Disappearing Doctrines Written by Mike Gendron.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Disappearing Doctrines
Written by Mike Gendron.

The Disappearing Doctrine of the Evangelical Church

This newsletter is often used to correct the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church but in this issue we will address the disappearing doctrine of the Evangelical Church. Many professing Christians now think it doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you label it Christianity. Their only test for becoming a Christian is a simple acceptance of Jesus as a historical figure. In our post-modern church, doctrine is out and tolerance is in. We are told that for the sake of unity, doctrine should not be tested or contested. We are not supposed to draw any definitive lines or declare any absolutes. Doctrinal and moral issues which were once painted black and white, are now seen as gray. The state of the church is now in a state of confusion.

Paul forewarned us that this would happen when he wrote: "The time will come when they [the people in the church] will not endure [tolerate] sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths" (2 Tim. 4:3-4). When "Christians" turn to popular teachers who tickle their ears with messages on self-esteem and self-improvement, they are also turning away from God's word. Without a steady diet of Scripture, they will not hear sound doctrine and therefore be unable to discern truth from error. Ultimately, they will not know if they are following Jesus Christ or his adversary.

Without discernment, the 21st century church is headed for serious trouble because the enemies of the Gospel are more shrewd and cunning than we are. What the Body of Christ needs now are soldiers of the Lord who are committed to battle for truth! Let us look at some of the cause for the lack of discernment in the evangelical church.

Decline of Biblical Preaching

What has happened to pastors who preach the whole counsel of God? Churches that once taught the Bible verse-by-verse are on the endangered species list. We receive letters from our subscribers all over the world who cannot find them. We have also witnessed this first hand as we listen to sermons on church web sites. It appears pastors today are more concerned with popularity, church growth, methodology, psychology and meeting felt needs than biblical doctrine. Pastors are teaching less and less from the Bible which ultimately calls people to trust in the words of men, instead of the word of God.

Three Kinds of Preachers

In one category are teachers who faithfully preach the whole counsel of God. They exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict (2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:9). These men are devoted to seeking the approval of God over the approval of men (Gal. 1:10).

In the second category are teachers who cater to desires of men (2 Tim. 4:3). These teachers are dangerous, not because of what they say, but for what they don't' say. They purposefully avoid the offense of the Gospel for fear it will make people uncomfortable. Whenever preachers avoid the Word of God, believers don't get discernment and "seekers" don't get saved. We see an example of this type of preacher in Joel Osteen, the pastor of one of America's largest churches located in Houston. In a June 20th interview on Larry King Live, he was asked if atheists go to heaven. He replied, "I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell". When asked where Jews or Muslims go without trusting Jesus, he replied, "I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven; I don't know." Rather than unashamedly respond with the power and exclusivity of the Gospel, Osteen chose to remain silent so that no one would be offended.

The third category is made up of false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies and malign the way of the truth (2 Pet. 2:1-2). These teachers deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting and the undiscerning (Rom. 16:18). Without discernment, listeners will not be able to distinguish between who has been sent by Christ and who is a mouthpiece for Satan.

Wooing the World into The Church

Proponents of the church growth movement have developed attractive gimmicks and techniques to invite the world into our churches. Their thinking is this: "If we can get the world to like us, maybe they will like our Savior." Their approach to post-modern ecclisiology has been labeled "seeker-friendly" or, more profoundly, "sinner-friendly." Jesus is being disguised to make Him and His Gospel "less offensive" to seekers. Their goal is to make sinners feel comfortable by giving them what they want instead of what they need. Their strategy is to throw soft balls at non-Christians rather than challenge and confront their unbelief with convicting truths from Scripture. As the goats are being entertained with this nonsense, the sheep of the Shepherd are being deprived of His Word.

We must ask where does God's word tell us to woo the world? Did not Jesus say, "The world ... hates Me because I testify that its deeds are evil" (John 7:7)? James wrote: "Whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God" (James 4:4). Church history confirms this and we should learn from the past. The churches and de¬nominations which made friends with the world began a downward slide into apostasy. By trying to woo the world, they had to compromise their preaching, tolerate sin and immorality and abandon nearly every doctrinal position they once held.

Those who remain faithful to the Gospel will be an offense to the world because the Gospel is inherently offensive. Christ Himself is offensive to all who reject the truth. He is "a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense" (1 Peter 2:8). The message of the cross is also a stumbling block and foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Cor. L 18; Gal. 5:11). Tragically there are multitudes who profess Christ but cannot articulate the Gospel's basic elements. What is left for the church if it can't communicate the only message that brings forth life?

The decline of doctrine (and ultimately the ability to discern) occurs in our churches when anyone of three things take place. First, when drama and entertainment become more important than preaching the word. Secondly, when the pastor's goal becomes "making people happy instead of holy." You know this is taking place when he shifts his sermons from "this is what God says" to "this is what I think people want to hear." Thirdly, when the pastor spends more time addressing "felt needs" over "spiritual needs." Eventually these churches become filled with gullible people who believe their lovable pastor is speaking for God. Might they consider a quote from A. W. Tozer who said: "Gullibility is not synonymous with spirituality. Faith keeps its heart open to whatever is of God, and rejects everything that is not of God."

