DID PAUL CALL THE CHURCH A FLOCK OF SHEEP?

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Doug

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[Acts 20:28 KJV] 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There are those who say we, the church, the body of Christ are called sheep. They can use this verse to say that Paul is calling the body of Christ a flock of sheep. This may not be the case.

[Psalms 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
[1Kings 22:17 KJV] 17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
[Jeremiah 50:17 KJV] 17 Israel [is] a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
[Matthew 10:6 KJV] 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Bible makes it clear that only Israel is called sheep.

[Psalms 77:20 KJV] 20 Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
[Psalms 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
[Psalms 80:1 KJV] 1 [[To the chief Musician upon Shoshannimeduth, A Psalm of Asaph.]] Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest [between] the cherubims, shine forth.
[Luke 12:32 KJV] 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Only Israel is referred to as being a flock.

[Galatians 2:7-9 KJV] 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

During Paul's ministry the believing remnant of Israel church was still in existence and in operation.

[Romans 16:7 KJV] 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul had fellow helpers from the remnant church of Israel.

So when we examine Acts 20:28 (the opening verse) we can determine that Paul was speaking of two groups.
When he said "Take heed therefore unto yourselves", he was addressing the body of Christ church. When he said "and to all the flock" he was referring to the remnant of Israel church.
 
D

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So when we examine Acts 20:28 (the opening verse) we can determine that Paul was speaking of two groups.
When he said "Take heed therefore unto yourselves", he was addressing the body of Christ church. When he said "and to all the flock" he was referring to the remnant of Israel church.
The Remnant of Israel is actually defined as ''spiritual Israel''. they make up the 144k in revelation. they are the small flock .
yes it is possible that many of that number are of Israel . how many is not known ,likely will never be known as it is not relevant. they that are not born of Israel are grafted in .
 

Doug

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The Remnant of Israel is actually defined as ''spiritual Israel''. they make up the 144k in revelation.
Spiritual Israel is not found in the Bible (the KJV anyway} but it's a good term to use. I think maybe the Israel of God also.

Did you ever consider that the 144k could be resurrected remnant believers (spiritual Israel) and maybe even the twelve apostles?

The twelve never fulfilled all the commandments Jesus gave them;

Acts 1:8 KJV] 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Peter and the apostles never got past the regions of Jerusalem to fulfill these commands.

Peter rescinded the commandment in Galatians 2:9 to go to the Gentiles so maybe they will fulfill their commandments in the tribulation
 
D

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to be part of ''spiritual Israel'' consider it to be a spiritual transformation marked by the
"Circumcision of the heart"
its a metaphor used in the Bible to describe a spiritual transformation where a person's heart is cleansed and made receptive to God's will and teachings. It signifies a change in one's inner being, characterized by humility, faith, and a desire to obey God.​

 

Doug

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to be part of ''spiritual Israel'' consider it to be a spiritual transformation marked by the​

"Circumcision of the heart"​

its a metaphor used in the Bible to describe a spiritual transformation where a person's heart is cleansed and made receptive to God's will and teachings. It signifies a change in one's inner being, characterized by humility, faith, and a desire to obey God.​

You aren't saying we are spiritual Israel are you?
 
D

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The twelve never fulfilled all the commandments Jesus gave them;

Acts 1:8 KJV] 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Peter and the apostles never got past the regions of Jerusalem to fulfill these commands.

Peter rescinded the commandment in Galatians 2:9 to go to the Gentiles so maybe they will fulfill their commandments in the tribulation
we could wonder if Jesus knew at that point in time what his God had in-store .did he know about the number 144k ? he never told the disciples the number . he did say that the 12 would serve as judges ,judging the 12 tribes ,that they would be in heaven with him . so for 2000 years the preaching go's on.
I'm not about to say the apostles failed ,had they failed no one today would know anything about the kingdom rule for the earth.
 

Doug

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we could wonder if Jesus knew at that point in time what his God had in-store .did he know about the number 144k ? he never told the disciples the number . he did say that the 12 would serve as judges ,judging the 12 tribes ,that they would be in heaven with him . so for 2000 years the preaching go's on.
I'm not about to say the apostles failed ,had they failed no one today would know anything about the kingdom rule for the earth.
Of course Jesus knew all seeing he is God

The apostles did not fail, Israel rejected Christ, so the kingdom offer was removed and was postponed. The earthly kingdom was interrupted by this dispensation of grace.
 

