DID THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS SPEAK OF THE MYSTERY?

[marks]

'And some believed the things which were spoken,
and some believed not.
And when they agreed not among themselves,
they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word,
.. "Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
.... Saying, Go unto this people, and say,
...... Hearing ye shall hear,
........ and shall not understand;
.......... and seeing ye shall see,
............ and not perceive:
For the heart of this people is waxed gross,
.. and their ears are dull of hearing,
.... and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes,
...... and hear with their ears,
........ and understand with their heart,
.......... and should be converted,
............ and I should heal them.
Be it known therefore unto you,
that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles,
and that they will hear it.'
(Act 28:24-28)

Hi @marks.

I agree: yet salvation was not 'sent to the Gentiles' independent of Israel, until Acts 28:28, approx. 40 yrs following the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. Up until then gentiles were grafted into Israel's Olive Tree, in order to bring life to an ailing tree. Brought into the Kingdom in order to make Israel Jealous (Rom. 10:9 & 11:11), and bring them to repentance. This was the priority during that period in which the door remained open for the nation itself to come to repentance and receive their Messiah. For in Acts 3:19-21, Peter said to the men of Israel at the feast of Pentecost, 'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.' These forty years was a time of probation for the people of Israel.

So it was only with the revelation of The Mystery to Paul, made known in the prison epistles, that it was revealed that Christ would be in (or among) them, their hope of glory, independent now of Israel, (which approx. a year later, in AD70, would be destroyed and scattered among the nations) equal and united in Christ Jesus their risen and glorified, Saviour, Lord and Head:-

'Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation of God
which is given to me for you,
to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery
which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in (or among) you, the hope of glory:'
(Col 1:25-27)

* This was the glorious good news for the Gentiles, who had been far off from God, and without hope in the world, that they, by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, as their Saviour and Lord, could be brought into Christ, and thereby be part of the household of God: Sons of God, with an inheritance and a hope which is far above all heavens in Christ Jesus. God's own inheritance in the heavenlies, as Israel will be in the New Earth. Different spheres and type of blessing: For ours are All Spiritual Blessings, whereas redeemed Israel will be blessed in basket and store.

Praise God!

Forgive me Marks, I got carried away there.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

PS: If you disagree with me Marks, I will understand: for it is before God that we stand, isn't it? We need fear no judgment of man. It is God and His word by which we measure the truth of what is written or said by our fellow men.

I have to wonder about Acts 15, and how the Gentiles were not required to be circumsized, or to keep the Law. Only a few things that would have enflamed the sensitivities of those who heard Moses taught every week for their entire lives. But this doesn't seem as though they were counted within the New Covenant with Israel.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Tell me what do you say the one true gospel is

Of course it is the Good News that God came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth and was crucified on the cross and was raised by The Father, for the remission of sins past of that those that believe. You well know that is what The ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ is about. And it is the SAME for both Israelite and Gentile.

Col 3:11
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
KJV

Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
KJV

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

So why do you listen to men's doctrines with going against the above written Word of God? There is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it is the same Gospel for both Jew and Greek (i.e., Israelite and Gentile); it is not two Gospels.

The false idea of separating The ONE Gospel into two separate gospels is from those who began the false PRE-TRIBULATIONAL RAPTURE THEORY in 1830's Great Britain. That is why man's doctrine of Dispensationalism involves belief on the Pre-trib Rapture theory, and thus Hyper-Dispensationalism also.

John Darby and Edward Irving, in 1800's Great Britain, were first to preach a Pre-trib secret Rapture theory in a Christian Church. Darby created his own brand of Dispensationalism, which stated Christ's Church would be raptured to Heaven prior to the "great tribulation", and they would reign with Jesus from Heaven while the Jews inherit a refurbishing of the old kingdom of Israel on earth. In other words, Darby taught the Church is separate from God's reestablishing of Israel in His future Kingdom, which of course is NOT written. What is written... is that Christ's Church represents His elect kings and priests that will reign with Him over all nations FROM JERUSALEM after His future return. That is why Rev.20 mentions the "camp of the saints" being on earth at that future time.