Tolerance Has Replaced Absolute Truth

Some Christian leaders are calling for the church to adapt to the new generation by eliminating all absolutes. They are saying that we can no longer proclaim absolute truth. Truth is now said to be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Needless to say, this is producing a Christian faith void of doctrine but full of confusion. Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths is now firmly established within Christianity. We are called to be tolerent of everything except absolute truth. This tolerance is being used as a platform for unity with the Roman Catholic Church. Some evangelicals would rather have a counterfeit unity based on tolerance than authentic spiritual unity based on truth. Anyone who stands in their way is labeled divisive or troublesome.

Warnings Are Being Ignored

There are numerous warnings in Scripture that tell us the church will be bombarded with perverse teachings, empty philosophy; vain deceit, speculations, lying spirits, worldly fables, false knowledge, doctrines of demons, destructive heresies, myths, falsehoods, traditions of men and worldly wisdom. Jesus and Paul warned of false prophets who would come in as wolves in sheep's clothing not sparing the flock (Mat. 7:15; Acts 20:29). We must do as Jesus and the apostles did and warn Christians of these destructive influences which are weakening the church and bringing shame to the precious name of our Savior!

Spiritual Immaturity

When sound doctrine is replaced with shallow teaching made up of humorous stories and opinions, you will find spiritual ignorance and biblical illiteracy in the pew. New babes in Christ will have difficulty growing in the grace and knowledge of their Savior when pastors do not preach the whole counsel of God. When the Word of God is not being faithfully taught, people will not hear truth. And if they don't hear truth, they will be unable to discern God's way from man's way, truth from error and right from wrong. We must all become more and more discerning because no man is infallible and no preacher is beyond the possibility of doctrinal error. We must always be ready to reject what is false and hold fast to what is true. As disciples of Jesus we must be known for what we're, for as well as what we're against.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Disappearing Doctrines
Written by Mike Gendron.

The Disappearing Doctrine of the Evangelical Church

This newsletter is often used to correct the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church but in this issue we will address the disappearing doctrine of the Evangelical Church. Many professing Christians now think it doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you label it Christianity. Their only test for becoming a Christian is a simple acceptance of Jesus as a historical figure. In our post-modern church, doctrine is out and tolerance is in. We are told that for the sake of unity, doctrine should not be tested or contested. We are not supposed to draw any definitive lines or declare any absolutes. Doctrinal and moral issues which were once painted black and white, are now seen as gray. The state of the church is now in a state of confusion.

Paul forewarned us that this would happen when he wrote: "The time will come when they [the people in the church] will not endure [tolerate] sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths" (2 Tim. 4:3-4). When "Christians" turn to popular teachers who tickle their ears with messages on self-esteem and self-improvement, they are also turning away from God's word. Without a steady diet of Scripture, they will not hear sound doctrine and therefore be unable to discern truth from error. Ultimately, they will not know if they are following Jesus Christ or his adversary.

Without discernment, the 21st century church is headed for serious trouble because the enemies of the Gospel are more shrewd and cunning than we are. What the Body of Christ needs now are soldiers of the Lord who are committed to battle for truth! Let us look at some of the cause for the lack of discernment in the evangelical church.

Decline of Biblical Preaching

What has happened to pastors who preach the whole counsel of God? Churches that once taught the Bible verse-by-verse are on the endangered species list. We receive letters from our subscribers all over the world who cannot find them. We have also witnessed this first hand as we listen to sermons on church web sites. It appears pastors today are more concerned with popularity, church growth, methodology, psychology and meeting felt needs than biblical doctrine. Pastors are teaching less and less from the Bible which ultimately calls people to trust in the words of men, instead of the word of God.

Three Kinds of Preachers

In one category are teachers who faithfully preach the whole counsel of God. They exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict (2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:9). These men are devoted to seeking the approval of God over the approval of men (Gal. 1:10).

In the second category are teachers who cater to desires of men (2 Tim. 4:3). These teachers are dangerous, not because of what they say, but for what they don't' say. They purposefully avoid the offense of the Gospel for fear it will make people uncomfortable. Whenever preachers avoid the Word of God, believers don't get discernment and "seekers" don't get saved. We see an example of this type of preacher in Joel Osteen, the pastor of one of America's largest churches located in Houston. In a June 20th interview on Larry King Live, he was asked if atheists go to heaven. He replied, "I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell". When asked where Jews or Muslims go without trusting Jesus, he replied, "I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven; I don't know." Rather than unashamedly respond with the power and exclusivity of the Gospel, Osteen chose to remain silent so that no one would be offended.

The third category is made up of false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies and malign the way of the truth (2 Pet. 2:1-2). These teachers deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting and the undiscerning (Rom. 16:18). Without discernment, listeners will not be able to distinguish between who has been sent by Christ and who is a mouthpiece for Satan.

Wooing the World into The Church

Proponents of the church growth movement have developed attractive gimmicks and techniques to invite the world into our churches. Their thinking is this: "If we can get the world to like us, maybe they will like our Savior." Their approach to post-modern ecclisiology has been labeled "seeker-friendly" or, more profoundly, "sinner-friendly." Jesus is being disguised to make Him and His Gospel "less offensive" to seekers. Their goal is to make sinners feel comfortable by giving them what they want instead of what they need. Their strategy is to throw soft balls at non-Christians rather than challenge and confront their unbelief with convicting truths from Scripture. As the goats are being entertained with this nonsense, the sheep of the Shepherd are being deprived of His Word.

