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Featured Difficult Important Biblical Texts

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Berserk, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Paul is saying simply Jesus is the Saviour of all.
    So whether we put our faith in Him and so are saved, or He is there but we ignore Him, He is the saviour of all, as it that is His role and His status to all. Like a policeman is a policeman whether people need their help or not, or have broken the law and will be arrested or saved from violent people.

    So the status of Jesus as Saviour is fulfilled by believers, because He actually saves us, while for unbelievers, the door and opportunity is there though unused.
     
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  2. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Salvation comes through hearing the word, and then believing on the word, repenting and walking in obedience to Christ.
    Without Paul preaching, and to be able to preach, Paul suffered persecution etc. Paul is pointing out this suffering is part of Christs work in His life and makes complete the power of the cross by delivering salvation to the lost.

    Some believe they are saved alone by Jesus and the cross. But this is the open door and path to eternity, but without faith and walking it it is worthless. But for these believers to put a condition on the the cross and its power they claim is unbelief. But the truth is they refuse to accept a sinful life style denies the reality of the Holy Spirit in their lives and testifies to a hard heart and a lack of love working within them.
     
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  3. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    God answers the Lords prayer everyday. The prayer is a prayer of intention and condition of ones heart.
    The prayer makes a petition
    Give us today our daily bread - Provide us with food
    Forgive us - Show us mercy as we show mercy on others
    Lead us not into temptation - Make our path ones we can cope with
    Deliver us from the evil one - Keep us protected from the enemy

    The prayer declares our loyalty and intention in our hearts as a declaration of faith to God.
    It is founded on desiring His will to come to earth, for Him to rule.
    Jesus is telling us what the Father is looking for in us, and how he desires to meet our needs out of His grace and love.
    You can simply extend this as the foundation of our walk, doing good and avoiding evil.
     
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  4. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the greek
    "From then the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is taken by violence and the violent claim it" Matt 11:12

    Jesus appears to be saying forceful people want to declare their version of the Kingdom of heaven and kill those who disagree with them. So John the baptist is in prison because by this they believe they can control the Kingdom, but this is clearly not true.
    John had finished his ministry and Jesus was now beginning to preach and teach the way of the Kingdom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    marks likes this.
  5. Berserk

    Berserk Active Member

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    Thanks for playing. Here is another text that poses interpretative problems:
    "No one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterwards to speak evil of me. Whoever is not against us is for us (Mark (9:39-40)."

    How do you explain the apparent tension between this text and the following 2 verses?
    "Whoever is not with me is against me (Luke 11:23)."
    "On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord,...did we not do many deeds of power in your name?" THen I will declare to them, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers (Matthew 7:22-23)!"
     
  6. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
    39 "Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,
    40 for whoever is not against us is for us."
    Mark 9

    Jesus is saying to His disciples not to oppose people who are doing things in His name because this is not evil or wrong. It is actually testimony to the power of the name of Jesus, so is a witness.

    As far as salvation goes, it does not mean these folk are saved or following Jesus and will stand judged on the last day, yet doing good is not an evil thing. Unfortunately I have met believers who believe only believers can do good things, as if goodness is inherent only with faith.

    The point of the gospel is no matter how much "good" one does, sin destroys that which we desire to keep. For instance I can paint and repair a house but if I drive a bulldozer through it, the house is destroyed no matter how much I have done to try and keep it going, it is now destroyed.

    Some in their thinking believe the issue is just how God looks at us, and as long as this is favourable, then everything is fine. But God is interested in us, who we are and how we behave. It is founded upon a Holy walk like Jesus, full of love and truth.

    14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
    Heb 12

    We are lights in a dark place, love from eternity brought into the mortal world.
     
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  7. Berserk

    Berserk Active Member

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    You are ducking the 2 apparent implication of these texts:
    (1) If you don't actively oppose Jesus, then He considers you to be on His side. In other words, exorcisms in Jesus' name demonstrate that one is on Jesus' team, regardless of what else one believes.
    (2) Jesus will ultimate reject people who perform miracles in His name, even though their support of who He is makes it impossible for them to speak negatively about Him.
     
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    (c) God called His Israel to specifically be a nation of priests, which ultimately is applied to Christ's Church (1 Peter 2:9).
    (d) Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations of Rev.20 is still to come, and begins after His return. In that sense, many in the nations of today's unsaved will be saved during that future period. Jesus is The Saviour of all peoples, not just of His Church that believed during this present world time. Many of the nations will become part of His Church in that future time, and will take part in the future new heavens and a new earth.
    (e) Continued Bible study especially in the Old Testament prophets answers many of these wonderings. Much of the OT prophets is still yet to be fulfilled. Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were teaching from The Old Testament Books. Peter said for the Church to not neglect study of the OT prophets (2 Peter 3:2).


    (c) All one really need do is to continue reading from Col.1:25 to the end of that chapter. Apostle Paul explains what Jesus chose him to do, i.e., to fulfill the Word of God according to the mystery which had been hid from ages and generations, but was then made manifest to the saints. Paul was specifically chosen to fulfill that duty in taking The Gospel to the Gentiles. That is the mystery he was speaking of. Our Lord Jesus didn't fulfill that; He chose Paul to fulfill it (Acts 9).

    The KJV renders the passage as, "...and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake, which is the church:" (Col.1:24). Paul went through much physical suffering in order to fulfill his chosen duty for Christ and His Church; not as a replacement for Christ's suffering on the cross, for no man could compare to that.

