Disconcerting news) I've heard the Apostle Paul was false...

[Proverbs Dove]

And not a true Disciple of Christ?

That he was the 13th Disciple who never actually new Jesus while he was here on earth. And as he relates his mission on the road to Damascus and his encounter with a light and voice proclaiming itself the ascended master Jesus, that it was actually the power of the lord of earth Satan speaking to him.

The intent being to lead a man who persecuted early people of "the way" to believe through his (Satan's) wiles that he was Jesus. Because Paul being the adversary already to the teachings, would not have known any better. And this was the best vehicle by which Satan could lead people away from God, as his intentions always were and remain, by guiding a man opposed to the way in the beginning to serving his purposes by ministering his spirit to the unsuspecting.

Being Satan is the adversary or antithesis of God and Jesus' grace. And in this way his influence upon Paul as he pretended to be "the lord" (which was true as far as being the lord of the earth and not actually the Lord Christ) , would help to communicate through that emissary and thus false prophet a message that would result in people accepting on faith a doctrine that conflicted with that of the living Jesus and send people to Hell.

This is new to me so I had to ask more learned people who may have heard about this. It's disturbing to say the least. Especially if it's true that Paul's writings comprise most of the new testament of Christ!

I've searched the net seeking through various terms answers to my inquiry. While this is all new to me it certainly isn't in matters of online chatter about the very topic. i.e. Paul the false apostle. Paul the antichrist. Paul the Jew and Roman who was appointed to lead gentiles astray.
Questions like, why in all the Bible isn't there a "Book of Yeshua", as there are credited books authored by his Disciples. And why not him?

All these topics and queries abound on the net. So it's not new there at least. But for me I don't think there's enough time in a day to spare outside my personal responsibilities so as to let me peruse all that's available on this new topic.

It sounds weak and childish perhaps but it put a fright into me.

Has anyone heard anything like unto what I've share here?
What are your thoughts?
Is it odd that the man who didn't actually walk with Jesus while he was on earth is the foremost contributor to the new testament Christ was to deliver to the world?

Thank you for reading this rather long post. It came to mind to ask now as I'm rather new in the start of my journey with the Lord and hoping to find my way into discerning the voice of the Holy Spirit in my daily life. And now this confusion has dropped before my feet and since I don't know a lot about the bones of the matter, I wonder what I can trust as I pursue my goal in being more attuned to God's voice.
I realize I'm rambling now. The more I write the more comes to mind. I'll put a sock in it and hope for the best.

 

[Rex]

You go and pull out of your bible the letters of Paul as well as blotting him out in Acts your not going to have much left of the NT.


It certainly sounds as though you've been listening to the wrong advice. I suspect your a new Christian and just beginning to feel your way around.
Is that true?

 

[MTPockets]

Hi! 'Proverbs Dove'
You wrote: "I've heard the Apostle Paul was false".
So, what else is new?
This is not anything near "disconcerting news"; nor is it something to be alarmed about.
When yuh think about it, the Jews abandon any idea of Jesus being the Messiah and, by so doing, dismiss the entire New Testament writings. Then we also have the wackos and the deceived and the misled too. These all have some argument against all or portions of the Scripture.
Ummm, there was the original "chosen" twelve Apostles, yes.
But nowhere do I read in the Bible about a 'thirteenth disciple'.
Actually, you yourself and everyone else who proclaims to be a follower of Jesus are also 'disciples'.
After so long time has passed since Jesus' resurrection, there must be a two 'billionth and thirteenth disciple' somewhere among us ... or thereabouts.
'Proverbs Dove", I remind you of the following verse from Proverbs, "Those too lazy to plow in the right season will have no food at the harvest", (Prov 20:4).
I suggest that you "Pray to the Lord who is in charge of the harvest; ask him to send more workers into his fields", (Matt 9:38), so that there might be billions of more 'disciples' to come forth to glory like Paul.

 

[Rex]

First accept the fact that Paul was commissioned by the risen Lord Himself and then work on the Disciple question and or problem.
Acts 9:15

Something else; your going to be discerning truth from fiction for the rest of your life, with that said, move on to learning that you may be made complete.
There are lots of fine people here that I hope will teach you to discern instead of telling you what is and what is not.
The latter is sure fire way to lose being set free from sin and turned back to bondage under others. .


All of the learning will avale you nothing unless the Lord has began a work in you.
In that I pray you have received the Holy Spirit. If your unsure then the path to enlightenment in Christ is the same.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:17
For by grace threw faith we are saved
Eph 2:8
The faith part is your responsibility, you want more faith read the word of God "the bible"

I not being disrespectful
but wondering around asking about the best church AKA where God, Jesus can be found scares me to death for your sake.

 

[Proverbs Dove]

Firstly I'd like to correct the first sentence in my OP. "That he was the 13th Disciple who never actually new Jesus while he was here on earth." "new" in that sentence should obviously have read, "knew". I can't even believe I wrote that.
Just a peeve of mine.

You go and pull out of your bible the letters of Paul as well as blotting him out in Acts your not going to have much left of the NT.


It certainly sounds as though you've been listening to the wrong advice. I suspect your a new Christian and just beginning to feel your way around.
Is that true?

Now to continue.
Yes, I'm new to the study.
I realized when I heard about Paul being responsible for almost all of the new testament, 2/3rds I think?, that that would leave only about five or so books that were non-Pauline.

Which of course only lent itself in that realization to further confusion on the matter at hand.

I use the NRSV so it was rather interesting to think of all 66 books there were only five in the new testament that could relate to the real Jesus ministry. Making for 44 books in total to relate to as the words of God. And omitting those seeming 22 Pauline texts that were said to be inspired by the adversary.