We must ask where does God's word tell us to woo the world? Did not Jesus say, "The world ... hates Me because I testify that its deeds are evil" (John 7:7)? James wrote: "Whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God" (James 4:4). Church history confirms this and we should learn from the past. The churches and de¬nominations which made friends with the world began a downward slide into apostasy. By trying to woo the world, they had to compromise their preaching, tolerate sin and immorality and abandon nearly every doctrinal position they once held.

Those who remain faithful to the Gospel will be an offense to the world because the Gospel is inherently offensive. Christ Himself is offensive to all who reject the truth. He is "a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense" (1 Peter 2:8). The message of the cross is also a stumbling block and foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Cor. L 18; Gal. 5:11). Tragically there are multitudes who profess Christ but cannot articulate the Gospel's basic elements. What is left for the church if it can't communicate the only message that brings forth life?

The decline of doctrine (and ultimately the ability to discern) occurs in our churches when anyone of three things take place. First, when drama and entertainment become more important than preaching the word. Secondly, when the pastor's goal becomes "making people happy instead of holy." You know this is taking place when he shifts his sermons from "this is what God says" to "this is what I think people want to hear." Thirdly, when the pastor spends more time addressing "felt needs" over "spiritual needs." Eventually these churches become filled with gullible people who believe their lovable pastor is speaking for God. Might they consider a quote from A. W. Tozer who said: "Gullibility is not synonymous with spirituality. Faith keeps its heart open to whatever is of God, and rejects everything that is not of God."

Tolerance Has Replaced Absolute Truth

Some Christian leaders are calling for the church to adapt to the new generation by eliminating all absolutes. They are saying that we can no longer proclaim absolute truth. Truth is now said to be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Needless to say, this is producing a Christian faith void of doctrine but full of confusion. Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths is now firmly established within Christianity. We are called to be tolerent of everything except absolute truth. This tolerance is being used as a platform for unity with the Roman Catholic Church. Some evangelicals would rather have a counterfeit unity based on tolerance than authentic spiritual unity based on truth. Anyone who stands in their way is labeled divisive or troublesome.

Warnings Are Being Ignored

There are numerous warnings in Scripture that tell us the church will be bombarded with perverse teachings, empty philosophy; vain deceit, speculations, lying spirits, worldly fables, false knowledge, doctrines of demons, destructive heresies, myths, falsehoods, traditions of men and worldly wisdom. Jesus and Paul warned of false prophets who would come in as wolves in sheep's clothing not sparing the flock (Mat. 7:15; Acts 20:29). We must do as Jesus and the apostles did and warn Christians of these destructive influences which are weakening the church and bringing shame to the precious name of our Savior!

Spiritual Immaturity

When sound doctrine is replaced with shallow teaching made up of humorous stories and opinions, you will find spiritual ignorance and biblical illiteracy in the pew. New babes in Christ will have difficulty growing in the grace and knowledge of their Savior when pastors do not preach the whole counsel of God. When the Word of God is not being faithfully taught, people will not hear truth. And if they don't hear truth, they will be unable to discern God's way from man's way, truth from error and right from wrong. We must all become more and more discerning because no man is infallible and no preacher is beyond the possibility of doctrinal error. We must always be ready to reject what is false and hold fast to what is true. As disciples of Jesus we must be known for what we're, for as well as what we're against.
Honestly @Johann anyone that has to gain a following by speaking against other churches instead of presenting his doctrine by itself is clearly driven by the hate mechanism. You can see this easily in social interactions, like when someone gossips about someone to their friends, making that someone look bad to build themselves up in the eyes of their audience. I don't follow people like that. Hmmm?
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Honestly @Johann anyone that has to gain a following by speaking against other churches instead of presenting his doctrine by itself is clearly driven by the hate mechanism. You can see this easily in social interactions, like when someone gossips about someone to their friends, making that someone look bad to build themselves up in the eyes of their audience. I don't follow people like that. Hmmm?
It is happening all over this Forum-on Church attacking another Church-yes?

A Biblical Defense of the Faith
by Mike Gendron

Have you ever considered how biblical your approach is to handling objections when you witness for Christ? It doesn't help that a great majority of apologetical resources encourage unbiblical methods. Whether the individual you engage is a skeptic or a false convert, they need to be confronted with the depravity of their sin, the authority of God's Word and the exclusivity of Christ. This is because their positions are the same and their objections are similar. They are both without Christ and they both appeal to their own authority to justify how they live.

Do such individuals need to be given better evidences to refute their objections? Do they simply lack a few key proofs that Jesus is Lord and Savior? Or does such an approach perpetuate a false notion that they are the judge and God is on trial? Nowhere in Scripture do we find Jesus or His disciples giving more evidence for what skeptics reject. The biblical model begins with the fact that man is "without excuse" because "what can be known about God is plain to him, because God has shown it to them" in His creation (Rom. 1:19-20). Despite man having this inherent truth about God, he suppresses it (Rom.1:18). For this reason, it is not wise to spend time arguing over evolution, the existence of God, or for that matter, anything opposed to the Bible. If God's Word says it, then it is true. If one rejects His Word, the problem is not a lack of evidence, but an unwillingness to submit to the authority of God and His Word. For this reason we must defend the faith, not with extra-biblical evidences, but with the Bible alone. This is the best approach because God's infallible Word never returns void (Isa. 55:11).