 

[Davy]

I really dont get what you find significant here...........Paul was sent to the children of Israel.......so????

Why... are you being coy?

You well know that man's theory Hyper-Dispensationalism preaches that only Paul's Epistles are written to Christ's Church and the rest of The Bible is written to Jews. That's where that doctrine of men came up with their own idea of twin gospels.

Thus what I said should be easy... to figure out, with just a little brain power:

If there were TWO Gospels, one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles, then WHICH GOSPEL did Paul preach to the Jews? since Paul showed that it was Peter who was sent to preach the Gospel to the Jews (circumcision)?

Thus men's doctrine of Hyper-Dispensationalism with a 2 Gospel theory does an old 'switch-a-roo' with which Gospel was preached depending on whether it was to Jews or Gentiles? Yep, that's what that doctrine of men is suggesting. And what stupidity that is. Those behind that Hyper-dispensationalist doctrine ought to know better, which is why that doctrine having been started by Satan's host should be obvious.

 

[Doug]

Of course it is the Good News that God came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth and was crucified on the cross and was raised by The Father, for the remission of sins past of that those that believe. You well know that is what The ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ is about. And it is the SAME for both Israelite and Gentile.

Col 3:11
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
KJV

Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
KJV

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

So why do you listen to men's doctrines with going against the above written Word of God? There is only ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it is the same Gospel for both Jew and Greek (i.e., Israelite and Gentile); it is not two Gospels.

The false idea of separating The ONE Gospel into two separate gospels is from those who began the false PRE-TRIBULATIONAL RAPTURE THEORY in 1830's Great Britain. That is why man's doctrine of Dispensationalism involves belief on the Pre-trib Rapture theory, and thus Hyper-Dispensationalism also.

John Darby and Edward Irving, in 1800's Great Britain, were first to preach a Pre-trib secret Rapture theory in a Christian Church. Darby created his own brand of Dispensationalism, which stated Christ's Church would be raptured to Heaven prior to the "great tribulation", and they would reign with Jesus from Heaven while the Jews inherit a refurbishing of the old kingdom of Israel on earth. In other words, Darby taught the Church is separate from God's reestablishing of Israel in His future Kingdom, which of course is NOT written. What is written... is that Christ's Church represents His elect kings and priests that will reign with Him over all nations FROM JERUSALEM after His future return. That is why Rev.20 mentions the "camp of the saints" being on earth at that future time.

As long as you believe we are saved by believing the gospel that Christ died for our sins and was raised for our justification we can disagree elsewhere

 

[Davy]

This is the verse about the cross..........................[Act 10:39 KJV] 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Nothing about salvation

Ah..... you have done a TERRIBLE THING. You have DENIED The Word of God!

Here is what Acts 10 shows with Peter preaching The GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST to those Gentiles he was called to...

All... the below Scripture in 'green' is The Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Acts 10:34-48
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him.

36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (He is Lord of all:)

37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; Whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.

42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
KJV

 

[Doug]

If there were TWO Gospels, one for the Jews and another for the Gentiles, then WHICH GOSPEL did Paul preach to the Jews?

With all respect you are not understanding. The Jews were being offered the earthly kingdom. They had to believe only that he was Christ, the Son of God. They had to believe the earthly promised kingdom was at hand.
The offer of the kingdom was postponed.
Only Paul preached salvation by the cross. Paul preached salvation by the death of Jesus for all sin and resurrection for our justification unto eternal life.

 

[Doug]

43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.

Peter was only preaching faith in his name not the cross as Paul does.

Why is this threating?

I am only saying that Israel received a means of salvation different from Paul

Does this threaten the teachings of your church and their teachings? Does this threaten the relationships of fellow church goers? Why are you reluctant to believe the word?

 

[Davy]

As long as you believe we are saved by believing the gospel that Christ died for our sins and was raised for our justification we can disagree elsewhere

Not good enough.

Those in Christ are to speak God's Word, not their own word. That can mean using examples to explain what is written, but it still means sticking with what is actually 'written' in God's Word. And that includes NOT applying allegories to God's written Word where none are being given in the Scripture.

