DID THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS SPEAK OF THE MYSTERY?

[complete]

While you are looking up the verses I gave you to find in the prophets, I have one more request please

You said you believe what the Bible has to say about the mystery and the mystery of Christ................please show me what the Bible has to say
Please show me where the Bible says that the mystery of Christ and the mystery are two different mysteries

Hello @Doug,

Ephesians chapter three is the only reference I can give you, where the two are referred to together.

I will try to find answers to your questions, but if I can;t do so, then I will leave this in God's hands.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Doug]

Hello @Doug,

Ephesians chapter three is the only reference I can give you, where the two are referred to together.

I will try to find answers to your questions, but if I can;t do so, then I will leave this in God's hands.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

Ephesians 3 just placing them together doesn't mean there are two mysteries. Fact is there are no verses that state this.

Let me know if you are unable to answer my request to show me those verses in the prophets

Thanks for responding

 

[complete]

@Doug said:-
1) show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25)
2) show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel (Rom 5:9)
3) show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever (1 Thess 4:1). I am asking you to provide where in the old testament the prophets wrote of the verses above. These verse were written before the prison epistles. Show me where the prophets spoke of these verses,'

Hello Doug,

I am unable to answer your questions at this present time, but when I am able I will do so. Until then feel free to look through the Old Testament Scriptures and seek the answers for yourself. If you do, then perhaps you will enlighten me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

DID THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS SPEAK OF THE MYSTERY?​

'And Paul, as his manner was,
went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them
OUT OF THE SCRIPTURES
Opening and alleging,
that Christ must needs have suffered,
and risen again from the dead;
and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you,
is Christ.'
(Act 17:2-3)

Hello @Doug,

The Old Testament Scriptures are full of Christ. They speak of Him in type and shadow, and in direct prophecy. They are wonderful! They are a mystery revealed, to the Believer. They are a garden in words, that you can walk through and rejoice in, and I will not let you take away the joy that they give me. The Apostle Paul reasoned out of the Scriptures, he did not reason about the Scriptures, but he reasoned out of them. In doing so he sought to make known the Living Word. The Messiah. The Lord Jesus Christ. '... that this is Messiah - Jesus whom I announce to you (Acts 17:3). Paul confirmed the teaching of the twelve, and did not go beyond it, during the period of the Acts of the Apostles.

To see The Mystery of Christ, and The Mystery made known to Paul alone, described in the prison epistles, we need to simply believe what is written and rejoice in it, and let God speak, for He delights to answer the request of Ephesians 1:17-23, ' That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,'

The words of God spoken by Moses, by David and others in the Psalms, and the words of the prophets of the Old Testament, magnify Christ, over and over again, so that their chorus resounds as we read. They show forth pictures of New Testament realities in words and pictures, and I will not seek to find proof that what Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ said was so, as you ask, I will believe what they say instead, and not strain my eyes and my mind, but just listen to the chorus of voices that resound to the glory of God, and let my heart join in to God's delight and my own.

Praise God! Praise His Holy Name!

Bye @Doug,
May God's perfect will be done
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

Hello Doug,

I am unable to answer your questions at this present time, but when I am able I will do so. Until then feel free to look through the Old Testament Scriptures and seek the answers for yourself. If you do, then perhaps you will enlighten me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I am not looking for them because I already know the prophets didnt write anything in regard to these verses.
These verses contain truths that were not found in the prophets, they can only be found in Paul's epistles and are therefore mysteries.
These mysteries are found in Paul's epistles BEFORE prison.
The fact that these verses are mysteries in Paul's epistles before prison, refutes your claim that Paul only revealed the mysteries written by the prophets in the epistles prior to prison.

 

[Doug]

Hello Doug,

I am unable to answer your questions at this present time, but when I am able I will do so. Until then feel free to look through the Old Testament Scriptures and seek the answers for yourself. If you do, then perhaps you will enlighten me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Let's look at just one of the verses I gave you

[1Th 4:15-17 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The prophets would surely have written something about meeting the Lord in the air, that's pretty unique.
Note this passage is said to be the "word of the Lord".....to me this means the Lord communicated this passage directly

Do a word search for "air" in blue letter Bible.......there are 39 entries........none of the prophets wrote anything about meeting the Lord in the air

 

[Doug]

DID THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS SPEAK OF THE MYSTERY?​

'And Paul, as his manner was,
went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them
OUT OF THE SCRIPTURES
Opening and alleging,
that Christ must needs have suffered,
and risen again from the dead;
and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you,
is Christ.'
(Act 17:2-3)

Hello @Doug,

The Old Testament Scriptures are full of Christ. They speak of Him in type and shadow, and in direct prophecy. They are wonderful! They are a mystery revealed, to the Believer. They are a garden in words, that you can walk through and rejoice in, and I will not let you take away the joy that they give me. The Apostle Paul reasoned out of the Scriptures, he did not reason about the Scriptures, but he reasoned out of them. In doing so he sought to make known the Living Word. The Messiah. The Lord Jesus Christ. '... that this is Messiah - Jesus whom I announce to you (Acts 17:3). Paul confirmed the teaching of the twelve, and did not go beyond it, during the period of the Acts of the Apostles.

To see The Mystery of Christ, and The Mystery made known to Paul alone, described in the prison epistles, we need to simply believe what is written and rejoice in it, and let God speak, for He delights to answer the request of Ephesians 1:17-23, ' That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,'

The words of God spoken by Moses, by David and others in the Psalms, and the words of the prophets of the Old Testament, magnify Christ, over and over again, so that their chorus resounds as we read. They show forth pictures of New Testament realities in words and pictures, and I will not seek to find proof that what Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ said was so, as you ask, I will believe what they say instead, and not strain my eyes and my mind, but just listen to the chorus of voices that resound to the glory of God, and let my heart join in to God's delight and my own.

Praise God! Praise His Holy Name!

Bye @Doug,
May God's perfect will be done
In Christ Jesus
Chris

They are a garden in words, that you can walk through and rejoice in, and I will not let you take away the joy that they give me.

You are allowing your teachers to rob you of at least a half dozen epistles which if understood properly would bring you more joy

The Apostle Paul reasoned out of the Scriptures, he did not reason about the Scriptures, but he reasoned out of them.

[Act 18:4 KJV] 4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Paul persuaded them

I will not seek to find proof that what Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ said was so, as you ask,

[Act 17:11 KJV] 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

I will not seek to find proof that what Paul or the Lord Jesus Christ said was so, as you ask, I will believe what they say instead,

You are believing what your teachers say not scripture. You found no scripture to say there are two mysteries (the mystery and the mystery of Christ) yet you believe what is not written

not strain my eyes and my mind, but just listen to the chorus of voices that resound to the glory of God, and let my heart join in to God's delight and my own.

The chorus of voices should all be in scripture. For instance, you claim the prophets wrote of the mysteries and that is not scriptural. You couldnt find just a few examples to prove it.

 

[Doug]

The Old Testament Scriptures are full of Christ. They speak of Him in type and shadow, and in direct prophecy. They are wonderful! They are a mystery revealed, to the Believer. They are a garden in words, that you can walk through and rejoice in, and I will not let you take away the joy that they give me.

I said you are being robbed of joy and here is an example

[Mat 24:29-31 KJV] 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You read and accepted from your teachers that our "rapture" was in Matthew 24. If that is the case, then v31 says that's when we will be gathered together BUT it also means that it occurs after the tribulation as seen in v29. If it occurs after the tribulation then it means we WILL GO THRU THE TRIBULATION; what joy to look forward to!

 

[Doug]

Hello Doug,

I am unable to answer your questions at this present time, but when I am able I will do so. Until then feel free to look through the Old Testament Scriptures and seek the answers for yourself. If you do, then perhaps you will enlighten me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I just thought of something.
You say you can't find answers to my verses, ok then show me some verses where Paul spoke the mysteries of Christ and show me the matching words of the prophets from the old testament
thanks

 

[complete]

I am not looking for them because I already know the prophets didnt write anything in regard to these verses.
These verses contain truths that were not found in the prophets, they can only be found in Paul's epistles and are therefore mysteries.
These mysteries are found in Paul's epistles BEFORE prison.
The fact that these verses are mysteries in Paul's epistles before prison, refutes your claim that Paul only revealed the mysteries written by the prophets in the epistles prior to prison.

Hello @Doug,

Is that what I have said? I don't recognise what you are saying as words of mine. Perhaps your use of words is preventing me from recognising it. What I have said is there for all to see in the entries I have made and I stand by that.

I told you previously that I have no intention of arguing over the truths of God's word: State my case, yes, and this I have done. What you believe is between yourself and the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Spirit. I don't want to damage your faith, my own, or that of a spectator, so will leave it in God's hands.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

Let's look at just one of the verses I gave you

[1Th 4:15-17 KJV] 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The prophets would surely have written something about meeting the Lord in the air, that's pretty unique.
Note this passage is said to be the "word of the Lord".....to me this means the Lord communicated this passage directly

Do a word search for "air" in blue letter Bible.......there are 39 entries........none of the prophets wrote anything about meeting the Lord in the air

'For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven
.. with a shout,
.... with the voice of the archangel, and
...... with the trump of God: and
the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
.. shall be caught up together with them
.... in the clouds,
...... to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.'
(1Thess. 4:15-17)

Hello @Doug,

Yes, I agree, the words, 'The word of the Lord', indicate the source of this truth, and I praise God for it, it is obviously of the risen Christ Himself, by the Spirit. Yes, this is not new in essence, for the Lord Jesus Christ when speaking to Martha, prior to the resurrection of Lazarus, said that he that believes on Him shall never die (John 11:25), and this refers to His coming again, for those who are alive and remain, shall never die, but will be changed and raised to meet the Lord in the air, joining the dead in Christ which have been quickened and raised too. Paul is confirming the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise God!