Some Christians compromise and seek a neutral source for truth when someone doesn't respect the Bible. Yet, there is no such thing as neutrality, for each person has their own presuppositions.

They are drawn either from submitting to God's authority or an authority of their own choosing. When someone rejects the supreme authority of God's Word, how can appealing to a lesser authority be of any help (Rom. 10:17; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Heb. 4:12)? If an unbeliever wins an argument using an extra-biblical source, they will still need to surrender to Christ's authority for salvation.

Proverbs 26:4-5 provides a wonderful model for answering objections. It states, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." Verse 4 reveals the importance of responding with truth while verse 5 explains the importance of exposing untruth.

In other words, don't answer a skeptic by using his faulty worldview, but rather stay centered on biblical truth. Show the futility of clinging to anything opposed to God's Word. Also, do not allow the unbeliever to steal components from your biblical worldview such as logic, reason, certainty, or morality, none of which can exist apart from God.


As an example, imagine a discussion with a Catholic who believes they are a Christian but has unknowingly rejected the Gospel. First, we should point them to Gospel truth as laid out in God's Word. The conversation might begin by asking how one hopes to get to heaven. After they have articulated an unbiblical understanding of salvation, ask, "If God's Word said something different would you want to know?" Then show them that they fall short of God's perfect standard. Show them, that in their sin they must give an account to a holy and just God who cannot overlook sin. Show them their only hope is the Gospel and help them understand that grace, by its very nature, cannot be earned and that it is by faith and repentance that the sinner is made right with God. Reinforce that to add anything else to this free gift, is an assault on the gift itself (Rom. 11:6). If the Catholic is humble and interested in the Gospel, then continue to engage them and exhort them to forsake everything else and trust Christ alone. To discern if there is biblical understanding, ask the Catholic about certain Catholic teachings which oppose the gospel. Look for genuine understanding of biblical truth and repentance of previously held gospel opposed beliefs.

If however the conversation doesn't even get this far and the gospel message is rejected, then we need to switch gears. We must transition from leading out with the truth (Prov. 26:4), to showing the folly of the untruth that the unbeliever is currently trusting in (Prov. 26:5). This would involve respectfully but honestly exposing why the Catholic teaching on salvation is problematic. Ask them about their authority and how they know what they are saying is true. Ask multiple "how" and "why" questions to dig deeper and reveal the root of what they believe and why. At some point it will be exposed that they are either trusting in man blindly or their own authority. Demonstrate how this is a dangerous path to be on and what Scripture has to say about trusting man (Ps. 118:9, 146:3). Discuss why man always drifts to religion when he really needs a saving relationship with His Lord and Savior. Jesus' discussion with the very religious Nicodemus in John 3 and Paul's testimony of the value of his prior religion in Philippians 3 both would be great texts to make this point. Let them see by way of analogies from Scripture where they stand and let God's powerful Word bookmark your conversation in their minds.

When the Gospel is proclaimed biblically and backed up by a strong biblical defense to any objections, then the evangelist further removes them self from the conversation. This allows for the individual to rightly see their rebellion against a holy God before whom they must one day give an account (Heb. 4:13). Because this defense of the faith rightfully stands on God's Word which is compared to a powerful sword, (Heb. 4:12, Eph. 6:17) we must be wise in how we use it. With the truth on our side, it is easy to make a fool of the unbeliever and put them in their place. However, doing so demonstrates wrong motives, a proud spirit, and a lack of compassion for those who are perishing. The apostle Peter reminds believers when they give a defense of the faith to do so with "gentleness and respect" (1 Pet. 3:15). What good is exposing an unbeliever's false worldview if they are so turned off by your manner that they refuse to listen to you (1 Cor. 13:1)? We must continue to demonstrate our love for the unbeliever and show them that the door is open for them to repent and enter. May we saturate both our gospel witness and defense of the faith in prayer, that our hearts would be right, that we would stay faithful to God's Word, and He would be glorified.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David in NJ

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is happening all over this Forum-on Church attacking another Church-yes?

A Biblical Defense of the Faith
by Mike Gendron

Have you ever considered how biblical your approach is to handling objections when you witness for Christ? It doesn't help that a great majority of apologetical resources encourage unbiblical methods. Whether the individual you engage is a skeptic or a false convert, they need to be confronted with the depravity of their sin, the authority of God's Word and the exclusivity of Christ. This is because their positions are the same and their objections are similar. They are both without Christ and they both appeal to their own authority to justify how they live.

Do such individuals need to be given better evidences to refute their objections? Do they simply lack a few key proofs that Jesus is Lord and Savior? Or does such an approach perpetuate a false notion that they are the judge and God is on trial? Nowhere in Scripture do we find Jesus or His disciples giving more evidence for what skeptics reject. The biblical model begins with the fact that man is "without excuse" because "what can be known about God is plain to him, because God has shown it to them" in His creation (Rom. 1:19-20). Despite man having this inherent truth about God, he suppresses it (Rom.1:18). For this reason, it is not wise to spend time arguing over evolution, the existence of God, or for that matter, anything opposed to the Bible. If God's Word says it, then it is true. If one rejects His Word, the problem is not a lack of evidence, but an unwillingness to submit to the authority of God and His Word. For this reason we must defend the faith, not with extra-biblical evidences, but with the Bible alone. This is the best approach because God's infallible Word never returns void (Isa. 55:11).