And for today's time, since the coming "great tribulation" is so close to this present generation, the Churches should... be warning brethren about the SIGNS of the END that Lord Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse, to especially including the coming Antichrist/false Messiah who is coming to play God on earth, working great signs and wonders. Many deceived preachers are going to lead their whole congregations off the cliff when wrongly claiming that false one is our Lord Jesus when it will not be. We are not... hearing that warning in many Churches today, when that should be the main one.

 

[Davy]

With all respect you are not understanding. The Jews were being offered the earthly kingdom. They had to believe only that he was Christ, the Son of God. They had to believe the earthly promised kingdom was at hand.
The offer of the kingdom was postponed.
Only Paul preached salvation by the cross. Paul preached salvation by the death of Jesus for all sin and resurrection for our justification unto eternal life.

What you are saying suggests that you DO NOT REALLY KNOW what the false doctrine of Hyper-Dispensationalism that you keep actually teaches.

They teach the idea that the offer of the kingdom to the Jews by Jesus involved only 'a' gospel meant only for Jews! and not for Gentiles.

Then they teach the gospel Paul preached is for the Church only, INDEPENDENT of the kingdom Jesus offered the Jews. Paul never taught any such separation idea. Thus their false TWO gospels idea is not Biblical.


What God's Word ACTUALLY TEACHES, is the ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ, INCLUDING HIS KINGDOM, is for BOTH, the believing Jews and the believing Gentiles, TOGETHER AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST.

And the Biblical history about the ten lost tribes of Israel, along with scattered Jews among them, were the FOUNDERS of the early Christian Church in Asia Minor and Europe. So HOW can anyone apply some kind of GENTILES only Church to the ORIGINAL western Christian Churches just because Paul was chosen to also take the Gospel to the Gentiles? Apostle James did address Christians of all 12 tribes scattered abroad, ya know (James 1:1).

 

[Davy]

Peter was only preaching faith in his name not the cross as Paul does.

That statement above of course is FALSE. You have been spiritually blinded... by man's false doctrine that you hold to.

Peter was preaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ here...

Acts 10:39-43
39 And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; Whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;

41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.

42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
KJV

How could you make a stupid claim that is not about The Gospel of Jesus Christ!?@#$!?

 

[Doug]

Of course it is the Good News that God came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth and was crucified on the cross and was raised by The Father, for the remission of sins past of that those that believe.

I took another look at what you said was the gospel and I have a question
You said Jesus was crucified and risen for the remmission of SINS PAST
Are you saying only past sins were forgiven?

 

[Doug]

Subject Heading:- 'Did The Old Testament Prophets Speak of The Mystery?

'Of which salvation the prophets have enquired
and searched diligently,
who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Searching what, or what manner of time
the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
when it testified beforehand
the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed,
that not unto themselves, but unto us
they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you
by them that have preached the gospel unto you
with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;
which things the angels desire to look into.'
(1Pet. 1:10)

Hello @Doug,

The answer to that question is 'No', for the Old Testament Prophets themselves did not know that what they were revealing from God in their writings was 'The Mystery of Christ', so they did not themselves 'speak' of it. Yet Christ was revealed through them, sometimes in direct prophetic utterances, or by type and shadow and this was indeed 'The Mystery of Christ'. It was to the Old Testament Prophets that the New Testament Apostles referred constantly, including Paul for the word of God they made known revealed Christ.

You need to differentiate between the two mysteries spoken of in Ephesians chapter three.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I asked you twice to respond to this. I can only assume you won't or can't provide scripture to support your claim. Without scriptural support, your claim that the prophets wrote of the mysteries lacks credibility. With all respect, I think you can't show me scripture, and your claim is spurious. I hope the reason you havent responded isnt due to illness or personal reasons.

