Did the Early Church worship on Sabbath?

[St. SteVen]

SS, up until about 25 or 30 years ago virtually no one believed it had anything to do with the 4th commandment, except for maybe rich kids going to forward-thinking seminaries.

Probably because the common understanding was that it referred to Sunday. Not the seventh day Sabbath.

I've asked repeatedly for someone to post some scholarly work dated from the mid 20th century or earlier citing the nullification of the 4th commandment. I haven't had a single taker.

There was some pretty good white papers by the church (GCI ) We Believe | Grace Communion International Resources
I couldn't find the resources that I found earlier. But, this was the church originally started by Herbert W. Armstrong. (Radio Church of God)
That became the Worldwide Church of God, which then splintered into hundreds or thousands of offshoots when
the top leadership put an end to Armstrong-ism. Grace Communion International - Wikipedia
"Grace Communion International, formerly named the Radio Church of God and the Worldwide Church of God..."

Anyway. They had the most scholarly work I had seen on the subject. For what it's worth.

I asked him about a year ago if he'd ever heard of the Ten Commandments being nailed to the cross. He said "What?!"

I think this is the scripture typically used to make that claim.
"... having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness..." to what?

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh,
God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,
which stood against us and condemned us;
he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities,
he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[b]

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[Hobie]

Probably because the common understanding was that it referred to Sunday. Not the seventh day Sabbath.


There was some pretty good white papers by the church (GCI ) We Believe | Grace Communion International Resources
I couldn't find the resources that I found earlier. But, this was the church originally started by Herbert W. Armstrong. (Radio Church of God)
That became the Worldwide Church of God, which then splintered into hundreds or thousands of offshoots when
the top leadership put an end to Armstrong-ism. Grace Communion International - Wikipedia
"Grace Communion International, formerly named the Radio Church of God and the Worldwide Church of God..."

Anyway. They had the most scholarly work I had seen on the subject. For what it's worth.


I think this is the scripture typically used to make that claim.
"... having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness..." to what?

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh,
God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,
which stood against us and condemned us;
he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities,
he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[b]

/

Yes, the 'tradition' of the 'church fathers'.. No scripture, just the 'making the word of God of none effect'...

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, the 'tradition' of the 'church fathers'.. No scripture, just the 'making the word of God of none effect'...

Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?

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[BarneyFife]

Probably because the common understanding was that it referred to Sunday. Not the seventh day Sabbath.

(Sorry for the delay)
Agreed, but that's kinda my point. The argument was always about which day of the week was the object of the 4th commandment. However lenient Sunday-keeping might have been, it was still seen as fulfilling the Sabbath obligation.

I think this is the scripture typically used to make that claim.
"... having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness..." to what?

Colossians 2:13-15 NIV
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh,
God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness,
which stood against us and condemned us;
he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities,
he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[b]

Agree

There was some pretty good white papers by the church (GCI ) We Believe | Grace Communion International Resources
I couldn't find the resources that I found earlier. But, this was the church originally started by Herbert W. Armstrong. (Radio Church of God)
That became the Worldwide Church of God, which then splintered into hundreds or thousands of offshoots when
the top leadership put an end to Armstrong-ism. Grace Communion International - Wikipedia
"Grace Communion International, formerly named the Radio Church of God and the Worldwide Church of God..."

Anyway. They had the most scholarly work I had seen on the subject. For what it's worth.

I'm pretty familiar with the 'Churches Of God (Seventh Day)' family tree.

Believe it or not, I have seen these, I think, and I can tell you the ones I saw were nowhere near as scary as the Harold Camping (I'm sure he wasn't the author) Family Radio studies.

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[St. SteVen]

Agreed, but that's kinda my point. The argument was always about which day of the week was the object of the 4th commandment. However lenient Sunday-keeping might have been, it was still seen as fulfilling the Sabbath obligation.

That's a great point actually. (and don't worry about "delays") Get to it when you get to it.

The Sabbatarian seventh day challenge forced me to study into this whole subject.
I concluded that the church was wrong to enforce the Sabbath commandment. (even on Sunday)
And what do we see today in the church? Sabbath-keeping? Not hardly.

The liquor stores are even open for business on Sunday in my state now.
After all these years of Sunday blue laws. Everything used to be closed on Sunday.
Christians even felt guilty going to restaurants on Sunday when they were allowed to be open.
Weren't we keeping those folks out of church? Nope. They never planned to attend anyway.

I can see that there is an important principle of rest in the Sabbath. That's what I get out of it.
And in reality we have two day weekends to accommodate both Jews and Christians.
So much for "Six days shalt thou labor..." Who does that?