Some Christians compromise and seek a neutral source for truth when someone doesn't respect the Bible. Yet, there is no such thing as neutrality, for each person has their own presuppositions.

They are drawn either from submitting to God's authority or an authority of their own choosing. When someone rejects the supreme authority of God's Word, how can appealing to a lesser authority be of any help (Rom. 10:17; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Heb. 4:12)? If an unbeliever wins an argument using an extra-biblical source, they will still need to surrender to Christ's authority for salvation.

Proverbs 26:4-5 provides a wonderful model for answering objections. It states, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes." Verse 4 reveals the importance of responding with truth while verse 5 explains the importance of exposing untruth.

In other words, don't answer a skeptic by using his faulty worldview, but rather stay centered on biblical truth. Show the futility of clinging to anything opposed to God's Word. Also, do not allow the unbeliever to steal components from your biblical worldview such as logic, reason, certainty, or morality, none of which can exist apart from God.


As an example, imagine a discussion with a Catholic who believes they are a Christian but has unknowingly rejected the Gospel. First, we should point them to Gospel truth as laid out in God's Word. The conversation might begin by asking how one hopes to get to heaven. After they have articulated an unbiblical understanding of salvation, ask, "If God's Word said something different would you want to know?" Then show them that they fall short of God's perfect standard. Show them, that in their sin they must give an account to a holy and just God who cannot overlook sin. Show them their only hope is the Gospel and help them understand that grace, by its very nature, cannot be earned and that it is by faith and repentance that the sinner is made right with God. Reinforce that to add anything else to this free gift, is an assault on the gift itself (Rom. 11:6). If the Catholic is humble and interested in the Gospel, then continue to engage them and exhort them to forsake everything else and trust Christ alone. To discern if there is biblical understanding, ask the Catholic about certain Catholic teachings which oppose the gospel. Look for genuine understanding of biblical truth and repentance of previously held gospel opposed beliefs.

If however the conversation doesn't even get this far and the gospel message is rejected, then we need to switch gears. We must transition from leading out with the truth (Prov. 26:4), to showing the folly of the untruth that the unbeliever is currently trusting in (Prov. 26:5). This would involve respectfully but honestly exposing why the Catholic teaching on salvation is problematic. Ask them about their authority and how they know what they are saying is true. Ask multiple "how" and "why" questions to dig deeper and reveal the root of what they believe and why. At some point it will be exposed that they are either trusting in man blindly or their own authority. Demonstrate how this is a dangerous path to be on and what Scripture has to say about trusting man (Ps. 118:9, 146:3). Discuss why man always drifts to religion when he really needs a saving relationship with His Lord and Savior. Jesus' discussion with the very religious Nicodemus in John 3 and Paul's testimony of the value of his prior religion in Philippians 3 both would be great texts to make this point. Let them see by way of analogies from Scripture where they stand and let God's powerful Word bookmark your conversation in their minds.

When the Gospel is proclaimed biblically and backed up by a strong biblical defense to any objections, then the evangelist further removes them self from the conversation. This allows for the individual to rightly see their rebellion against a holy God before whom they must one day give an account (Heb. 4:13). Because this defense of the faith rightfully stands on God's Word which is compared to a powerful sword, (Heb. 4:12, Eph. 6:17) we must be wise in how we use it. With the truth on our side, it is easy to make a fool of the unbeliever and put them in their place. However, doing so demonstrates wrong motives, a proud spirit, and a lack of compassion for those who are perishing. The apostle Peter reminds believers when they give a defense of the faith to do so with "gentleness and respect" (1 Pet. 3:15). What good is exposing an unbeliever's false worldview if they are so turned off by your manner that they refuse to listen to you (1 Cor. 13:1)? We must continue to demonstrate our love for the unbeliever and show them that the door is open for them to repent and enter. May we saturate both our gospel witness and defense of the faith in prayer, that our hearts would be right, that we would stay faithful to God's Word, and He would be glorified.
I read a little bit and don't follow that man very well as he seems as if he thinks if you don't follow his ideas on doctrine then your damned over some little point. Doesn't sound like God to me would judge that way.

But yes there are some people here that try to gain a following by attacking others and making them look bad. Sad really.

Honestly I only get into debates to provide my beliefs so that readers have the option if they choose to accept it over what I consider is false doctrine being presented.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
I read a little bit and don't follow that man very well as he seems as if he thinks if you don't follow his ideas on doctrine then your damned over some little point. Doesn't sound like God to me would judge that way.

But yes there are some people here that try to gain a following by attacking others and making them look bad. Sad really.

Honestly I only get into debates to provide my beliefs so that readers have the option if they choose to accept it over what I consider is false doctrine being presented.
You are evasive, not addressing the points-not READING-speaking truth is not welcomed.
Adieu.
Again-this is not for you-you are attacking the messenger and the message.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are evasive, not addressing the points-not READING-speaking truth is not welcomed.
Adieu.
Again-this is not for you-you are attacking the messenger and the message.
Well it's not my truth. I read enough to see who I was dealing with.

And yes I can question preachers. It's actually my obligation to see if I should, as a child of God, follow them or not. If their speaking the truth or false doctrine.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
I read a little bit and don't follow that man very well as he seems as if he thinks if you don't follow his ideas on doctrine then your damned over some little point. Doesn't sound like God to me would judge that way.
You have read "a little bit" and now you think you know him and his "hidden agendas and motifs?"
God is not our Judge-it is Christ Jesus who is our Judge.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To be honest I answer points of doctrine using my understanding of the scriptures, not pages of points or hour long videos. I think we are on different paths @Johann. I'll leave you to it.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
To be honest I answer points of doctrine using my understanding of the scriptures, not pages of points or hour long videos. I think we are on different paths @Johann. I'll leave you to it.
Indicative of the fact people are lazy to read and meditate-let alone study the Scriptures-not with our own understanding-but with the eyes of our heart/understanding- being enlightened BY the Holy Spirit.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Indicative of the fact people are lazy to read and meditate-let alone study the Scriptures-not with our own understanding-but with the eyes of our heart/understanding- being enlightened BY the Holy Spirit.
I'm not lazy at reading the scriptures. I'm pretty well versed in the bible. I just don't want to invest a lot of time in the content you posted. I'm just going to exit the thread @Johann. OK, cheers!
 
Last edited:

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
2,428
3,476
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Disappearing Doctrines
Written by Mike Gendron.

The Disappearing Doctrine of the Evangelical Church

This newsletter is often used to correct the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church but in this issue we will address the disappearing doctrine of the Evangelical Church. Many professing Christians now think it doesn't really matter what you believe, as long as you label it Christianity. Their only test for becoming a Christian is a simple acceptance of Jesus as a historical figure. In our post-modern church, doctrine is out and tolerance is in. We are told that for the sake of unity, doctrine should not be tested or contested. We are not supposed to draw any definitive lines or declare any absolutes. Doctrinal and moral issues which were once painted black and white, are now seen as gray. The state of the church is now in a state of confusion.

Paul forewarned us that this would happen when he wrote: "The time will come when they [the people in the church] will not endure [tolerate] sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths" (2 Tim. 4:3-4). When "Christians" turn to popular teachers who tickle their ears with messages on self-esteem and self-improvement, they are also turning away from God's word. Without a steady diet of Scripture, they will not hear sound doctrine and therefore be unable to discern truth from error. Ultimately, they will not know if they are following Jesus Christ or his adversary.

Without discernment, the 21st century church is headed for serious trouble because the enemies of the Gospel are more shrewd and cunning than we are. What the Body of Christ needs now are soldiers of the Lord who are committed to battle for truth! Let us look at some of the cause for the lack of discernment in the evangelical church.

Decline of Biblical Preaching

What has happened to pastors who preach the whole counsel of God? Churches that once taught the Bible verse-by-verse are on the endangered species list. We receive letters from our subscribers all over the world who cannot find them. We have also witnessed this first hand as we listen to sermons on church web sites. It appears pastors today are more concerned with popularity, church growth, methodology, psychology and meeting felt needs than biblical doctrine. Pastors are teaching less and less from the Bible which ultimately calls people to trust in the words of men, instead of the word of God.

Three Kinds of Preachers

In one category are teachers who faithfully preach the whole counsel of God. They exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict (2 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:9). These men are devoted to seeking the approval of God over the approval of men (Gal. 1:10).

In the second category are teachers who cater to desires of men (2 Tim. 4:3). These teachers are dangerous, not because of what they say, but for what they don't' say. They purposefully avoid the offense of the Gospel for fear it will make people uncomfortable. Whenever preachers avoid the Word of God, believers don't get discernment and "seekers" don't get saved. We see an example of this type of preacher in Joel Osteen, the pastor of one of America's largest churches located in Houston. In a June 20th interview on Larry King Live, he was asked if atheists go to heaven. He replied, "I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell". When asked where Jews or Muslims go without trusting Jesus, he replied, "I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven; I don't know." Rather than unashamedly respond with the power and exclusivity of the Gospel, Osteen chose to remain silent so that no one would be offended.

The third category is made up of false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies and malign the way of the truth (2 Pet. 2:1-2). These teachers deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting and the undiscerning (Rom. 16:18). Without discernment, listeners will not be able to distinguish between who has been sent by Christ and who is a mouthpiece for Satan.

Wooing the World into The Church

Proponents of the church growth movement have developed attractive gimmicks and techniques to invite the world into our churches. Their thinking is this: "If we can get the world to like us, maybe they will like our Savior." Their approach to post-modern ecclisiology has been labeled "seeker-friendly" or, more profoundly, "sinner-friendly." Jesus is being disguised to make Him and His Gospel "less offensive" to seekers. Their goal is to make sinners feel comfortable by giving them what they want instead of what they need. Their strategy is to throw soft balls at non-Christians rather than challenge and confront their unbelief with convicting truths from Scripture. As the goats are being entertained with this nonsense, the sheep of the Shepherd are being deprived of His Word.

We must ask where does God's word tell us to woo the world? Did not Jesus say, "The world ... hates Me because I testify that its deeds are evil" (John 7:7)? James wrote: "Whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God" (James 4:4). Church history confirms this and we should learn from the past. The churches and de¬nominations which made friends with the world began a downward slide into apostasy. By trying to woo the world, they had to compromise their preaching, tolerate sin and immorality and abandon nearly every doctrinal position they once held.

Those who remain faithful to the Gospel will be an offense to the world because the Gospel is inherently offensive. Christ Himself is offensive to all who reject the truth. He is "a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense" (1 Peter 2:8). The message of the cross is also a stumbling block and foolishness to those who are perishing (1 Cor. L 18; Gal. 5:11). Tragically there are multitudes who profess Christ but cannot articulate the Gospel's basic elements. What is left for the church if it can't communicate the only message that brings forth life?

The decline of doctrine (and ultimately the ability to discern) occurs in our churches when anyone of three things take place. First, when drama and entertainment become more important than preaching the word. Secondly, when the pastor's goal becomes "making people happy instead of holy." You know this is taking place when he shifts his sermons from "this is what God says" to "this is what I think people want to hear." Thirdly, when the pastor spends more time addressing "felt needs" over "spiritual needs." Eventually these churches become filled with gullible people who believe their lovable pastor is speaking for God. Might they consider a quote from A. W. Tozer who said: "Gullibility is not synonymous with spirituality. Faith keeps its heart open to whatever is of God, and rejects everything that is not of God."

Tolerance Has Replaced Absolute Truth

Some Christian leaders are calling for the church to adapt to the new generation by eliminating all absolutes. They are saying that we can no longer proclaim absolute truth. Truth is now said to be subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Needless to say, this is producing a Christian faith void of doctrine but full of confusion. Tolerance and acceptance of other faiths is now firmly established within Christianity. We are called to be tolerent of everything except absolute truth. This tolerance is being used as a platform for unity with the Roman Catholic Church. Some evangelicals would rather have a counterfeit unity based on tolerance than authentic spiritual unity based on truth. Anyone who stands in their way is labeled divisive or troublesome.

Warnings Are Being Ignored

There are numerous warnings in Scripture that tell us the church will be bombarded with perverse teachings, empty philosophy; vain deceit, speculations, lying spirits, worldly fables, false knowledge, doctrines of demons, destructive heresies, myths, falsehoods, traditions of men and worldly wisdom. Jesus and Paul warned of false prophets who would come in as wolves in sheep's clothing not sparing the flock (Mat. 7:15; Acts 20:29). We must do as Jesus and the apostles did and warn Christians of these destructive influences which are weakening the church and bringing shame to the precious name of our Savior!

Spiritual Immaturity

When sound doctrine is replaced with shallow teaching made up of humorous stories and opinions, you will find spiritual ignorance and biblical illiteracy in the pew. New babes in Christ will have difficulty growing in the grace and knowledge of their Savior when pastors do not preach the whole counsel of God. When the Word of God is not being faithfully taught, people will not hear truth. And if they don't hear truth, they will be unable to discern God's way from man's way, truth from error and right from wrong. We must all become more and more discerning because no man is infallible and no preacher is beyond the possibility of doctrinal error. We must always be ready to reject what is false and hold fast to what is true. As disciples of Jesus we must be known for what we're, for as well as what we're against.
It seems as though concerns over carnal things and affairs of the world are taking precedence over strengthening the body of Christ with spiritual truths these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MatthewG

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
2,428
3,476
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Honestly @Johann anyone that has to gain a following by speaking against other churches instead of presenting his doctrine by itself is clearly driven by the hate mechanism. You can see this easily in social interactions, like when someone gossips about someone to their friends, making that someone look bad to build themselves up in the eyes of their audience. I don't follow people like that. Hmmm?
A church that doesn't examine itself is like an individual believer that doesn't examine themself. We are told to rebuke, reprove, exhort with all longsuffering. As long as it's done in the right spirit. And one reason the church at large is losing its way in our time, is precisely because it has become too soft and politically correct to examine, reprove, rebuke and exhort and correct itself any more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MatthewG

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
A church that doesn't examine itself is like an individual believer that doesn't examine themself. We are told to rebuke, reprove, exhort with all longsuffering. As long as it's done in the right spirit. And one reason the church at large is losing its way in our time, is precisely because it has become too soft and politically correct to examine, reprove, rebuke and exhort and correct itself any more.
This has nothing to do with a church correcting itself. It has to do with whether or not Catholics are following false doctrine. I have not heard one argument here that couldn't be addressed. I don't see anything from the man that is in the videos other than accusations and fear preaching using damnation as a threat.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
2,428
3,476
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This has nothing to do with a church correcting itself. It has to do with whether or not Catholics are following false doctrine. I have not heard one argument here that couldn't be addressed. I don't see anything from the man that is in the videos other than accusations and fear preaching using damnation as a threat.
Since the Catholic Church claims to be Christian and following Christ they are not exempt from being examined, reproved, exhorted and corrected. As we're also admonished to test everything and test the spirits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MatthewG

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Disappearing Doctrines
Written by Mike Gendron....
I read thru it, and can see some error in his interpretation of scripture first off.

Second he is attempting to say that the teachers of the Catholic church and the Anglican church are the doctrines of the devil. He uses the words "mouthpiece for Satan". Which is meant to shock the reader to fear away from those churches. Building himself up and tearing other people down to the reader.

Third he makes the claim that the Catholic and Anglican churches are befriending the world and becoming the enemy of God. The Catholic church has made stance against homosexuality and in turn not allow homosexuals to adopt. They have been denied state assistance because of it. Now I haven't followed the Anglican church, but he makes the first statement: "This newsletter is often used to correct the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church but in this issue we will address the disappearing doctrine of the Evangelical Church." So it applies to Catholic also. He uses the statement that those churches are "wooing the world" to gain their following. I think this is a form of hate towards sinners. Jesus preached to the sinners. And I feel they should be included in church so that they can be preached to. I'm sure they are given a bible and told to read it so they will get the warnings for sin. And probably get them in church as well. I know I've heard the warnings in Catholic Mass since I've watched it for over a year now daily. But sinners can only tolerate milk and not meat. The bible makes that clear. Mike Gendron is denying that fact to make his claim.

Forth he appears to be against Pastors befriending the congregation. And counselling for their physical and emotional needs. The bible spells out that Jesus is the great counsellor and physician. It is clear that Jesus will deal with our physical needs since he will resurrect our bodies back to life. So I really don't see his point and find it damaging to the congregations physical and emotional welfare. Hmmm

Fifth he appears to say that people will not be taught correctly unless they follow his teachings. As if anyone with a bible cannot find the truth. This appears to be another attempt to coerce people into following him.

My assessment is that Mike Gendron preaches fear of hell to capture his audience while attacking other denominations operations in an attempt to coerce people. I think it's driven by disgust of sinners. I can see he needs to be taught instead of attempting to be the teacher.
 

Johann

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2022
8,588
4,871
113
63
Durban South Africa
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
I read thru it, and can see some error in his interpretation of scripture first off.

Second he is attempting to say that the teachers of the Catholic church and the Anglican church are the doctrines of the devil. He uses the words "mouthpiece for Satan". Which is meant to shock the reader to fear away from those churches. Building himself up and tearing other people down to the reader.

Third he makes the claim that the Catholic and Anglican churches are befriending the world and becoming the enemy of God. The Catholic church has made stance against homosexuality and in turn not allow homosexuals to adopt. They have been denied state assistance because of it. Now I haven't followed the Anglican church, but he makes the first statement: "This newsletter is often used to correct the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church but in this issue we will address the disappearing doctrine of the Evangelical Church." So it applies to Catholic also. He uses the statement that those churches are "wooing the world" to gain their following. I think this is a form of hate towards sinners. Jesus preached to the sinners. And I feel they should be included in church so that they can be preached to. I'm sure they are given a bible and told to read it so they will get the warnings for sin. And probably get them in church as well. I know I've heard the warnings in Catholic Mass since I've watched it for over a year now daily. But sinners can only tolerate milk and not meat. The bible makes that clear. Mike Gendron is denying that fact to make his claim.

Forth he appears to be against Pastors befriending the congregation. And counselling for their physical and emotional needs. The bible spells out that Jesus is the great counsellor and physician. It is clear that Jesus will deal with our physical needs since he will resurrect our bodies back to life. So I really don't see his point and find it damaging to the congregations physical and emotional welfare. Hmmm

Fifth he appears to say that people will not be taught correctly unless they follow his teachings. As if anyone with a bible cannot find the truth. This appears to be another attempt to coerce people into following him.

My assessment is that Mike Gendron preaches fear of hell to capture his audience while attacking other denominations operations in an attempt to coerce people. I think it's driven by disgust of sinners. I can see he needs to be taught instead of attempting to be the teacher.
Great! you can be "his teacher"

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 KJV
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

NASB "Do not be bound together with unbelievers"
NKJV "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers"
NRSV "Do not be mismatched with unbelievers"
TEV "Do not try to work together as equals with unbelievers"
NJB "Do not harness yourselves in an equal team with unbelievers"

Paul often uses OT agricultural quotes to illustrate Christian truths (cf. 1 Cor. 9:9; 1 Tim. 5:18) to reflect Deut. 22:10. It is a present imperative with the negative particle, which implies "they were forming" these inappropriate, intimate, interpersonal relationships with unbelievers.

The Greek term is a compound of "yoked" (zugeô) and "another of a different kind" (heteros, i.e., different kinds of animals).

This verse has been proof-texted in relation to believers marrying unbelievers.

However, this text does not seem to be dealing with marriage specifically, although that is surely included in this broader statement. Believers must restrict their most intimate, personal relationships to fellow believers. This helps us fight the pull of fallen culture away from Christ. Faith in Jesus and the indwelling Spirit have caused a sharp and deep cleavage within families, businesses, hobbies, amusements, even churches.

One must take into account passages like 1 Cor. 5:9-13; 7:12-16; 10:27 to get the theological balance of this truth. We must remember the wickedness of first century pagan culture. This is not an affirmation of monastic living, but an attempt to reduce intimate personal relationship with the fallen world system (cf. 1 John 2:15-17).


Reason why I don't want to engage with you is your evasiveness-not transparent-attacking the messenger.
Thanks
J.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,519
17,179
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OK, well the word unbeliever refers to a denier of Jesus as the Messiah or an athiest. OK @Johann. If you didn't want to discuss with the members like myself, then perhaps you shouldn't have posted Catholic and Anglican attacks in the OP's quote. Any attempt to silence the opposition is not in concert with honest discussion.

I did a little research on the organization the Mike Gendron belongs to and what their background is:

History​

Philip Powell left the Australian Assemblies of God in 1992, believing that the church was preaching false doctrines and supporting false prophets and teachers. After his departure from the AOG, Powell became associated with others, who have come to similar conclusions. Philip with his wife, Kathleen launched Christian Witness Ministries in 1994, and began to publish a quarterly magazine entitled Contending EARNESTLY for THE Faith (CETF) out of Hamilton, New Zealand. There are now clearing offices in Australia and the UK as well as in New Zealand. The magazine is now published from Brisbane, Australia. Christian Witness Ministries - Wikipedia