Here for the last time I ask this:
Saying the mystery of Christ is type and shadow does not prove they are speaking of the mystery of Christ......please give me some verses........for example show me in the old testament prophets where they speak about the body of Christ being a new creature.(2 Cor 5:17)......show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25).........show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel(Rom 5:9}.........show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever(1 Thes 4:17)

You say the mystery pertained to secret revelations given Paul in prison as opposed to the mystery of Christ given to the prophets to write down, even if they didnt understand what they were writing. You say the mysteries of Christ written by the prophets were revealed to Paul.
So my point is, what I asked you to show me were the scriptures in the prophets that spoke of the above mysteries......all of these mysteries were not from the prison epistles

Show me one or more scriptures as you are able to if you wish.

 

[Doug]

43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.
KJV

How could you make a stupid claim that is not about The Gospel of Jesus Christ!?@#$!?

You have just said what I have been saying.
This is the gospel. Peter preached for eternal life by believing in Jesus, by believing in his name that he is the Christ the Son of God. Thats all they had to believe.

Paul preached Jesus was the Christ the Son of God, but he preached the gospel that Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification. Not the same gospel.

 

[complete]

I posted this to you, did you miss it?

Saying the mystery of Christ is type and shadow does not prove they are speaking of the mystery of Christ......please give me some verses........for example show me in the old testament prophets where they speak about the body of Christ being a new creature.(2 Cor 5:17)......show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25).........show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel(Rom 5:9}.........show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever(1 Thes 4:17)

You say the mystery pertained to secret revelations given Paul in prison as opposed to the mystery of Christ given to the prophets to write down, even if they didnt understand what they were writing
So my point is, what I asked you to show me were the scriptures in the prophets that spoke of the above mysteries......all of these mysteries were not from the prison epistles

Hello @Doug,

The whole of Scripture reveals the Lord Jesus Christ in one way or another. Like John says in regard to his epistle in John 20:30-31:=
'And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name.' This is true of the Scriptures too, for what we have recorded is written that we may see God's plan and purpose which centres on His Son, so if we have failed to see Christ in the pages of the Old Testament, then we have failed to understand and know His purpose. Right there in Genesis 3:15 with the words of God to Satan, we see Christ as the promised seed of the woman. In the pitching of the ark we see Christ who covers those who are trusting Him for full salvation from the judgment to come. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself says, in Luk.24:44 'These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me'

The Mystery of Christ does not contain reference to the Body of Christ: only in 'The Mystery' which is revealed to Paul, and made known in the prison epistles, do we see the truths concerning the church which is the Body of Christ: this mystery is not the subject of either the Old Testament Scriptures, or any other writings within this book which we hold dear. Only in the prison epistles. Not in Paul's earlier works, for the mystery was still 'hid in God' awaiting God's revelation at the time of their writing.

You can point to such passages as that in Romans 12:4-5, or 1 Cor.12, to prove that what I have said is not true: but those references are not referring to the Church which is the Body of Christ. Though they can be discussed if you wish.

The Mystery of Christ, as has already been said, was revealed to the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament and as the Berean's of old proved, could be found in the Old Testament Scriptures. It is manifest in the earlier works of Paul, and that of Peter and John.

That is all I can say at the moment Doug,
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

ord's Prisoner, was given a revelation by God concerning the believers who were left.

I asked you twice to respond to this. I can only assume you won't or can't provide scripture to support your claim. Without scriptural support, your claim that the prophets wrote of the mysteries lacks credibility. With all respect, I think you can't show me scripture, and your claim is spurious. I hope the reason you havent responded isnt due to illness or personal reasons.

Here for the last time I ask this:
Saying the mystery of Christ is type and shadow does not prove they are speaking of the mystery of Christ......please give me some verses........for example show me in the old testament prophets where they speak about the body of Christ being a new creature.(2 Cor 5:17)......show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25).........show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel(Rom 5:9}.........show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever(1 Thes 4:17)

You say the mystery pertained to secret revelations given Paul in prison as opposed to the mystery of Christ given to the prophets to write down, even if they didnt understand what they were writing. You say the mysteries of Christ written by the prophets were revealed to Paul.
So my point is, what I asked you to show me were the scriptures in the prophets that spoke of the above mysteries......all of these mysteries were not from the prison epistles

Show me one or more scriptures as you are able to if you wish.