Doug

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to be part of ''spiritual Israel'' consider it to be a spiritual transformation marked by the​

"Circumcision of the heart"​

its a metaphor used in the Bible to describe a spiritual transformation where a person's heart is cleansed and made receptive to God's will and teachings. It signifies a change in one's inner being, characterized by humility, faith, and a desire to obey God.​

[Rom 2:29 KJV] 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

The circumcision of the heart was said of believing Israel
 
D

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You aren't saying we are spiritual Israel are you?
you?,,,,,,,,,,,,, no . they are a select few, the 12 were but the first of the number needed . no one can possibly know how many out of all of the earth have been ask'ed and accepted to fill the number needed . those that did accept and have died are now in heaven . when the time comes for the rest of the number to then join, they are taken alive . that would be the rapture thing people think they are looking for ..
 
D

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Of course Jesus knew all seeing he is God

The apostles did not fail, Israel rejected Christ, so the kingdom offer was removed and was postponed. The earthly kingdom was interrupted by this dispensation of grace.
Matthew 24:36“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
 
D

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[Rom 2:29 KJV] 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

The circumcision of the heart was said of believing Israel
Israel had a different circumcision a practice that's still done . right, its not the hart
 
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Doug

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Matthew 24:36“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
Yea I thought of that after
I see what you are saying
Quite a few scriptures do say what he knew
I dont understand that he said this....lots I dont understand
 

Doug

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Israel had a different circumcision a practice that's still done . right, its not the hart
Right
The circumcision of the flesh was a sign..............[Rom 4:11 KJV] 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
 

PS95

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You aren't saying we are spiritual Israel are you?
No. He is a JW- so he thinks that his religion is the one who houses the 144K and only they are born again and only they go to heaven to rule over everyone else including him.
Good.....glad you dont think we have become spiritual Israel like so many do
Locust doesn't tell you he is a JW-
he thinks that his religion is the one who houses the 144K who they call, spiritual Israel...
and only they are born again and only they go to heaven to rule over everyone else including him.
 

LoveYeshua

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[Acts 20:28 KJV] 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There are those who say we, the church, the body of Christ are called sheep. They can use this verse to say that Paul is calling the body of Christ a flock of sheep. This may not be the case.

[Psalms 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
[1Kings 22:17 KJV] 17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
[Jeremiah 50:17 KJV] 17 Israel [is] a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
[Matthew 10:6 KJV] 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Bible makes it clear that only Israel is called sheep.

[Psalms 77:20 KJV] 20 Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.
[Psalms 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
[Psalms 80:1 KJV] 1 [[To the chief Musician upon Shoshannimeduth, A Psalm of Asaph.]] Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest [between] the cherubims, shine forth.
[Luke 12:32 KJV] 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Only Israel is referred to as being a flock.

[Galatians 2:7-9 KJV] 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

During Paul's ministry the believing remnant of Israel church was still in existence and in operation.

[Romans 16:7 KJV] 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Paul had fellow helpers from the remnant church of Israel.

So when we examine Acts 20:28 (the opening verse) we can determine that Paul was speaking of two groups.
When he said "Take heed therefore unto yourselves", he was addressing the body of Christ church. When he said "and to all the flock" he was referring to the remnant of Israel church.
Jesus made it very clear that all who follow Him are His sheep, not just Israel. He said in John 10:16, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” By these words He showed that He would bring others, meaning the Gentiles, and that there would not be two flocks but one united flock under Him. Peter also spoke the same when he said in 1 Peter 2:25, “For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.” He was speaking to believers in Christ, not only Israel, and called them sheep. After His resurrection Jesus told Peter three times to feed His sheep, showing that His disciples, who became the church, are His flock (John 21:15-17). So when Paul in Acts 20:28 speaks of the flock, he is not dividing between Israel and another body, but using the same words that Christ and Peter used. The flock means all who belong to Christ, both Jew and Gentile together. To say otherwise would go against the words of the Lord, for Jesus Himself declared that there will be one flock and one Shepherd.