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[BarneyFife]

I concluded that the church was wrong to enforce the Sabbath commandment. (even on Sunday)

It's possibly just semantics at work, but statements like this really perk up my ears. I think people have a wrong view of church discipline. It's meant to preserve the image of God's "setting apart" and/but should be very redemptive in nature. The New Testament is pretty thick with this sentiment, I think. The "turning over to the devil for the destruction of the flesh" may be more metaphorical than most churches would like to believe, because the more literal interpretation involves less work. The genuine model often involves becoming even more interested in the spiritual welfare of the excommunicated than when they were inside the sanctuary. Christ literally (in the metaphorical sense—yeah, that's weird, right?) leaves the ninety-and-nine to search for the ONE. Even those of us who know better fail in this.


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[St. SteVen]

It's possibly just semantics at work, but statements like this really perk up my ears. I think people have a wrong view of church discipline.

Perhaps "enforce" was too strong a word for me to use. I meant through teaching and political action.
But certainly some brow beating for those who weren't "properly" observing Sunday rest. (whatever that means)

St. SteVen said:
I concluded that the church was wrong to enforce the Sabbath commandment. (even on Sunday)

It's meant to preserve the image of God's "setting apart" and/but should be very redemptive in nature. The New Testament is pretty thick with this sentiment, I think. The "turning over to the devil for the destruction of the flesh" may be more metaphorical than most churches would like to believe, because the more literal interpretation involves less work.

I take this to be an extreme situation. Tantamount to rebrobation, where God chooses to cut one loose. With the intention of bringing them to the natural end of themselves. A redemptive goal.

The genuine model often involves becoming even more interested in the spiritual welfare of the excommunicated than when they were inside the sanctuary.

Well said. The usual model is an angry "tar and feathering" and being run out of town.

Christ literally (in the metaphorical sense—yeah, that's weird, right?) leaves the ninety-and-nine to search for the ONE. Even those of us who know better fail in this.

Exactly! A redemptive task.
The good shepherd searches to find them and carries them back to the fold.
Probably waits until he hears their braying as a distress call.

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[Hobie]

Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?

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Does it follow what we are given in the Ten Commandments or transgress it?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?

Does it follow what we are given in the Ten Commandments or transgress it?

That's a BIG assumption in your question.
Why do you assume the Ten were given to us?
With whom was the covenant of the law made?

Deuteronomy 5:1-4 NIV

The Ten Commandments​

Moses summoned all Israel and said
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today.
Learn them and be sure to follow them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain.

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[Big Boy Johnson]

Why do you assume the Ten were given to us?
With whom was the covenant of the law made?

They were NOT given to Christians... the covenant was with the Children of Israel

Sabbath Commandment is only to the children of Israel

Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations

Exodus 16:27-30
And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day.

Leviticus 23:2,3
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Of course the judiazers claim Christians are required to keep the OT law, or part of it... but you can ignore then cause they be mistaken!

 

[BarneyFife]

Leviticus 23:2,3
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Leviticus 23
37‘These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord.

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[St. SteVen]

Does it follow what we are given in the Ten Commandments or transgress it?

Ask @Bob Estey (see post #48, Bob)

"Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?"

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[BarneyFife]

Ask @Bob Estey (see post #48, Bob)

"Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?"

/

If a fella can get his business done in 5 days per week, it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


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[BarneyFife]

Ask @Bob Estey (see post #48, Bob)

"Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?"

/

There's not much chance of getting Sabbath rest on Sunday, though.


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[Bob Estey]

"Do you believe that worship, or rest on Sunday is a sin?"

No. I think we can worship any time we wish and rest whenever we need to.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No. I think we can worship any time we wish and rest whenever we need to.

Oh my... the sabbatarians are going to be very highly upset with you for saying that.

 

[Bob Estey]

Oh my... the sabbatarians are going to be very highly upset with you for saying that. View attachment 40650

Yes, but worship can be a 24/7 thing, and I, for one, need some rest every day. You can explain that to the sabbatarians for me.

 

[BarneyFife]

Oh my... the sabbatarians are going to be very highly upset with you for saying that. View attachment 40650

Not likely.

Bob's a real nice fella.

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[BarneyFife]

No. I think we can worship any time we wish and rest whenever we need to.

It is easier to get adequate rest and worship when it's scheduled, though. There was a time not so long ago that, when the sun went down, people started winding down to go to bed.

Can you imagine what a mess we'd be if God hadn't set up the circadian cycle? Scientists are discovering that there's also a circaseptan (7-day) cycle in living things.

The French tried to improve on it with a 10-day (decimal—they even divided the days, hours, and minutes) routine and Russia experimented with a 5-day week. They didn't catch on.


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[Bob Estey]

It is easier to get adequate rest and worship when it's scheduled, though. There was a time not so long ago that, when the sun went down, people started winding down to go to bed.

Can you imagine what a mess we'd be if God hadn't set up the circadian cycle? Scientists are discovering that there's also a circaseptan (7-day) cycle in living things.

The French tried to improve on it with a 10-day (decimal—they even divided the days, hours, and minutes) routine and Russia experimented with a 5-day week. They didn't catch on.


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I see worship as a 24/7 thing. "Pray constantly" (1 Thessalonians 5:17).