'And He said unto them,
These are the words which I spake unto you,
while I was yet with you,
that all things must be fulfilled,
which were written
.. in the law of Moses, and
.... in the prophets, and
...... in the psalms,
........ concerning Me. (i.e.,'The Mystery of Christ')
Then opened He their understanding,
that they might understand the Scriptures,'
(Luk 24:44-45)

Hello @Doug,

Forgive me for being so unresponsive, I have not been in a position to respond until now.

The types and shadows are part of the 'Mystery of Christ': as are the Old Testament references quoted by Paul and the other Apostles. For the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of the Old Testament Scriptures: but cloaked in mystery until revealed to the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament. The Prophets of the Old Testament spoke the words of God. The New Testament is full of references concerning Christ quoted by such as Paul, John and Peter, quoted from Isaiah and the other prophets. These all comprise part of The Mystery of Christ.

You ask me to give you a reference? I might as well hand you a copy of the New Testament and say 'here it is'. For It is Christ revealed! No longer mystery.

Thank you, Doug,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

You can point to such passages as that in Romans 12:4-5, or 1 Cor.12, to prove that what I have said is not true: but those references are not referring to the Church which is the Body of Christ. Though they can be discussed if you wish.

Let me try again
I didnt post these verses to prove you wrong. show me in the old testament prophets where they speak about the body of Christ being a new creature.(2 Cor 5:17)......show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25).........show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel(Rom 5:9}.........show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever(1 Thes 4:17)
Romans 12 or 1 Corinthians 12 aren't even in the verses I posted.

I am asking you to provide where in the old testament the prophets wrote of the verses above. These verse were written before the prison epistles. Show me where the prophets spoke of these verses,

 

[Davy]

I took another look at what you said was the gospel and I have a question
You said Jesus was crucified and risen for the remmission of SINS PAST
Are you saying only past sins were forgiven?

That's what Apostle Paul said...

Rom 3:24-26
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
KJV


You mean your Church has never mentioned to you about Apostle Paul declaring the above that just the sins up to that point of our Faith and baptism on Jesus Christ are covered?

Let's see if that KJV might be a bad English translation on that Romans 3:25 verse, check out some other Bible versions...

Rom 3:25-26
25 Whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
NKJV

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God set forth (to be) a propitiation, through faith, in His blood, to show His righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;
ASV

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God has put forward as the sign of His mercy, through faith, by His blood, to make clear His righteousness when, in His pity, God let the sins of earlier times go without punishment;
BBE

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God has set forth a mercy-seat, through faith in His blood, for [the] shewing forth of His righteousness, in respect of the passing by the sins that had taken place before, through the forbearance of God;
Darby

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in His blood, to the shewing of His justice, for the remission of former sins,
Douay-Rheims

Rom 3:25-26
25 Whom God put forward as a propitiation by His blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in His divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
ESV

Rom 3:25-26
25 God showed that Christ is the throne of mercy where God's approval is given through faith in Christ's blood. In His patience God waited to deal with sins committed in the past.
(from GOD'S WORD Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations Bible Society. All rights reserved.)

Rom 3:25-26
25 Whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in His blood, for a demonstration of His righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,
(from The Lexham English Bible, Fourth Edition <NL><NL>Copyright © 2010, 2012 Logos Bible Software.)

Nope, all those English Bible translations above say the same thing, forgiveness of sins committed in the PAST.

That is why man's Once Saved, Always Saved doctrines are false.

Apostle John in 1 John 1 showed us what those in Christ MUST do regarding FUTURE SINS committed. We must REPENT to Christ, asking Him forgiveness, which is why Lord Jesus included our asking forgiveness of sins in the Prayer He gave in Luke 11 to pray.

I pretty much say that prayer DAILY... for the forgiveness of my sins, asking Jesus forgiveness. I usually have at least one I'm aware of when I do repent daily, but I don't claim to know about all of them. Yet the Luke 11 prayer asks Him forgiveness of all of those too. And I'm a Protestant Christian, not Catholic. So I don't do repetitious prayer. I seek to follow what Lord Jesus commanded us.