How is it, while we're at this, that Paul is the foremost contributor to the new testament? To my understanding, limited and new as that is, he himself said he didn't know the living Jesus. So how is it that 12 apostles who did walk with Christ are not the most referenced sources for what was actually their personal knowledge of his words?

Did the canon process have something to do with omitting the first hand eyewitness accounts that they would have provided?


I write this and feel like a total idiot. God help me. I have no idea I'm just trying to make the right steps on this new found faith and I don't want to be made a fool by being misled.

Thank you all for your patience.

 

[Rex]

How is it, while we're at this, that Paul is the foremost contributor to the new testament? To my understanding, limited and new as that is, he himself said he didn't know the living Jesus. So how is it that 12 apostles who did walk with Christ are not the most referenced sources for what was actually their personal knowledge of his words?

Did the canon process have something to do with omitting the first hand eyewitness accounts that they would have provided?


I write this and feel like a total idiot. God help me. I have no idea I'm just trying to make the right steps on this new found faith and I don't want to be made a fool by being misled.

Thank you all for your patience.

Salvation is from the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. This is in keeping with the promise to Abraham

Gen 22 red = what would become the 12 tribes of the Jews then to the nations of the earth Gentiles

15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.” 19 So Abraham returned to his young men, and they rose and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba.

Matthew 15:24
Jesus came to the Jews first. He had 12 disciples ect just as 12 tribes of Jacob or Israel

After Jesus arose from the cross in His glorified state being seated at the right hand of the Father. He called to Paul to now take the message of salvation that was offered to the Jews first and take it to all the nations Gentiles. Act chapter 9 tells us the story of Pauls conversion from killing Christians to becoming the ambassador "chosen vessel" of Christ to the Gentiles. Acts 9:15

It become important to understand this, when Jesus was speaking to the Jews VS the completed message to the Gentiles that Paul delivered.
They are the same, but each delivered to different audience. Jesus never taught the Gentiles. But came for Israel the Jews.

There is more but that's an outline.


So threw Abraham's seed all the nations of the earth will be blessed. Acts 9:15


Abraham's seed latter became Israel, Israel was first a single man then from this man came a nation of 12 tribes Jacobs sons became Israel the nation.

 

[Proverbs Dove]

Why would Jesus who the Bible said came to take the sin of the world upon himself on the cross, not come for the Gentiles in that mission as well?
And didn't Jesus in scripture warn against those who came in his name and ministered in that authority and performed miracles after he had ascended? False prophets? Wouldn't that then be Paul? As in one who was a prophet saying Jesus sent him with his own message and after Jesus ascended?

I really appreciate your insight. I'm learning a great deal here.

 

[mark s]

The early church and the Apostles considered Paul to be a true Christian, so I think it's safe for me to think so also.

 

[Rex]

Why would Jesus who the Bible said came to take the sin of the world upon himself on the cross, not come for the Gentiles in that mission as well?

He did but that package to the Gentiles wasn't delivered until Peter and Paul has receive the message to now take it to the Gentiles.
Peters message is seen in Acts chapter 10

May I suggest that you keep in mind what we have spoken about and you go read Acts from chapter 7 to 10.


Salvation is from the Jews and then to the Gentiles.


God made promises to the Jews "Israel" and as a chosen people in charge of delivering this message of salvation they where to partake of this gift first then the nations of the world


That is just what the bible shows




FYI just in case you don't already know Saul is Paul

How is it, while we're at this, that Paul is the foremost contributor to the new testament? To my understanding, limited and new as that is, he himself said he didn't know the living Jesus. So how is it that 12 apostles who did walk with Christ are not the most referenced sources for what was actually their personal knowledge of his words?

Paul primarily, threw divine intervention interpreted the full meaning of salvation in Christ, what really happened at the cross and what it really meant for all mankind. Paul was educated to highest standards of the day, he knew the OT forward and backwards he was a walking OT encyclopedia, but all of that information was useless until Jesus opened his eyes. Then all of those tools in Paul's head "the OT" went to work for the truth. You see knowledge isn't the key, the key is being born again, becoming a new creature in Christ.

God had to deliver His message to the Jews in a slightly different fashion He had to retrain teach that all the laws and sacrifices that God made under the old covenant were coming to an end. John the baptist prepared the way John baptized Jews, in preparation to receive this new covenant, the New Testament.
Besides the completed work of Jesus the most important thing to note is the gift of the Holy Spirit. The old Prophet Jeremiah and Ezekiel wrote about this new covenant and it comes with the most important gift. That is the Holy Spirit and I hope you see that in Acts. Those that believe John and receive his baptism were prepared to receive the gift of the new covenant the "Holy Spirit". But the Gentiles received it by "hearing" I hope you read that in Acts when Peter spoke to Cornelius's house hold.

In short and the point I wanted to make is Paul also helped teach the Jews the full meaning of the New Covenant, but his prime mission was to all the Gentiles " everyone" every king and nation outside of the Nation of Israel. In the same vein what Jesus taught the Jews also applies to us as well. I certain that the Gentiles heard Jesus and knew in their hearts that this is the Messiah but the poring out of the Holy Spirit to them came after the HS was pored out first to Israel.

Heres the promise from Jeremiah 31
The prophesy of the passing away of the old covenant "Jesus fulfilled its requirements of keeping the Law"
And the new covenant, that by believing threw faith on Jesus we receive it.

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


That was short lived
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I hope you find your way read your bible and discern the truth in the light of the Holy Spirit