically enclosed by the 40s-60s, which removes even the apparent tension. Your appeal to John 19:20 doesn’t rule out Jerusalem as the city of Rev 11:8.

It rules out the possibility that Jesus was crucified in the city of Jerusalem. No, John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 explicitly state otherwise.

Do you just assume that Babylon refers to a literal, earthly city just because it's called a city? It's a symbolic entity, not a literal, earthly one. It's also called a woman/harlot, but obviously isn't a literal woman/harlot. I believe it represents the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem, of which all believers are part (Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22).

 

[claninja]

What is your point in bringing up Luke 13:33? You already acknowledged that John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 place the crucifixion outside of the city gate, so Luke 13:33 doesn't change that. So, what are you trying to say by bringing up Luke 13:33? When Jesus referred to Jerusalem in Luke 13:33-34 was He talking about the physical city or the people? It should be obvious because it was the people who had Him killed, and obviously not the physical city of Jerusalem itself.


The context of that is that He would be sentenced to death in Jerusalem, not actually crucified there. Revelation 11:8 talks about the place where He was crucified, not the place where He was sentenced to death..


It contradicts the idea that He was crucified within the city of Jerusalem. He was not.


It rules out the possibility that Jesus was crucified in the city of Jerusalem. No, John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 explicitly state otherwise.

Do you just assume that Babylon refers to a literal, earthly city just because it's called a city? It's a symbolic entity, not a literal, earthly one. It's also called a woman/harlot, but obviously isn't a literal woman/harlot. I believe it represents the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem, of which all believers are part (Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22).

Would you agree that when Jesus said He would “accomplish His departure at Jerusalem” (Luke 9:31) and that a prophet could not “perish outside Jerusalem” (Luke 13:33), He was using “Jerusalem” to mean the city as a community, even though He was crucified outside the gate?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Would you agree that when Jesus said He would “accomplish His departure at Jerusalem” (Luke 9:31) and that a prophet could not “perish outside Jerusalem” (Luke 13:33), He was using “Jerusalem” to mean the city as a community, even though He was crucified outside the gate?

What do you mean exactly? He was not saying that He would be crucified within the city of Jerusalem, if that's what you're asking, or else He would be a false prophet. Do you agree with John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 that Jesus was crucified outside of the city or not? Make up your mind. If you agree, then what exactly is your point in bringing up verses like Luke 9:31 and Luke 13:33?

 

[grafted branch]

It rules out the possibility that Jesus was crucified in the city of Jerusalem. No, John 19:20 and Hebrews 13:12 explicitly state otherwise.

Hey SI, I remember when you argued that the holy place in Matthew 24:15 was referring to a place that was holy but no longer would be holy when the AOD happens.

Shouldn’t your argument about being crucified in Jerusalem follow the same logic since Golgotha is inside Jerusalem’s third wall when Revelation 11:8 is written?