    (d) We shouldn't stress on the idea of petitioning with that. We should concentrate on the actual meaning, which is the hope of His coming Kingdom, which is about the world to come. A Bible study on the meaning would begin in Psalms 2; Isaiah 2; Jeremiah 23; Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:27; Revelation 11:15.

    (a) It's about the idea of how the crowds thronged around John and Jesus when The Gospel began to be preached. The verse is comparing the crowds to an uncontrollable pressing.
     
  9. FollowHim

    FollowHim Well-Known Member

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    Scripture is often a summary of the point being made.
    The majority of the meaning is seen from an emotional and positional context.
    Jesus was addressing the ban the disciples put on these people, saying this is not necessary. How far Jesus provides an explanation is less relevant, than His intention not to stop these people.

    Jesus follows a similar theme in scripture. People can believe and do what they like, His people are just called to separate themselves from those not following Him. Within Israel the law was kill the apostates and blasphemers. Another time Jesus did this was when towns rejected the disciples and their message. The disciples wanted fire to be called down upon these places, but Jesus said no.

    Look at church history, there have been many groups that have arisen, separated and then failed.
    I know many believers who hold heretical views. I would much rather encourage them to follow Jesus and discover for themselves His teaching and guidance rather than get distracted into side arguments on theology. God bless you
     
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  10. breathoflife

    breathoflife New Member

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    Hi, I will try and deal with your first point. Christ is the Savior of the world but not all the world has or will accept Him in that roll.

    1) Christ died that no man might die but not all men accept that salvation but it does not negate He died for all.

    2) as Saul walked the road to Emmaus the Shekinah Glory appeared to him taking away his physical sight removed that he might see the spiritual by faith changed him to Paul. We are the Body of Christ in this world and He knew and foretold we should each count the cost because the world sought His death in the flesh but His resurrected spiritual Body is here for all men to see. One day the Head and Body will be but between now and then we should expect persecutions that He said to Saul why are you persecuting me.

    3) great questions really cause the cobwebs to be swept away and really accent on the Bread we live on His Word, thanks. Understanding the meaning transforms it all. The Lord’s kingdom is in heaven during this present age but being God He reigns in His people even now .

    4), I believe that the kingdom has been sought by those who like the Evil Shepherd do not enter through the Gate/ Door and seek to take the kingdom by forcing their will above God’s will. It is termed in the Way Of Cain and it is important what that way is. I believe there was what would eventually called The Passover in the Garden of Eden. Why? We see the Good Shepherd who comes seeking His lost sheep. The Evil Shepherd is also there but instead of being shown as a Bright and Shining being speaking of the fallen angel Lucifer. I believe limited support can be found for this when we look at Ezekiel 28 where the Serpent is shown to be the guardian cherub. Gold and jewels covered him, looking like he came as a false High Priest. Also the Lord is the Shekinah and is it a coincidence that in the end times both have their return described as looking like lightening. How would a mortal man describe something he had no way of comparing to anything except the brilliant light. Plus the anti-Messiah is coming to a temple he will claim as his. If fire does not come down from heaven no temple sacrifice, etc. this Beast counterfeits the Lamb of God until he shows he is a beast and not a lamb. Back to could it be an unnamed Passover that covered the sin of the guilty through the sacrifice of the Innocent. When their nakedness, sin, was covered by the Blood of the Innocent they passed over from death to life. Gets better as Adam and Eve undergo an exodus out of the Garden where Israel was to undergo the exodus from a garden like area called Goshen.

    Adam and Eve left the garden but look at what they now knew. There was an appointed time for the sacrifice mostly likely they went up to the same Mount Abraham took Issac Mount Zion the Temple Mount. They also knew where that Offering was to offered the east side of Eden where know stood that which would be known as the Mercy Seat God’s Throne and there the Shekinah Glory sitting on that throne barring the way to the Tree of Life. That way was reopened but only those who believe in Him and His work eventually figure out the way to life is through an empty tomb. The final thing Adam and Eve learned was there was one and only one acceptable sacrifice for God the Passover Lamb Jesus the Messiah. We can assume that like the actually named Feast of Passover revealed to Israel there was to be the Haggadah or
    The Telling Adam and Eve would use to pass these things onto their sons. Abel accepted the Lamb and Cain did not and this rejection of the Lamb of God has been the way of both the literal children of Cain and those who are spiritually rejecting The Lamb.

    Last thing I hope. When God cursed Cain he was to dwell in the Land of Nod which means Wandering. If Cain had humbled himself he would have no other way to live except as a shepherd and the Sin-Offering waited outside the door. Cain completed his rebellion by settling down and building a city, expecting lots of company I guess. But here in the rebellion of Cain has come all the systems of this world. Cain’s children were the founders of entertainers, ranchers and armaments and the list is so extensive it fills our world and our lives. The bad part most don’t know where the world has it’s roots and it has wreaked havoc for those of called to be aliens and pilgrims in this world. I feel the darkness is beginning to break and the first rays of the returning Light of the World our Lord are beginning to be seen. Even so Lord Jesus come.

    Sorry but I am known to ramble just a little. I will try to be less so but I love this stuff. Darn I started again. Bye for now.
     
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  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Yet, I would add that before any prayer, are we not to acknowledge His majesty, His Holiness?
     
  12. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    When we read a text that says something like "Amen, Amen...etc." We don't have an actual translation, but another translation will have "Truly, truly...etc." So it is translated, and yet we're looking at the same text. This is what I think is really going on. We're all apart of the same reality, but not everyone is seeing or getting the translation.
     
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