The detail that the risen Lord gives through Paul is wonderful indeed, but there is Old Testament reference to the fact of this event, they witness to it. I am just not equipped to do justice to the word of God, by giving you the necessary reference, and for this I am ashamed, but that the witness is there I have no doubt.

In the light of my ignorance regarding this Old Testament witness, I ask you to release me from further obligation to respond, for it is upsetting to me to have to acknowledge my lack of knowledge of the Old Testament Scriptures. However I praise God that He has brought me to this position, and I will do all in my power, by His grace, to rectify this.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head
Chris

 

[Doug]

Him shall never die (John 11:25), and this refers to His coming again, for those who are alive and remain, shall never die, but will be changed and raised to meet the Lord in the air, joining the dead in Christ which have been quickened and raised too. Paul is confirming the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise God!

Just because a verse has the same words as others does not mean they are talking about the same thing

Lets look at what John 11:25 is really saying.........you have to look at the whole verse and the surrounding verses
[Jhn 11:23-26 KJV] 23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

What Jesus was saying was that "whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." because Jesus is the resurrection and the life. All these verses are talking about the resurrection. Jesus is also speaking of having eternal life by believing on him.......................
[Jhn 3:15 KJV] 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[Jhn 5:24 KJV] 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
[Jhn 6:50 KJV] 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

 

[Doug]

I am just not equipped to do justice to the word of God, by giving you the necessary reference, and for this I am ashamed, but that the witness is there I have no doubt.

You dont have to respond but I have to tell you that believing anything about scripture without having the scripture to base it on is detrimental.............. [Rom 10:17 KJV] 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God........what you believe can only be established by the Word

 

[GodsGrace]

I am not looking for them because I already know the prophets didnt write anything in regard to these verses.
These verses contain truths that were not found in the prophets, they can only be found in Paul's epistles and are therefore mysteries.
These mysteries are found in Paul's epistles BEFORE prison.
The fact that these verses are mysteries in Paul's epistles before prison, refutes your claim that Paul only revealed the mysteries written by the prophets in the epistles prior to prison.

@Truly wrote some terrific posts...some are 10, 11 and 17....
answering all your questions to @complete.

But you don't really want answers,,,,
just debate.

 

[Doug]

@Truly wrote some terrific posts...some are 10, 11 and 17....
answering all your questions to @complete.

But you don't really want answers,,,,
just debate.

Here I answered Truly's post 10

[Rom 16:25-26 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You are reading this passage as saying Paul's gospel and the preaching of Christ was according to the mystery which was made known by revelation and by the scriptures of the prophets

You are saying the prophets made known the mystery. This passage isnt saying that.

The correct way to read this is..................my gospel and the preaching of Christ is according to the revelation of the mystery AND by the prophets.........two different separate things...........the revelation is one....the prophets is another

Paul preached his gospel by the scriptures of the prophets who foretold his death and resurrection and by the revelation of the mystery which made known what his death and resurrection accomplished

[1Co 15:3-4 KJV] 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Doug]

@Truly wrote some terrific posts...some are 10, 11 and 17....
answering all your questions to @complete.

But you don't really want answers,,,,
just debate.

My answer to post 10

[Eph 3:4-5 KJV] 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

There were apostles and prophets when Paul wrote this. They arent the twelve apostles. They arent the old testament prophets.

The Spirit revealed the mystery NOT Christ Jesus who personally revealed it to only Paul

It is NOW made known to the apostles and prophets.......NOW not in the past

 

[Doug]

@Truly wrote some terrific posts...some are 10, 11 and 17....
answering all your questions to @complete.

But you don't really want answers,,,,
just debate.

Answer to post 11

Jesus was not talking about the mystery, but rather his death and resurrection..................[1Pe 1:11 KJV] 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

He was also talking about seeing the Son and the Father.................[Luk 10:22 KJV] 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].

 

[Doug]

@Truly wrote some terrific posts...some are 10, 11 and 17....
answering all your questions to @complete.

But you don't really want answers,,,,
just debate.

Here is answer to post 17

Romans 3:21 is not a mystery

Here was this found in the law and prophets..................[Hab 2:4 KJV] 4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here I answered Truly's post 10

[Rom 16:25-26 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

You are reading this passage as saying Paul's gospel and the preaching of Christ was according to the mystery which was made known by revelation and by the scriptures of the prophets

You are saying the prophets made known the mystery. This passage isnt saying that.

The correct way to read this is..................my gospel and the preaching of Christ is according to the revelation of the mystery AND by the prophets.........two different separate things...........the revelation is one....the prophets is another

Paul preached his gospel by the scriptures of the prophets who foretold his death and resurrection and by the revelation of the mystery which made known what his death and resurrection accomplished

[1Co 15:3-4 KJV] 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

What is the mystery that has been revealed?

 

[Doug]

What is the mystery that has been revealed?

Here is my post

WHAT IS THE MYSTERY?