 

[ElieG12]

[Luke 1:70 KJV] 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

[Romans 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The prophets spoke since the world began, but could not have spoken of the mystery because it was kept secret since the world began. The mystery could not have been spoken of, and at the same time be kept secret.

Christ Jesus only revealed the secret mystery to Paul.

"Mystery" is a translation of the Greek word μυστήριον [mysterion]. The word "mystery" in English doesn't accurately define what the Greek word implies as used in the Bible, as that word has been surrounded by a halo of mysticism typical of Gnosticism.

For example, although it speaks of things that hadn't been revealed in ancient times, they were later revealed. In reality, these are things that have to do with God and His purpose.

There were a few things unknown to Israelites that Christians later understood. Which one are you referring to when you mention a biblical "mystery"?

 

[Doug]

'And He said unto them,
These are the words which I spake unto you,
while I was yet with you,
that all things must be fulfilled,
which were written
.. in the law of Moses, and
.... in the prophets, and
...... in the psalms,
........ concerning Me. (i.e.,'The Mystery of Christ')
Then opened He their understanding,
that they might understand the Scriptures,'
(Luk 24:44-45)

Hello @Doug,

Forgive me for being so unresponsive, I have not been in a position to respond until now.

The types and shadows are part of the 'Mystery of Christ': as are the Old Testament references quoted by Paul and the other Apostles. For the Lord Jesus Christ is the subject of the Old Testament Scriptures: but cloaked in mystery until revealed to the Apostles and Prophets of the New Testament. The Prophets of the Old Testament spoke the words of God. The New Testament is full of references concerning Christ quoted by such as Paul, John and Peter, quoted from Isaiah and the other prophets. These all comprise part of The Mystery of Christ.

You ask me to give you a reference? I might as well hand you a copy of the New Testament and say 'here it is'. For It is Christ revealed! No longer mystery.

Thank you, Doug,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sorry I missed this post
No problem not responding
I asked you to support your contention that the prophets wrote about the mysteries Paul wrote of before his prison epistles.
I asked for specific passages not the whole Bible.
How can you say the prophets wrote of these mysteries if you cant present any verses wherein, they wrote of these mysteries.
I am afraid the reason you cant show me just one scripture is because the prophets never wrote them.
I will not pursue this further seeing it is futile.
Thanks for responding

 

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Let me try again
I didnt post these verses to prove you wrong. show me in the old testament prophets where they speak about the body of Christ being a new creature.(2 Cor 5:17)......show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25).........show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel(Rom 5:9}.........show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever(1 Thes 4:17)
Romans 12 or 1 Corinthians 12 aren't even in the verses I posted.

I am asking you to provide where in the old testament the prophets wrote of the verses above. These verse were written before the prison epistles. Show me where the prophets spoke of these verses,

Subject Heading:- 'Did the Old Testament Prophets Speak of The Mystery?

Hello @Doug,

The church which is the Body of Christ is not the subject of the Old Testament, nor of the New Testament other than the epistles of Paul, written from his confinement as The Lord's Prisoner, which are (Eph. Phil. Col. 2Tim. Titus & Phil.) Prior to it's revelation this knowledge was hid in God (Eph. 3:8-9). This is 'The Mystery'.

'Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new.'
(2Co 5:17)

2 Corinthians 5:17 does not concern the church which is the Body of Christ, because written before it was revealed to Paul, and through Paul to the saints and faithful to whom it was sent. In Cor. 5:17 the 'new creature' is an individual who has been saved by God's grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ His person and His work.

@Doug said:-
1) show me where the prophets say how God forgives sin.(Rom 3:25)
2) show me where they said Jesus would shed his blood for all not just Israel (Rom 5:9)
3) show me where they say believers will be caught up in the air to be with Christ forever (1 Thess 4:1). I am asking you to provide where in the old testament the prophets wrote of the verses above. These verse were written before the prison epistles. Show me where the prophets spoke of these verses,

* These three questions I will seek to answer, but not now, as it is now very late here in the UK.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris